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climber_trev
Apr 26, 2002, 12:58 PM
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The way i look at climbing is there is 3 fundamental aspects of being successful at climbing Pysical, Technical and Mental. Generally on this site i find people are mainly concerned about the physical and to a lesser extent technical aspects. I personally have a different view on how the process of climbing imporvement occurs, i think the mental aspect is the most important and has a domino effect on the other aspects. the mental aspect involves determination, self-confidence and a sound logical thought process under stressful situations, this means persistanceand self belief in one's own ability. this in turn directly affects the climbers technical aspect, thus encouraging him/her to experiment with new moves, mastering others and breeding more confidence and enjoyment on the rock. Finally more enjoyment, better technique leads the climber to climb more often and harder which as we all know increases our physical strength and endurance, thus completing the full circle.
this is why i feel the training / development of a climbers mental well - being will reap larger rewards on the rock in both the short term and long term. this is not to say physical training like pull ups or deadhangs are not useful or benifical, the point of this is to open new avenues for possible training for climbers.
I strongly feel that strong fingers, lats etc are simply an outcome to the overall picture. this is why when people ask what is the fastest and best way to be physically strong for climbing the answer is most often go climbing more.
any thought on this topic?
Thanks
climber_trev
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findaway
Apr 26, 2002, 1:09 PM
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I'm totally with you on the importance of having a good mental game when climbing. Of course I will acknowledge that you do need to have a certain degree of tendon strength to climb a higher levels, and employing the correct technique certainly helps.
But I think what seperates the good climberers from the great is that absolute refusal to come off. The body is physically capable of doing just about any climb you can concieve of, the hard part is accessing the abilities we have and refusing to accept limitations. That is where the mentality of climbing comes in.
Paul
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legsforarms
Apr 26, 2002, 1:18 PM
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I also agree with the initial thread post.
In addition, I feel that a large part of climbing is learning how to relax the unused muscles during a move, or series of moves. Many new climbers attempt to ascend a route with every muscle in their bodies’ tense, which makes a route very challenging. As climbers become more comfortable I have noticed that they learn [probably] to relax better. Think about a difficult red point – did you really get stronger? Most likely you were relaxed - much more than your first attempt.
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roclymber
Apr 26, 2002, 2:35 PM
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Mental training in climbing (any form) I believe is important, but not the most important for sure. Here is what I believe would be the correct order of how climbers should address their climbing abilities:
1. Technique. This has to be by far the most important aspect of climbing. Raw strength gets you no where real fast. Train this aspect the most and for the longest.
2. Then here would come the mental aspect. Still more important than the strenght/physical aspect because it is amazing what the mind can do, and if your convinced you can do a certain route or problem, you will have no problem at all completing your goal.
3. Physical/Strength, third as the most important, isn't far behind from the mental, and technique training. In the end, your physical ability is what everything counts on.
In all honesty, there shouldn't be a ranking at all, and a climber should train each effectively at once together, and with a relationship to another. Combine these three together to achieve Flow.
Have fun,
matt
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qacwac
Apr 26, 2002, 2:35 PM
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Mental's huge but if you can't hold the rock then you can't climb. And starting out the majority of people aren't physically able to hold on to a micro crimp. Therefore no matter how relaxed they are, they'll never do a route that requires holding micro crimps until their contact strength goes up. So while I agree mental is very important and it is often totally untrained, contact strength is the most essential.
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climber1
Apr 26, 2002, 7:53 PM
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I believe that the mental part is 75% of climbing. probably higher if leading. you can be in excellent shape,but if your head isn't into it your climbing suffers.
Mental: 75% or more
Technique:15%
Physical condition:10%
IMO
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wetrocks
Apr 26, 2002, 8:25 PM
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Dragons.....mental dragons. Overcoming a route physically is not usually the challenge. Believing I can send the route is my largest obstacle.
Even if my body is in top shape....I won't climb at my best unless I'm mentally relaxed and in Zen mode. If my thoughts come apart I come off the rock.
When people start to climb their bodies often limit their performance, but after a short time their self confidence often sets the bar.
If your brain is into the climb you'll have open eyes and be creative. No amount of strength can make up for this.
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findaway
Apr 26, 2002, 8:44 PM
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Just think about this. Even the weakest of climbers are physically capable of climbing something i.e. a twenty foot top rope with huge jugs and ledges. However if someone can do thirty one arm chin ups you still don't know what being on the rock will do to them. They might sieze up and refuse to climb more than six feet. I've seen this, anyone who has belayed at a birthday party probably has.
The physical aspect determines what you are capable of climbing. The mental aspect determines both what you are capable of climbing and if you can climb at all. That's why I consider it the most important.
Extreme example I know but it makes a point.
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rockjunkie
Apr 26, 2002, 9:36 PM
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I must agree with most of you that technique and mental aility are by far more important than physical ability. Although pthe physical aspect is very important as well. I think that in most of the forums it seems like people only care about physical strength training because that is all most people discuss. I think it's because methods of improving physical strength are easier to describe on a computer than mental and technique training.
What I mean is if yu try to describe an exercise, people will most likely know what you're talking about. If you try to explain a certain aspect of technique it is hard to describe in a way that people can understand without being shown. You know what I mean?
I think that the majority of climbers find that technique and mental ability are far more valuable than physical strength. But PHYSICAL STRENGTH IS STILL VERY IMPORTANT.
Peace and happy climbing
~tommy
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qacwac
Apr 26, 2002, 10:41 PM
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From personal experience I have done stuff that I didn't think I could do. I did NOT have the right mindset but I still did the route. I have also not done stuff that I thought I could do. I had the right mindset(maybe) and I still didn't do the route. My thinking I can or cannot do the route is not the determining factor. If I don't do the route or problem it's because I'm either to tired (physical problem) or the holds are too small for me to hold (physical problem). If I do a route or problem it's not because I was in the right mindset but because I could hold on to the holds and do the sequence of moves.
I am beginning to think I may differ from most people in this. My body performs about the same whether I'm serious, joking, anxious or whatever. So for me if I want to improve I don't need to try harder or be more serious but increase the performance level of my body.
Would most of you all say that to climb well you have to be in some mental climbing mode.
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tyger
May 3, 2002, 11:07 AM
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In my opinion all three are very important. And the key thing to all three (just like everything in life) is balance. No one aspect is more or less important than the other.
I think once you have got all three balanced, well Spiderman would have nothing on you.
Tyger! tyger! Burning bright.
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climbracer
May 3, 2002, 11:31 AM
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I agree! It takes mental, physical and technique to improve at rock climbing. If I'm off in one of these three my climbing is not up to my full capabilities. If I'm having trouble and my B/F says to me "you want to come down" I usually go up. Physically I need to work out with some weights and at the rock gym to keep my muscles and tendons strong. If I slack off with physical training, my climbing ability goes downhill. If I can't crimp, I suffer in technique and the mental as well.
My use of legs is severely lacking right now. I need to work on that. There was an article in the last Rock and Ice magazine about training to get more use of legs. I definitely need to work on this.
Mental, physical, and technique = FLOW
Kathy
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xen_monkey
May 3, 2002, 12:55 PM
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I agree with about the importance of mental and technical training. I think the reason the site tends to focus on physical training tips is because they're so easy to explain. For technique its easier to show someone then to try and explaini it in text. As for mental, I don't know how much there is to explain, visualizing and pre planning are pretty self evident once you've climbed for a while. Maybe there are more advanced mental training you can do. I'm not sure.
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russman
May 3, 2002, 1:53 PM
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A couple of things caught my eyes when I read this. First of all, How many of you know that FLOW is actually taught in Recreation Classes? When I read this and re-read Brogans article, It was liek a light went off in my head. I will have to go and get my old college books and I will describe it in a Recreational Term (not just in reference to climibng) but it is very similar.
Second, the mental aspect is of major importance, but the funny thing is, I don't see any real specific way to train oneself. To increase Physically: workout, train, run. To increase Technique: Work on crimpers, hangboards, jugs, dynos etc. But to work on mental---Tell yourself and convince yoruself you can do it?
To me, this is where I see that everyone has a different way of doing this. For me, I tell and convince myself I can do it. Same thing I do with getting sick (I feel like that is a big mental thing also) I dont get sick and I tell myself I WON'T GET SICK I am strogner than that. Even in the heart of all cold seasons...I don't get sick...never take shots, dont' change diet, nothing, just tell myself I am not goign to cave-in.
This is just my thoughts and my take...I will try to find the FLOW stuff and write about it when I blow the dust off that college book
[ This Message was edited by: russman on 2002-05-03 06:55 ]
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madscientist
May 3, 2002, 2:29 PM
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For most sports, the physical aspect is more important than the mental part. For some climbing it is the other way around. I am no expert, but I believe that people who do hypnosis could teach climbers alot about how to improve the mental part of climbing. Most climbers realize that visualization is very usefull, and people who do hypnosis know how to maximize the effects of visualization. That really is all you do in hypnosis. Thus, I would assume that going to someone who does hypnosis would be a way to train visualization.
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