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indigo_nite
Jun 17, 2004, 10:02 PM
Post #26 of 72
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cpr and intro first aid
while taking a wfr or wafa course has been on my list of todo's, one of the barriers has been the amt of time required off work for the class... (it's about the whole year's vacation)
still might take the wfr class this fall.
I mainly take stuff for cuts/blisters. not a major first aid kit. have disposable gloves, also I need to pick up a cpr mouth protector...
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slobmonster
Jun 17, 2004, 10:51 PM
Post #27 of 72
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Registered: Jul 28, 2003
Posts: 1586
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WFR w/ Heartsaver CPR
my 'Oh Shit Kit' is pretty simple. Roll of tape, some gauze pads, bandaids, tweezers & scissors, moleskin, antibacterial ointment, lighter, safety pin, extra AAA batteries for the Tikka, Vitamin I, Vicodin left over from a rib injury, Benadryl.
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sarcat
Jun 17, 2004, 11:03 PM
Post #28 of 72
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Registered: Jan 22, 2004
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EMT-B. Have been for a year. The SAR team I'm on paid for it and encourages /helps with the continual education certification.
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emtclimber
Jun 17, 2004, 11:22 PM
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Registered: May 26, 2003
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I'm currently working and registered as an EMT in Alberta. which is like being an EMT-Intermediate in the U.S. (I think). So I also have all CPR recerts and BTLS courses updated regularly.
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fenix83
Moderator
Jun 18, 2004, 12:01 AM
Post #30 of 72
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Registered: Feb 23, 2004
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Expired CPR/BLS and first aid, I am getting the WFR in about a month. The kit depends on how far and for how long we are going, and howmany people. Ranges from an ultralight kit with gauze, bandages, tape, ibuprofen and tylenol, to an AMK fundamentals kit.
-F
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lstockett
Jun 18, 2004, 12:04 AM
Post #31 of 72
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Registered: Nov 7, 2003
Posts: 208
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Inadequate. I had a Red Cross first-aid class at work. It was pretty good, as long as you can assume that a call to 911 and 10 minutes will bring an ambulance.
This promises to be a great thread. I look forward to hearing opinions about which classes and certifications are good for climbers, and what the consensus is on the minimum level of training we should all have.
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chalker7
Jun 18, 2004, 3:53 AM
Post #32 of 72
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Registered: Mar 18, 2003
Posts: 317
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EMT-B which is only so good when ur way out or up there but i am currently takin technical rope rescue and high-angle rescue courses which should prove usefull combined with my EMT certs.
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tahoe_rock_master
Jun 18, 2004, 4:28 AM
Post #33 of 72
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Registered: Feb 25, 2004
Posts: 172
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I am a certified lifeguard, so I know basic first aid, CPR, and the heimlich. Basic skills. I keep a knife and a cell phone in my climbing bag for first aid emergencies :D .
Matt
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dirtineye
Jun 18, 2004, 5:19 AM
Post #34 of 72
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Registered: Mar 29, 2003
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whoever (some EMT?) thought you can't pull traction without a store bought traction splint should defiantely take the Wemt upgrade, cause even in the WFR course you are trained to make a traction splint from whatever is on hand.
Wilderness protcol is often different from other training.
Sure some injuries are going to be fatal in the wild but for many there is still a lot you can do. As for AED, BP cuff etc, all that stuff is getting smaller and more affordable and in the case of AED damn near idiot proof as well.
What I want is a back board that is light and portable, along with the 5 other guys to carry it.
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dr_feelgood
Jun 18, 2004, 9:41 AM
Post #35 of 72
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Why in creation would you need an AED in a climbing Aid bag. Or a BP cuff for that matter? The key to Emergency medicine (imho) is improvisation. Climbers like to pack light, as far as excess is concerned. The max list i would take is:
Sam Splint.
4" medical tape or duct tape.
Abdominal dressings(5" x 9") or if you can get them, Military Field dressings.
Cravats
curlex
Gloves
One 1000 mL of Lactated Ringers and IV initiation stuff.
1 14 guage needle.
Band-aids
basic meds(tylenol, Motrin, benadryl, Kayopectate)
A cheap stethescope(maybe)
A knife or trauma snips
With that kit right there, you can stabilize damn near any save-able patient, and most of the items serve more than 1 purpose. The sam splint can be used for extremities fractures, or if need be a c-collar. Medical tape can secure a C-spine patient to something stable for Evac or taping the IV or dressings. Abdominals dressings can be used wherever bleeding needs to be stopped, as padding for a Flail sgement or whatever. Cravats for Tourniquets and slings. Gloves for PPE and to make a flutter valve in the extreme case where you would need to needle decompress(using the 14 guage needle). The Fluid can be used if there is no potable water, or in cases of dehydration, shock, or irrigating a wound or eyes.
Feel free to add anything to my list, as i just pulled it off the top of my head.
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wildduck
Jun 18, 2004, 10:07 AM
Post #36 of 72
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Registered: Nov 12, 2003
Posts: 186
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Basic First Aid training, wound/shock treatment, broken bones and CPR.
I bring my first aid kit whenever i go climb be it outdoors or in the gym. The kit is somewhat inadequete but adequete enough for basic help.
Electonic Thermometer
2x Crepe Bandage
Aspirin
Iodine
2 boxes of hansaplas strips
deep heat rub and ankle support
2x triangular bandage
2x 5' pack of gauze pad/swabs
5x ORS
deltol sterilizer/antiseptic wash liquid
surgical tape
small swiss army knife with tweezers
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dirtineye
Jun 18, 2004, 12:30 PM
Post #37 of 72
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In reply to: Why in creation would you need an AED in a climbing Aid bag. Or a BP cuff for that matter? The key to Emergency medicine (imho) is improvisation.
Well believe it or not, there are such things as expeditions and group trips where you might actually want to have a lot of things. As you well know, Defib is definitive care for certain conditions, and these things will be so portable before long that there will be no reason not to have em.
That being said, I really doubt that a rock climbing first aid kit will ever have one in it hahaha. But someone was wanting a lot of stuff, so I pointed out that one day soon you wil be able to have a lot of what is basically specialized life saving stuff without needing a truck to carry it all.
By the way, in your kit, you didn't include anything to seal your occlusive dressing for that sucking chest wound you mentioned. And I would not exactly call sam splings or military dressing improvisation, but hey I've got a sam in my bag.
Using a crazy creek chair to splint an arm, now that's improvisation. hahahaha.
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boulderqt
Jun 18, 2004, 1:02 PM
Post #38 of 72
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Registered: Aug 11, 2003
Posts: 125
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Hmm... i have current CPR and First aid certifications.... and i carry a basic first aid kit with me when i climb even if it isn't out in the woods
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dr_feelgood
Jun 18, 2004, 1:13 PM
Post #39 of 72
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Registered: Apr 6, 2004
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In reply to: In reply to: Why in creation would you need an AED in a climbing Aid bag. Or a BP cuff for that matter? The key to Emergency medicine (imho) is improvisation. That being said, I really doubt that a rock climbing first aid kit will ever have one in it hahaha. But someone was wanting a lot of stuff, so I pointed out that one day soon you wil be able to have a lot of what is basically specialized life saving stuff without needing a truck to carry it all. By the way, in your kit, you didn't include anything to seal your occlusive dressing for that sucking chest wound you mentioned. And I would not exactly call sam splings or military dressing improvisation, but hey I've got a sam in my bag. Using a crazy creek chair to splint an arm, now that's improvisation. hahahaha.
I have two things in my kit. 1 being the wrapper to either the field dressing or another piece of plastic from the other stuff. Or using the cut finger of the glove to make a flutter valve in a case where you need to decompress. I am not going to likely throw in a ashermann's or anything else. Like i said, improvisation... use the bag from your chalk....
No, a sam splint isn't improvisation... but it is versatile and lightweight.
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dirtineye
Jun 18, 2004, 1:40 PM
Post #40 of 72
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Maybe that plastic is thin enough to self seal, but we were told you might need something to use as a sealant, like an antibiotic cream for instance.
I've never done one and hope I never have to, so I really don't know just how well those flap valves self seal.
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granitegod
Jun 18, 2004, 2:38 PM
Post #41 of 72
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Registered: Jan 21, 2003
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RN with 18 months ER experience (level 1 trauma center), with 9 yrs of EMT-B, working as a full-time ski patroller before that.
AED? Sucking chest wound flapper valve? Get real. ABCC's are all you need to worry about in the outdoors.
A- airway. B= Breathing , C = circulation, C = c-spine.
Immobilize, stabilize, abc's, and get help!
The only time I carry a first aid kit is in the backcountry, and it is VERY basic.
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jajohnst
Jun 18, 2004, 3:49 PM
Post #42 of 72
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Registered: Apr 5, 2003
Posts: 36
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Basic Red Cross Adult First Aid and AED training, recertified every year as I am a first responder at work.
I carry a basic first aid kit. Have thought about getting an AED to keep in the car, just in case. My company sells them and I can get it half off but its still expensive and I haven't convinced myself it's worth it. As the family/friends get older it's becoming more of a concern. (Anyone out there carry one in their car?)
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dirtineye
Jun 18, 2004, 4:08 PM
Post #43 of 72
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In reply to: RN with 18 months ER experience (level 1 trauma center), with 9 yrs of EMT-B, working as a full-time ski patroller before that. AED? Sucking chest wound flapper valve? Get real. ABCC's are all you need to worry about in the outdoors. A- airway. B= Breathing , C = circulation, C = c-spine. Immobilize, stabilize, abc's, and get help! The only time I carry a first aid kit is in the backcountry, and it is VERY basic.
The WMA, SOLO and other groups don't agree with you That ABCDE are all you need to worry about in the outdopors. The wilderness standard of care was created by doctors. This standard of care must be met by those trained to give it. Part of the standard is indeed to get help, but there is a lot more that can be done that just ABCDE.
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rwaltermyer
Jun 18, 2004, 4:18 PM
Post #44 of 72
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Registered: Aug 10, 2001
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Once upon a time I had CPR. I'm hoping "it comes back when you need it", as they say. Hopefully, I'll never need it. Also, an east coaster.
Good thread! Certainly, a good reminder.
Like its been said, I think the same seriousness should be asked about beginners' rescue training.
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timstich
Jun 18, 2004, 4:36 PM
Post #45 of 72
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I had a medical emergency training segment with a cave rescue training course. Took a CPR refresher course at work last year. I also have read an emergency medicine manual that was created for EMTs. Everyone should stock the home library with that. Got a SAM splint and first aid kit in the pack at all times.
You guys are forgetting a big, flat rock to resolve the situation should it go sour. This is really where improvisation comes in handy, as rocks need not be packing in. That space in the pack should be reserved for beer.
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dirtineye
Jun 18, 2004, 5:30 PM
Post #46 of 72
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In reply to: I had a medical emergency training segment with a cave rescue training course. Took a CPR refresher course at work last year. I also have read an emergency medicine manual that was created for EMTs. Everyone should stock the home library with that. Got a SAM splint and first aid kit in the pack at all times. You guys are forgetting a big, flat rock to resolve the situation should it go sour. This is really where improvisation comes in handy, as rocks need not be packing in. That space in the pack should be reserved for beer.
Sorry tim, Flatrocking is below the WFR standard of care.
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celticelement
Jun 18, 2004, 6:05 PM
Post #47 of 72
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Registered: Dec 14, 2002
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I was trained repetitively in basic First Aid while in the Boy Scouts. I am not sure how much I would remember if I ever did need it. I also have taken a couple of CPR classes. Still, thinking about trying to give CPR scares me. I hope I never encounter a situation that calls for it. Likely the most useful part of my training was just realizing that a lot of a serious situations can be controlled by just doing what makes sense (stop bleeding, control shock, immobilize fractures, etc.) and really only requires a person to just find a way to do what they know needs to be done.
I do hope to be able to take a WFR course some time. But that will have to wait.
I commonly carry a first aid/survival kit around with me. It has a dedicated space in all my packs and stays in my vehicle if it is not in my pack. One thing I learned to have when traveling (3 of my boy scout years were in Belgium, and we traveled) internationally - especially in poorer countries - is a hyperemic needle. Often in poorer hospitals around the world needles are reused. If you were injured and taken to the local hospital it was good to have a clean needle to let the doctor use on you instead of take a chance that he might reuse one.
It is nice to know that many of the climbers out on a given rock will likely have some kind of medical knowledge. Reading the thread and seeing how many people have extensive knowledge is encouraging. I wonder if it would be a practical idea to try to keep a community first aid kit at the highly populated cliffs. It might be good to have good tools available to the trained individuals without them having to carry undue weight every time they go climbing.
Another thought I had while reading the thread: We do have a great means of signaling commonly on us as climbers - lots of brightly colored ropes and cords. Is there a way to signal distress with all the rope available? Maybe a specific pattern, which would not be seen in normal climbing activity, could be agreed upon to show that a climbing party is in trouble and needs help. A 60 meter rope could be made into something easily visible from both the air or ground, the trouble would be getting across the idea of distress to the viewers. (I guess you could hang yourself to show distress, but that would only be for the most dire circumstances - like Vertical Limit 2. :) ) Of course there would still be the problem of accessing the distressed climbers, but that is a different problem.
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off_route
Jun 19, 2004, 1:12 AM
Post #48 of 72
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Registered: May 28, 2004
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In reply to: NREMT-P, and all of the recert-hell that goes with it. (ACLS, BTLS, PALS, PEPP, PBTLS, etc...) It's half of what I do for a living, so I maintain it for that wonderful pay differential. I'll admit, it's fun, too. As far as first aid, I just carry a few basic essentials, tape, cling wrap, kravats. Anything that requires more than that, the state won't let me carry. Which is fine, as I don't wish to haul a medic unit to the cliff's with me. In reply to: What about an acute episode of emesis with marked AMS secondary to ETOH? This is a goofy throw-together of jargon... but, if it DID happen...There's not much that you'd be able to carry with you that would help until the medics arrived anyhow. (Monitor w/ 12 leads, IV access, drug kit, suction, possibly NG tube) And I would certainly hope that it wouldn't happen ON the rock (ETOH).
:D Since I'm not a medic all I could do is hold his/her hair as they puke into the toilet. Definately a likely hazard to climbers, just not while climbing. Speaking of which I'm a little hungover now... :twisted:
Off Route
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off_route
Jun 19, 2004, 1:15 AM
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In reply to: I am surprised no one has laughed at what off_route has said emesis is jargon for vomitting and AMS is Acute Mountain sickness while ETOH is ethanol so what he is trying to say is someone puking from drinking too much!
:lol:
Actually in my part of the world AMS is used for Altered Mental Status which definately happens during the 2nd pitcher. Docs have a bad habit of using abbreviations for multiple (confusing) things though.
Off Route
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gymstud001
Jun 19, 2004, 1:54 AM
Post #50 of 72
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Registered: Mar 2, 2004
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I am a Red Cross Certified lifegaurd trained in firstaid. I also am a scout, which I have been trained on first aid for many years. I just carry the first aid kit which came in my friends car. And my friend is now training to work with the EMS. So I'd say we're pretty safe..... I hope
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