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myjeepisdirty


Jun 29, 2004, 6:21 AM
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Allamuchy permit ...  (North_America: United_States: New_Jersey: Northern_rt_80_and_up: Allamuchy_State_Park)
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How do I obtain a permit for Allamuchy? I've been by there several times and have never seen a ranger to ask. Is there a website or phone number?


peterpan


Jun 29, 2004, 6:28 AM
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This is the biggest joke I ever experienced in my life. Following the phone number posted there I got the documentation from the relevant NJ state department. First they want $ 50 per year per person (so, a family of 4 is an insane $ 200), and then they want you to add them as an insured to your liability insurance policy. Guess what: this is impossible to do. The insurances don't do that. They only add additional insured parties for commercial insurances, but not for private ones. So, I would say I really tried my best and therefore I continue to climb there until someone gets nasty.


Partner nostalgia


Jun 29, 2004, 7:55 AM
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Re: Allamuchy permit ... [In reply to]
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Here's some information I received from John Anderson, AccessNJ
Access Fund New Jersey Regional Coordinator (posted with his permission):

In reply to:
The state of NJ park service is implementing a wavier system
for rock-climbing in nj's state parks. The wavier system does away with
both the fee and the requirement for insurance. There is a lag period as
the state park service finalizes the wavier system.

Let the folks know about this on the internet site you list. I would
hope folks don't get down right uppity on the issue as the lag period is
something that the rangers are aware.
In reply to:
Department of Environmental Protection Commissioner Bradley M.
Campbell has directed that the Division of Parks & Forestry adopt a policy
that would allow for rock climbing without the permittee having to obtain liability insurance, but subject to the climber's signing of a waiver of
liability.

So, it's in progress. In the meantime, try not to piss off the park rangers. ;)

-Joe


Partner wormly81


Jun 29, 2004, 9:20 AM
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Re: Allamuchy permit ... [In reply to]
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Last time I was over at Allamuchy they had a new sign there so I called to see what they expected me to do...

After hearing that I would have to wait a couple months in order to pay 50 dollars and get some sort of insurance I laughed hysterically for a few minutes before going climbing.

Park service is always good for a laugh!

Jeff


woodthrush


Jun 30, 2004, 6:00 AM
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I wonder why they don't just put up signs that say "Climb at your own risk" or something to that degree where they can cover themselves. I saw this at Ralph Stover Park in PA, they have climbers there all the time and no permit system. They put up signs that basically say if you get hurt, it's your own fault. They warn that the place is dangerous and you have to be skilled at climbing. This would work just fine at Allamuchy, I'm sure. I know the Park service is just trying to cover themselves, but they certainly aren't the most efficient...


socialist1


Jun 30, 2004, 7:16 AM
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Re: Allamuchy permit ... [In reply to]
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Ive climbed there without a permit a couple times. I'll bet you will only see a ranger one out of every hundred times you climb there and by the time you have climbed a hundred times there you will be bored out of your mind.

That being said lookout out for the hollow flake on the 10a on the Tic Tac Toe wall (Chin Chaver is the name I think), last time it creeked and grinded so bad I thought my belayer was going to catch it in the head! :shock:


myjeepisdirty


Jun 30, 2004, 7:20 AM
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Thanks for the tip ... I was gonna try that next weekend!


Partner nostalgia


Jun 30, 2004, 7:32 AM
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Re: Allamuchy permit ... [In reply to]
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In reply to:
I'll bet you will only see a ranger one out of every hundred times you climb there and by the time you have climbed a hundred times there you will be bored out of your mind.

I was there once and saw a ranger :) He was nice enough not to give me a citation, at least.

-Joe


mega


Sep 21, 2004, 3:43 PM
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Re: Allamuchy permit ... [In reply to]
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Anybody have an update on Allamuchy access with the Adopt-a-crag day coming up?


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Sep 21, 2004, 8:09 PM
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Yup. The waiver system is in place. You can pick up a waiver at any of the state park offices. You just sign the waiver and you can climb FREE for the year.

Here's the agenda for adopt-a-crag from John Anderson:

the events will start around 9:30 AM each day. if the roadside parking is full park at waterloo village parking lot or at the sussex branch trail and huff on over. consider car-pooling. to get to the crag. rt. 80 to rt. 206 north. rt. 206 north to waterloo road bear left at the traffic light. proceed towards hacketstown. climbing site roadside parking area is found on the right hand side of the road beyond the parking area for the sussex branch trail. if you reach waterloo village, my friend you've gone too far. backtrack to the fence and there the access trails to the climbing area are.

ADOPT-A-CRAG TASK LIST

Goal: Prepare and submit a Master Site Plan and Site Inventory for submission
and evaluation to the NJ State Park Service.


Objectives: Review and evaluate various issues to clean-up the Allamuchy Climbing
Site (AMCS).

Involve local climbers in the preparation of the site master plan.

Select areas of action priority based on site analysis.

Enhance existing site features.

Minimize climbing impact at the AMCS.

Communicate climbing issues through master site plan.

Restore fragile areas impacted by climbers at the AMCS.


Specific Tasks for the Adopt a Crag Weekend


1. Perform Site Inventory

a. Existing trail location (s)
i. survey trails
ii. clean existing trails
iii. other
b. Proposed New Trail (s)
i. id locations
ii. enter onto master site plan
iii. evaluate placement
iv. other
c. Location of Climbing Areas
i. Catergorize
ii. developed
iii. undeveloped
iv. hazards
v. other
d. Location of Parking Areas
i. # of cars
ii. ease of access
iii. mark accordingly
e. Other

2. Mapping of Site

a. Survey
i. Compile a list of features
ii. Emphasize ecological features
iii. Assign category of environmental features
iv. Other
b. Draft Map
i. Analysis of trail issues
ii. Clarify location of climbing sites
iii. Determine fragile ecological areas
iv. Other
c. Evaluate
i. Clarify all issues
d. Final Map
e. Other

3. Site clean-up

a. Existing trails
i. Allamuchy
ii. Stephens
iii. Others
b. Climbing sites
i. Existing
ii. Others
c. Parking Areas
i. Allamuchy
ii. Sussex Branch Trail Head
iii. Natural Area
iv. Other
d. Roadside
i. Allamuchy
ii. Stephens
iii. Hopatcong
iv. Sussex-Branch Trail
v. Other
e. Other

4. Develop and Evaluate Site Master Plan

a. Parking Areas
i. Existing
ii. Others
b. Access Trails
i. Placement of site kiosk
1. primary site location
2. secondary site location
3. types of kiosk
a. K.I.S.S. principles
ii. NJ State Park Signage
iii. Access Signage
iv. Register placement
v. Other
c. Climbing sites
i. Mark and rope off fragile areas
ii. Implement erosion control areas
iii. Identify and screen off cliff-base ecological restoration sites
iv. Other
d. Down climb trails
i. Evaluate for locations
ii. Address hazards
e. Climbing trails
i. Does a new trail need to be addressed or not ?
ii. Clean-up climbing trails

5. Other

end


-Joe


mega


Sep 22, 2004, 6:37 AM
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That is great news that access is now open - who do we owe the pleasure to, the Access Fund?


Partner nostalgia


Sep 22, 2004, 6:48 AM
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In reply to:
That is great news that access is now open - who do we owe the pleasure to, the Access Fund?

Access NJ Climbs

-Joe


woodthrush


Sep 22, 2004, 7:12 AM
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What day is it happening???? I want to get involved, definitely.


Anyone climbing there --- just be careful, last time I was at the main wall (last week), there was a swarm of wasps at the top :shock: That was NOT fun. They prob have a nest up there somewhere in the ground.


peterpan


Sep 22, 2004, 7:15 AM
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Great news indeed to see that the waiver is now in place.
Let me know if some voluntary help is needed to develop and organize the site and access trails.


Partner nostalgia


Sep 22, 2004, 7:22 AM
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In reply to:
What day is it happening???? I want to get involved, definitely.
Anyone climbing there --- just be careful, last time I was at the main wall (last week), there was a swarm of wasps at the top :shock: That was NOT fun. They prob have a nest up there somewhere in the ground.

It's this weekend, the 25th and 26th.

Yea, I found the wasps, too. Got a good sting on my forearm last time I was there :?

-Joe


piton


Sep 27, 2004, 5:50 AM
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i want to know who put 2 bolts on top of the main wall. They will be chopped!


Partner nostalgia


Sep 27, 2004, 6:59 AM
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In reply to:
i want to know who put 2 bolts on top of the main wall. They will be chopped!

Hasn't it been determined that this is generally counterproductive behavior? We don't want to start a bolting/chopping/rebolting war.

http://www.rockclimbing.com/...hlight=bolt+chopping
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...hlight=bolt+chopping

I don't want to lose the access we've so recently gained over this. Why don't we try to find out how the bolts got there, first? Have you talked with John Anderson about it? He may know more. It could have been the people filming some sort of climbing movie/commercial there fairly recently.

I'll shoot John an email and see what I can find.

-Joe


piton


Sep 27, 2004, 8:15 AM
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In reply to:
Hasn't it been determined that this is generally counterproductive behavior? We don't want to start a bolting/chopping/rebolting war.

1) natural protection on either side of the cracks.
2) bolts not sheltered from enviroments. i have placed anchors before and these are in a horrible location.
3) 1" webbing on hangers w/ 2 hollow rapp rings magic x
4) very easy 4th class down climb right next to the bolts


there is No comparison Nastolgia. Maybe if you had more experience you would understand.
say goodbye to the bolts and yes you will never find the spot where they were.


Partner nostalgia


Sep 27, 2004, 8:25 AM
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You've got no right to attack me or my experience. Besides that, you apparently didn't bother to read my post. Never did I say the bolts should be there. I agree that they don't belong. I was just saying you may want to talk to whoever put them there so we don't have to worry about "retaliatory" bolting.

-Joe


piton


Sep 27, 2004, 9:10 AM
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In reply to:
I was just saying you may want to talk to whoever put them there so we don't have to worry about "retaliatory" bolting.

don't you think the people who put these bolts in should have asked around first instead of taking it upon themselfs to put in unnessary bolts.


Partner taino


Sep 27, 2004, 9:27 AM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
I was just saying you may want to talk to whoever put them there so we don't have to worry about "retaliatory" bolting.

don't you think the people who put these bolts in should have asked around first instead of taking it upon themselfs to put in unnessary bolts.

Yes, they should have. Guess what - they're human, and didn't. And so, you're going to gallop in on your high horse and chop the bolts?!

Sounds like you're acting a lot like the folks that put the bolts up in the first place.

Oh, and please - spare me the "if you had more experience, you'd understand" speech. Been there, got the T-shirt. Vanna has some lovely parting gifts for you.

Instead of puffing up your ego to even more dizzying heights, how about you be the better person vs the bolters and try to come up with a solution that doesn't involve escalating things?

Is your name Ken, BTW?

T


piton


Sep 27, 2004, 9:52 AM
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In reply to:
Yes, they should have. Guess what - they're human, and didn't. And so, you're going to gallop in on your high horse and chop the bolts?!

Sounds like you're acting a lot like the folks that put the bolts up in the first place.

Oh, and please - spare me the "if you had more experience, you'd understand" speech. Been there, got the T-shirt. Vanna has some lovely parting gifts for you.

Instead of puffing up your ego to even more dizzying heights, how about you be the better person vs the bolters and try to come up with a solution that doesn't involve escalating things?

Is your name Ken, BTW?

no tanio, names not Ken but i am friends with him. tanio yeah i do have plenty of experience with bolting on rock. also smart guy i did contact the appropriate parties first. know what they said " ripp it out". so if you had a clue which comes with experience you would realize these bolts are not exactly well placed and they are going to come out for the safty of others. just another van bella odrome. so as i ride off on my high horse i will give you the finger.


Partner taino


Sep 27, 2004, 10:11 AM
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In reply to:
i did contact the appropriate parties first. know what they said " ripp it out".

Now, if you'd just said that in the beginning - if it is indeed true - then we wouldn't be exchanging these pleasantries. What do people always omit information, unless they hadn't thought it up already?

In reply to:
so as i ride off on my high horse i will give you the finger.

Thanks, but I'd hate to deprive your horse of the only pleasure it'll get.

T


Partner nostalgia


Sep 27, 2004, 10:30 AM
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Alright, enough of this childishness. It appears the only thing I needed more experience to understand was that it's impossible to have an adult conversation with some people.

Now, can we please either make a new thread b*tching about bolting, or get back on the topic? Thanks.

-Joe


cadaverchris


Sep 28, 2004, 6:55 AM
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hasn't allamuchy had enough bolt chopping?? please, try to consult the community before taking personal actions.

has anyone considered that the bolts could have been put in by the State- and used in the recent NJ outdoorsy commercial?

I've talked to John Anderson (access NJ) and rangers at Stephens/Allamuchy and neither of them know any more about the bolts than we do.

to the bolters credit, that person used high quality hardware, and camoflaged webbing.

although, as we've said, choice of placement and the necessity of placement is poor. there arte cracks for gear and a walkoff.

by the way, i retied the webbing into a sliding X rather than the death V that was there this weekend (9/25/04)

-chris

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