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cam
Aug 11, 2004, 1:27 PM
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Forgive me if this has been asked before but the search function does not seem to be working right now. To what does one tie into when in a sleeping bag on a porta ledge and how is this delt with while IN the bag? Does your tether just come out the bag by your head? Is there a risk of falling off at all? I've never been on one but the question popped into mind.
Thanx, cam.
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areyoumydude
Aug 11, 2004, 6:30 PM
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Clove-hitch around the ankle.
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brutusofwyde
Aug 11, 2004, 7:57 PM
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My wall sleeping bag has a length of 9/16" webbing sewn through the bag. The insede webbing is tied to my harness, the outside is tied to the inside anchor loop of my Bibler Big Wall bivy sack. The outer anchor loop of the bivy sack is connected to the rope.
Or if I'm really hosed from the day's work, I just crawl into the sleeping bag with the rope running by my ear.
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alpinedude
Aug 11, 2004, 8:23 PM
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I can't wait for the day when I sleep on a porta ledge for the first time. It will be such a milestone for me-because all non-climbers think it's so extreme.
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t-dog
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Aug 11, 2004, 8:48 PM
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In reply to: Clove-hitch around the ankle.
But otherwise I would imagine sleeping on a ledge is like sleeping after a long night of hard drinking, you just keep everything on and collapse :shock:
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ricardol
Aug 11, 2004, 8:51 PM
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.. i just stayed tied and ran the line out throught the top of the sleeping bag .. (works fine for fair weather) .. (heck i even kept my harness on the whole time -- not very comfortable!)
.. it is possible to fall out of a ledge i think .. the old style ledges (with 4 suspension points) have a tendency to shift in the night ... i would always spend some time to get it adjusted right and have it be leveled, then i would wake up at 2 am, and the damm thing will have moved to the right or left, and now i was sleeping on a ramp at an angle .. so i think it might be possible to slide off on one end ..
.. or maybe i just used my ledge wrong ..
-- ricardo
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tripperjm
Aug 11, 2004, 9:28 PM
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About 20 years ago when I did the Shield we bivyed under the roof. My partner Charlie, while messing around took a header off his ledge when it capsized. As he fell past the haul he managed to latch on to it and frantically climb back up to the station. He was tied in of course, with slack. I just sat on my ledge and laughed.
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brutusofwyde
Aug 11, 2004, 10:03 PM
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In reply to: .. it is possible to fall out of a ledge i think .. the old style ledges (with 4 suspension points) have a tendency to shift in the night ... i would always spend some time to get it adjusted right and have it be leveled, then i would wake up at 2 am, and the damm thing will have moved to the right or left, and now i was sleeping on a ramp at an angle .. so i think it might be possible to slide off on one end .. .. or maybe i just used my ledge wrong .. -- ricardo
I've been "buried at sea" in various ledge designs. Through these experiences, I have learned the following:
1. Ledges are not designed for use on sloping slabs, A nice, vertical or overhanging wall is best. Pitching on a slab is asking for trouble.
2. Ledges don't stay put when pitched in irregular corners with little roofs or edges sticking out here and there. as you shift your weight, the edges and corners of the ledge are likely to catch on these features, build up tension, then release that tension in unpleasant ways. A nice, smooth wall is best.
3. When standing up, sitting down, unweighting the ledge, or otherwise significantly changing the center of gravity of the ledge, let your partner know beforehand what you will be doing. This gives her time to finish what she is doing, and, for example, put tonight's dinner back in the food bag, before bracing herself.
4. Let your partner know when you have anything laying on the ledge unclipped. Time for both of you to be especially careful about shifting your weight.
5. Always be happy to share the beer, in the spirit of teamwork.
Brutus
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saskclimber
Aug 11, 2004, 10:13 PM
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In reply to: I just sat on my ledge and laughed. |
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ricardol
Aug 12, 2004, 12:25 AM
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In reply to: 4. Let your partner know when you have anything laying on the ledge unclipped. Time for both of you to be especially careful about shifting your weight. Brutus
.. i always take off my shoes when going to bed on a ledge .. clip them both to a sling and clip that to some clip-in point ..
.. one night i was SUPER lucky -- since i forgot to clip in my boots, went to bed, and woke up the next morning, and they were still there! .. everyone who's spent some time on a ledge knows that anything thats not clipped in, is gone! ..
.. i would have been in some serious pain, since this happened when i was bivied under the zorro roofs .. still have quite a few more pitches to the top..
-- ricardo
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fatcatforever
Aug 15, 2004, 4:53 AM
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I remeber using a single point hamock- pissing was a real pain.
got a ledge--could actually stand and piss.
as for being attached and sleeping-- if you can piss
how you are fix to your achors -- who realy cares.
I rolled off in the middle of the night ,just below the great roof once.
should have tied a shorter clove hitch-- wish I had brought my ledge.
water was more important.
:shock:
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holdplease2
Aug 16, 2004, 5:24 PM
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Sleeping on a ledge in your harness is probably safest and best. You can often remove your leg loops for more comfort.
After many days of this, though, you will go nuts and the chafing will be a pain.
I girth hitch a daisy chain around my waist, with a biner clipped in to keep it from cinching me in half if I were to fall out of the ledge while trying to pee or whatever (ahem...whatever) Also, I keep a double length runner attached to this in case I needed it as a foot loop. Hanging by a daisy around your waist from 15 feet of rope...you have to get out of this situation before you suffocate, especially if the daisy scoots up around your ribs when you fall.
Rather than run the tether through the top of the bag, where it can wrap around my neck at night, I now run it up through the bottom of the bag where the zippers come together. Many bags have a zipper you can reverse from this end.
Again, I don't recommend sleeping in anything but the harness or being anything other than redundant. Its a personal choice.
Keep in mind, also, that loose knots can come untied and screw-gate biners can unscrew themselves while you toss and turn. Be totally secure, whatever you do.
The other night I set up my ledge (a metolius bombshelter double) and the inside left corner was ageainst a protrusion in the rock. This caused the ledge to start to "hourglass". In a 2am effort to reduce the hourglassing, I managed to dislocate the "spreader bar" that tensions the bed and helps keep everything in place. As the hourglassing got significantly worse, I realized, that because I am a restless sleeper, it was only a matter of time before the ledge collapsed. So don't have 100% confidence in your ledge, no matter how good it is. Certain rock configurations can throw the whole thing off and create a bad situation. I spent about 20 minuts putting my harness back on and fixing the ledge in a hanging belay. Didn't bother to get dressed, though. ;)
-Kate.
-Kate
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bringmedeath
Aug 22, 2004, 4:56 AM
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pull-ups on the outer bar are a must for morning wake up.
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waynski
Sep 2, 2004, 6:38 AM
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Extreme? My best suggestion is to try and old style hammock first, with no spreaderbars. After that for three days, a portaledge is bliss.
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t-dog
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Sep 23, 2004, 6:55 PM
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From my experiece setting up a ledge on the WFLT, falling asleep is not an issue since I was too worn out to not fall asleep. I kept my harness on for the whole time I was on the wall, and yes, it did rub me the wrong way in uncomfortable places but I wouldn't have taken it off if I was to do it all over again (unless I was doing something where the harness would get in the way, hint hint). Because I mean seriously, you stay tied in so that if you fall, it'll catch you and you won't die. So realistically speaking, would you rather get caught 4 feet below your ledge with a clove around your ankle, a daisy chain around your waist, or a good old harness?
Either way, stay tied in and be redundant, don't become a statistic!!!!
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cjcalls
Sep 23, 2004, 7:46 PM
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In reply to: ...... I kept my harness on for the whole time I was on the wall, and yes, it did rub me the wrong way in uncomfortable places but I wouldn't have taken it off if I was to do it all over again (unless I was doing something where the harness would get in the way, hint hint)....
Trust me you can do it with a harness on.
Well some of us can........
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iamthewallress
Sep 23, 2004, 7:52 PM
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In reply to: So realistically speaking, would you rather get caught 4 feet below your ledge with a clove around your ankle, a daisy chain around your waist, or a good old harness?
I agree...With my girl plumbing I have to bail overboard to pee in the night (my sisters that can do otherwise have my respect...), so I prefer the harness. I sleep better w/ it on too. The bulkier the harness, the less that this is true though.
If I'm on a big natural ledge that I can walk around on, am not about to roll off of, and where I won't need to negotiate a free space pee in the middle of the night, I rig a swami-type dealeo with a web-o-lette.
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mgr
Sep 25, 2004, 3:41 AM
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I always thought of a portoledge as being pretty stable. Oh well, I still can't wait until I do my first big wall.
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lazide
Sep 25, 2004, 7:00 AM
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Depending on the situation, I usually just tie in short to the lead line, and keep a gri-gri sitting around so I can quickly tension if/when I need to get into the bags (some belays you can get into them from the ledge, some you can't), etc. The 12 nights I was solo on mescalito I never took my harness off, and never had any chafing problems (but I have spent a lot of time hanging in harnesses, and it was a Shield).
My hat is off to all those that have the energy to switch around like that - I am usually a bit too worked (and lazy ;)) to bother.
(and no lewd comments kate?! losing your touch ;))
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holdplease2
Sep 25, 2004, 5:46 PM
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Lazide...I will NEVER lose my touch, perhaps you need to work on your attention span. ;)
Re-read the last few lines of my post...and if that isn't lewd, then you aren't good with visualization.
Long Live the Double Bombshelter...
Bong.......bong................bong...boBong............................bong..................................................baklank-booooonnnnnnggggg...........
(long hopeful silence ensues, the spreader bar is almost...)
bong
-Kate.
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lazide
Sep 25, 2004, 7:15 PM
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Bwahaha, I hate that damn spreader bar!!! One morning I was in a huge hurry, and managed to twist the lines all through themselves when I put the ledge up. That evening it took me nearly 30 minutes to get it all sorted out, and IT NEVER SHUT UP :lol:
And don't worry, I wasn't impugning your lascivious lewdness ;)
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holdplease2
Sep 25, 2004, 7:25 PM
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That wasn't the night you climbed P10, was it? Sounded like a goddamn cathedral at the base. Not that I haven't been known to issue a 'call to prayer' every now and again myself... ;)
That sound used to really freak me out in hanging belays, until one night I told myself "thats just the dinner bell, when you get it to stop ringing, you can sit down on the ledge and have dinner." For some reason that works, and I have eliminated my anxiety/anger/fear response to one of the only two things that botther me on a wall that won't kill me. The other is the wind. The line for that is "if you have a windproof belay, the wind is an irrelavent variable." This, of course, is a lie sometimes, but my brain doesn't care.
-Kate.
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ricardol
Sep 25, 2004, 7:30 PM
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nothings beats the sound an A5 ledge makes .. (as far as church sounds go) .. when being put up or taken down ..
.. but then again .. something tells me you guys are discussing a completely different topic .. :-)
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lazide
Sep 25, 2004, 8:24 PM
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Hahaha, that was one time :oops: Until I got the hang of it, the corner pieces kept slipping out (of course banging the spreader bar so everyone knew what a newb I was ;)). One night I was TRASHED, hungry as hell, and of course it was pitch black (and dead silentl), and at a hanging belay. I would get one corner in, flail getting the other one in, and JUST as I got that second one in, it would collapse and start making a racket. Did that like 8 times before I finally figured out the trick, hehe. I was pretty sure I was waking up people in Camp4 with my cussing. The dinner visualization is a good idea - I kept sane by imagining torturing some hapless metolius engineer to death. ;)
The wind is definitely a mind blower - 40+mph gusts are freaky as hell when top stepping on C3. I remember that on P8 or P9 I cut the bags loose, and the wind was so strong it was swinging/dragging my bags 20-30ft every gust. (250+ lbs!) (once it almost made it back to the anchor!)
So, any reason you didn't bring a solar shower? Sounds like you had everything else covered ;)
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climbx
Sep 27, 2004, 6:12 AM
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OK I have never done big wall but i am a very big wannabe ...i guess you take a piss in the mid air hopefully there is no other crew below u ahhaha....but what happens when you want to take a crap?... i have seen online something like a portable toilet /haul bag...do u guys carry something like this or do you put it in a plastic bag and then carry it up to the last pitch? lol...sorry for this question but i just got to know as i am an aspiring big wall climber...thanks.
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