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iridesantacruz
Aug 23, 2004, 9:07 PM
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do you like gri gris? why or why not, and include if u have one/used one
-chris
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jt512
Aug 23, 2004, 9:12 PM
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jt512 moved this thread from General to Gear Heads.
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overlord
Aug 23, 2004, 9:14 PM
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i like it because its autolocking and it thus adds a nice safety bonus.
but its not a device to teach somebody how to belay.
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jstone
Aug 23, 2004, 9:21 PM
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they're great-
when you're driving down the road, not paying attention- you know off in LA LA LAND- just daydreaming away without a care in the world. and then BAM!!!!! and you've just rear-ended a MAC truck.
your car is destroyed, air bags deployed, etc.
but hey- your gri-gri just kept you from smearing your lipstick on the windshield.
see- you don't need a care in the world, or need to pay attention, or need any basic skills for it to work...
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rcaret
Aug 23, 2004, 10:08 PM
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I use a Gri Gri , I think for certain circumstances they are great ,Users do need proper training and they are not fool proof as many people think .
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petsfed
Aug 23, 2004, 10:12 PM
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Makes belaying an unrepentent hangdogger easier. For the redpoint, using an ATC is easier, but if the climber falls, it can get quite uncomfortable very quickly. Also, great for cleaning an aid pitch.
/stuipd splelling erors....
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crimpandgo
Aug 23, 2004, 10:25 PM
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Toprope belay = yes
Lead belay = no
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nmoroder
Aug 23, 2004, 10:29 PM
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In reply to: they're great- when you're driving down the road, not paying attention- you know off in LA LA LAND- just daydreaming away without a care in the world. and then BAM!!!!! and you've just rear-ended a MAC truck. your car is destroyed, air bags deployed, etc. but hey- your gri-gri just kept you from smearing your lipstick on the windshield. see- you don't need a care in the world, or need to pay attention, or need any basic skills for it to work...
Well, not entirely true. You need to pay attention when using a gri-gri because a light fall WILL NOT lock up the device. It can fail. It's nice to know that it might work as a back up, but don't trust your or anyone else's life to the auto-locking properties of the gri-gri. Deaths and serious injuries have resulted from people taking advantage of the gri-gri.
Do a search of the forums; as this topic has come up 492,939,903 times.
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paulraphael
Aug 23, 2004, 10:32 PM
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Hate them!
I think they make sense for certain belay chores: unrepentent hangdoggers, as was mentioned, and aid leaders, who will be at it for hours longer than anyone can pay attention. These are both cases where the belayer is experienced, but wants to chill out.
But gri gris are pushed pretty heavily on beginners, which I think is a mistake. Gyms force people to use them, and a lot of people give them to noobs, on grounds that they're fool proof. but there are problems. First, they are NOT foolproof. They can be rigged wrong, and they can be defeated by people using them wrong. It's happened in gyms: there was a well publicized story of someone grabbing onto the strand of rope going to the climber (a not too well thought out panic reaction). the result was the gri gri not catching, the climber decking, and the belayer being rushed to the hospital with hideous rope burns.
Considering that it's not in fact fool proof in the hands of beginners (or fools), I'd rather see newbies getting instruction and exprience with a normal belay device. I don't like the idea of taking someone to the crags who's only had gri gri experience in the gym. Makes me nervous.
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crimpandgo
Aug 23, 2004, 10:56 PM
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Do folks really just hand a gri-gri to a nOOb and say "have at it"?
gri gris can serve a valuable purpose of providing a back up should something happen to your belayer irregardless of their experience level.
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wonder1978
Aug 23, 2004, 11:38 PM
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I've been having this debate with a friend of mine for a long time. I agree with most opinions above: Good when hangdogging routes to death, really bad for noobs.
My main argument against it, in the case of my (very experienced) friend is that I feel that over time it has caused him to form some bad belaying habits, mainly lack of attention to the climber, and unconditional trust in the device. He disagrees of course.
His main argument for it, and something that hasn't been brought up here, is that the gri-gri will still catch the climber in a situation in which the belayer becomes suddenly disabled, by a falling rock for example, something that a normal belay device won't do. Plus it's a lot easier to get out of the belay system (in a rescue situation for example) if you're using a self-locking belay device such as a gri-gri. And I do agree with this.
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irockclimb
Aug 23, 2004, 11:51 PM
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yea well i do and dont like them. First i dont belive in being a lazy belayer becusae you will never learn and get to be a better belayer from that. But i think it is useful using it to belay and second on a multipitch climb. also i let people belay me with it but not lower me if they are new to climbing. but i teach them how to use a atc and explain how the grigri works and wat they must do to pull up slack
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daggerx
Aug 24, 2004, 12:17 AM
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It depends for top roping other people then yes I like them but for any thing else no, they slip on skinny or wet rope and it lets the belayers attention wonder
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healyje
Aug 24, 2004, 1:26 AM
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When they first came out I had my partner convinced for the longest time that "Gri-Gri" was French for "Poodle".
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jt512
Aug 24, 2004, 1:35 AM
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In reply to: Why do people ask this all the time about the gri-gri? It's all a matter of preference. In the hands of a competent user I don't care if they use a gri-gri, atc or atc-xp. I'll use any of the three interchangeably. Some people like the auto-locking and some people hate it...I don't really care that much if it's there or not. It's more of a convenience because I don't need it but there isn't anything wrong with having it. Since it's there when I use a gri-gri I'll take advantage of the autolocking by allowing it to make the catch by itself and holding the hanging belayer. Again, not that I need it but since it's there I'd rathers well use it. Sometimes I'll use my atc or my atc-xp.
D3+ and thumbs down vote for your post for the sentence I bolded.
-Jay
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oregonalpine
Aug 24, 2004, 2:02 AM
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We used gri-gris at the climbing wall I used to work at, and they worked great. Maybe 2 minutes of instruction and they're off to belaying. Really simple process for toproping, but not very practical for any lead climbing. Even with the auto-locking I would still use the same technique and precautions as any normal ATC, better safe than sorry, but they are very sweet if you have a beginner belaying you.
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jt512
Aug 24, 2004, 2:08 AM
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In reply to: We used gri-gris at the climbing wall I used to work at, and they worked great. Maybe 2 minutes of instruction and they're off to belaying. Really simple process for toproping...
D4.
In reply to: ...but not very practical for any lead climbing.
And that's just plain wrong.
In reply to: ...but they are very sweet if you have a beginner belaying you.
A beginner who's had "maybe 2 minutes of instruction?" No thanks.
-Jay
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kalcario
Aug 24, 2004, 2:10 AM
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25:1 rc.com gumby to climber ratio proven once again...good job folks.
ATC's should be outlawed for belaying leaders on suspect rock, a few weeks ago a partner of mine knocked a good-sized chunk of rock off while being lowered and it missed his ATC wielding belayer by inches, had it hit her in the head he'd be crippled or dead.
Why would I trust someone with an ATC if they can't figure out a grigri?
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crimpandgo
Aug 24, 2004, 4:56 PM
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Quote:
...but not very practical for any lead climbing.
I find using the gri-gri for lead belaying to be a pain as well. Have troubles feeding rope out as leader goes up. Consequently I have switched back to using atc solely. I didn't think twice about the decision until last week when I almost landed a loose rock on my belayers head. Started thinkin that having that back up would have been really NICE ...
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iridesantacruz
Aug 24, 2004, 5:38 PM
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i agree with everyone, no noobs, and nothing on redpoint. though when i use a gri gri on t/r i get real real nervous when they make a strong move that puts a good amount of slack in the system becuase its not locked anymore. If the climber would fall at taht point it would be quite confusing, im sure the device would snap right back into the locking position, but the climber may be dropped some... anyone know of any stories?
-chris
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kalcario
Aug 24, 2004, 5:50 PM
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* when you're driving down the road, not paying attention- you know off in LA LA LAND- just daydreaming away without a care in the world. and then BAM!!!!! and you've just rear-ended a MAC truck.
your car is destroyed, air bags deployed, etc.
but hey- your gri-gri just kept you from smearing your lipstick on the windshield.
see- you don't need a care in the world, or need to pay attention, or need any basic skills for it to work...*
I agrigri...er, agree with you, seat belts and air bags, and insurance for that matter, do create a dangerous sense of complacency when driving...I personally have bolted a shotgun, pointed at my head, to the dashboard of my car, and hooked up the trigger to the airbag impact sensor...keeps me more alert behind the wheel. Similarly I eschew entirely the use of ropes when climbing and free solo everything, I am much safer this way because the chances of my belayer screwing up are practically nil...
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jt512
Aug 24, 2004, 5:52 PM
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In reply to: Quote: ...but not very practical for any lead climbing. I find using the gri-gri for lead belaying to be a pain as well. Have troubles feeding rope out as leader goes up.
Then you don't know how to use a gri-gri properly. I have belayed about 5,000 leads with a gri-gri, and I can assure you that if you handle the device right you will have no problem feeding rope out.
-Jay
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jt512
Aug 24, 2004, 6:05 PM
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In reply to: i agree with everyone, no noobs, and nothing on redpoint.
Not that I actually know what "nothing on redpoint" means, but you don't agree with everyone. You agree with the other n00bs who don't know what they're doing. Kalcario and I, who are probably the only 2 people in the thread who have extensively used the device, are trying to tell you that, properly used, it is safer than an ATC for belaying a leader. As usual, the comments of competent, experienced climbers are getting drowned out by hoards of overly opinionated, inexperienced neophytes, who should be asking questions, not answering them.
In reply to: though when i use a gri gri on t/r i get real real nervous when they make a strong move that puts a good amount of slack in the system becuase its not locked anymore.
Then you don't know how to belay and you don't understand how the device works. The device is not supposed to ever be locked, except when your partner falls or takes.
In reply to: If the climber would fall at taht point it would be quite confusing, im sure the device would snap right back into the locking position, but the climber may be dropped some... anyone know of any stories?
When your partner falls you do essentially the same thing whether you're using an ATC or a grigri. If you find that confusing, for god's sake, stick to bouldering.
-Jay
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climb_plastic
Aug 24, 2004, 6:09 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Why do people ask this all the time about the gri-gri? It's all a matter of preference. In the hands of a competent user I don't care if they use a gri-gri, atc or atc-xp. I'll use any of the three interchangeably. Some people like the auto-locking and some people hate it...I don't really care that much if it's there or not. It's more of a convenience because I don't need it but there isn't anything wrong with having it. Since it's there when I use a gri-gri I'll take advantage of the autolocking by allowing it to make the catch by itself and holding the hanging belayer. Again, not that I need it but since it's there I'd rathers well use it. Sometimes I'll use my atc or my atc-xp. D3+ and thumbs down vote for your post for the sentence I bolded. -Jay
I didn't mean to not have my brake hand on. The brake hand is still the primary mode to catch the fall but the gri-gri cams with the upward pull which will sometimes lock sooner than the brake hand would have made the catch. So what's the difference? You put the brake hand on with an atc and it catches...you put a brake hand on with a gri gri and it catches.
I don't see this big advantage that an atc has over the gri-gri, and vice versa. I think the grigri takes on too much criticism because of the autolock...which when you really think about it, is a good idea to have. Sure it can be used wrong but so can the atc.
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