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dagawebb


Aug 23, 2004, 9:12 AM
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Zodiac
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Can anyone confirm how much of the fixed gear has been cleaned from Zodiac. From what I understand upto pitch three has been cleaned of fixed gear.


bringmedeath


Aug 23, 2004, 9:28 AM
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Well, I know for a fact that it was up for having lots of bolts chopped on it. It probably happened by now. I'm not sure how much fixed gear they were going to get, but I seam to remember him saying he want to clean the route up...


epic_ed


Aug 23, 2004, 9:39 AM
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It changes dramatically from season to season. In fact, it changed quite a bit in just a few weeks this summer when the Hubers were working on their speed record. It's best to get some input from someone who has climbed it just a week or two before you head up. When are you planning to be there?

Ed


bringmedeath


Aug 23, 2004, 10:38 AM
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Well, but this season all the non-original bolts were going to get removed. He even spoke to porter about it.

The variation start was cleaned up, so unless someone has done it in the past month, you will need to place heads. It was cleaned in good style though, no heads in the placements. This was to encourage people to do the real first pitch of Zodiac rather than the clip up hole fest.


refugee


Aug 23, 2004, 10:51 AM
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who is cleaning Zodiac? more specific information about this would be much appreciated


iamthewallress


Aug 23, 2004, 12:22 PM
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In reply to:
who is cleaning Zodiac? more specific information about this would be much appreciated

Who are you? Specific information appreciated. The Zodiac is getting 'cleaned' of a lot of its fixed gear.


epic_ed


Aug 23, 2004, 12:23 PM
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The Hubers pulled pins that block some key holds, and placed others where it would help them quickly aid through moves -- in particular on the nipple pitch. This is what I have been told from a couple of parties when I was there in late June. I climbed it to the top of P4 (again :roll: ), and there was much less fixed gear than the year before.

In particular, the first pitch had more mandatory cam hook moves than last year if you wanted to keep it hammerless. The move at the roof to get to the P1 anchors comes to mind. I think there were two pins on the first pitch, none on the second, none on the third (but two good heads), none on the fourth. Beyond that -- I'm going on hear-say. I'll let Kate or Melissa speak for themselves, but they reported an impossible move on P8 (if I recall) between bolts where it looked like some bolts had been chopped.

As for the P1 variation, there were definitely some heads. That variation doesn't go at all without fixed heads. Bryan put 'em there, himself, when he did it (at least, that's what I thought he said).

Ed


iamthewallress


Aug 23, 2004, 12:32 PM
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In reply to:
I'll let Kate or Melissa speak for themselves, but they reported an impossible move on P8 (if I recall) between bolts where it looked like some bolts had been chopped.

If you were a little taller than me or had a dubloon to get on the old bolt casing, it wouldn't have been impossible. I suppose I could have gotten on the spreader bar of my aiders, but I 'extended my reach' about half a foot intstead. :wink:

It sounded to me like this one bolt was probably pretty insignificant compared to the planned 'clean up'.


dagawebb


Aug 25, 2004, 10:07 PM
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I have climbed Zodiac in the last 3 weeks and was wondering wether it had actually been cleaned or not


wedgy


Aug 25, 2004, 10:19 PM
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I do hope the planned 'clean-up' will properly clean the route. A bolt case sticking out is chopping the route.


epic_ed


Aug 25, 2004, 10:47 PM
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In reply to:
I have climbed Zodiac in the last 3 weeks and was wondering wether it had actually been cleaned or not

Ah! Well then, congrats! No input I have will be useful for you on that subject. How did it go?

Ed


iamthewallress


Aug 26, 2004, 9:43 AM
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In reply to:
I do hope the planned 'clean-up' will properly clean the route. A bolt case sticking out is chopping the route.

That was a relic from another chopping or gear failure.


dsafanda


Aug 26, 2004, 9:57 AM
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In reply to:
who is cleaning Zodiac?
I know someone who claimed they were going to make cleaning up Zodiac a project this summer. I have no idea if they're making good on that claim but in any event, I can't imagine how knowing who cleaned it would effect one's approach to actually climbing it.


Partner holdplease2


Aug 26, 2004, 10:07 AM
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Well, it matters to me, because I like to swear in complete sentances. For example:

When I get to a part that is actually C2 but no longer has fixed gear but I can't do it, so I no longer feel like a C2 climber, I would like to say something like this:

G*d D*amn that F-ing <input name here> Who in the f-ing h@ll does he/she think he/she IS removing the Fing Training Wheels from this G*dd*amn route?

I want a route up the captain that I can climb even if I suck and d@mn <input name here> won't let me have one!!!!

Wahhhhh!

(And, of course, I would not be able to climb Zodiac without fixed gear, folks, the conversation you see above would be real)

You see? Rants, whining, and blame-laying just aren't as fun without a name to attach them too.

-Kate.


dagawebb


Aug 26, 2004, 10:07 AM
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EPIC_ED the climb was awesome mate. Loved it and totally enjoyed it. one of the best walls ever done.


bandycoot


Aug 26, 2004, 10:09 AM
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I can honestly say I don't care who is cleaning it, but I keep returning to this thread out of curiousity. What is wrong with cleaning a bigwall route of fixed mank? Is it so bad that you can't tell people who it is? I heard that the Nose was cleaned somewhat recently, and I don't remember who worked on that but I heard their names. Why is Zodiac different? Maybe refugee asked about who was cleaning it so that they could contact them for beta, or to help? Why the lame resposnes? They just make it seem like the person/people cleaning are doing something wrong and need protection.

In reply to:
Who are you? Specific information appreciated. The Zodiac is getting 'cleaned' of a lot of its fixed gear.

In reply to:
I know someone who claimed they were going to make cleaning up Zodiac a project this summer. I have no idea if they're making good on that claim but in any event, I can't imagine how knowing who cleaned it would effect one's approach to actually climbing it.


epic_ed


Aug 26, 2004, 10:13 AM
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Kate -- yer killin me...


dsafanda


Aug 26, 2004, 10:20 AM
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Good points Kate.

bandycoot. Read my post again. I didn't mention any names because I don't know. I'm not trying to protect anyone. That said, I don't think a post about cleaning Zodiac really should be about who or when. Bring more heads than you would have a few months ago. Isn't that the bottom line here?


Partner holdplease2


Aug 26, 2004, 10:37 AM
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I would say take more heads and rrrreeeeaaaalllly try to get your hands on a set of hybred aliens. I remember clipping many fixed angle pitons...those scars can take hybreds but can be hard to fill, otherwise.

Take a Rurp or two. I recall the Black Tower having a few that were necessary but crap. If they have been cleaned, I don't know what else would go there...

Also, the mountain shop stocks angle pitons that are short...like sawed angles. Ever tried to make a sawed angle? Sheesh. I'd pay more for a home-made one of these than I would for a new angle, for sure.

Of course, best not to nail if possible. Take a few extra minutes to fiddle and see if you can get a reasonable placement. Sometimes thats all it takes. And maybe the gear might pull? Well, if there is something solid below it, give it a whirl...that's what C2 climbing is all about! Yeow!

:)

-Kate.


dsafanda


Aug 26, 2004, 11:04 AM
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Hybrid Aliens: The prefered tool of extremely mediocre aid climbers such as myself. When CMac hauled my ass up the Trip earlier this year we used my rack. He noticed the two sets(thank you Ed) of hybrids and skeptically asked why on earth I needed two sets. He had never used them before. Granted, he can fly with or with out em but I think that by the end of the climb he was singing a slightly different tune.


Partner holdplease2


Aug 26, 2004, 11:29 AM
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Three sets, mate. Climb with three sets. With three sets you can even eliminate hooking. ;)

Hybred aliens and a titanium stick clip. Reticent, here I come!

Oh yeah. And a rrrreally big crashpad.

And a parachute.

Hybreds, stick clip, parachute, crashpad. My recommended rack for anyone who sucks.

-Kate.


karlbaba


Aug 26, 2004, 11:50 AM
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Did the first pitch of Zodiac this summer and there was far less fixed gear, particularly at the end of the pitch, then a few years ago.

Still got it clean but it was not super easy or straightforward.

Peace

karl


iamthewallress


Aug 26, 2004, 11:59 AM
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In reply to:
That said, I don't think a post about cleaning Zodiac really should be about who or when.

Exactly. I exchanged PM's with the person who asked the question and he was just looking for gossip and controversy...which ideally I don't think is what a discussion regarding cleaning the Zodiac up should be about. Besides, it always seems spineless to me when someone post anonymously and demands to know who someone else is, no matter what the topic.

I didn't say who was doing it b/c I heard it second hand (my boyfriend was climbing with one of the people involved) and didn't think it so classy to start naming the names of folks who might not be as involved as I think. I support what they are doing, but it makes some people mad, and I don't want to create a problem for someone who wasn't even doing the deed. I did, however agree that this clean up was happening based on my second hand knowledge, because most people would head up expecting a certain amount of fixed gear after all these years, and a bit of warning seemed fair.


ammon


Aug 26, 2004, 12:01 PM
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Oh boy, here we goÖÖ

Why is the Zodiac ridden with such controversy? Ok, since I think this is such an important topic I guess Iíll get sucked into it as well.

When Porter did the first ascent of this route it was considered one of the hardest big walls in the world, back then he called it A5. If I were Charlie I would be embarrassed at the climbing community for what they have reduced his masterpiece to.

I have climbed the Zodiac seven times and I have never seen the route in the shape itís been in the last few years. There is fixed garbage everywhere. It has gotten so bad that Iíve witnessed a few parties go up there with nothing but draws and a few random cams.

If you want to climb in this style there are other climbs for youÖ.. Via Ferrata!!!!

As for the clean up, donít fool yourself into thinking itís not one. I have seen the pile of garbage from the first three pitches with my own eyes. Three people are up there doing a community service. One who is focused on the aid line, one who is highly respectful of the free line and one who is in the middleÖ.. kind of a work horse, if you will.

The aid line WILL be harder. Bring beaks, heads and pins. The free line will not change other than all of the fixed junk being gone. The free belays will not be chopped because the Huberís put the belay somewhat off route to respect the aid line (below the nipple). The bolts at the nipple will be chopped making a natural belay for the free climb.

I would also bring three or four number four cams for above Peanut Ledge.

I also donít think it really matters who is doing this restoration. BUT, I donít think they are hiding what they are doing either. In fact several magazines where contacted by them to report the event.

I canít wait to see the picture of all the garbage they removed from the entire route.

Well, there are my opinions and some facts that I know. Hopefully nobody wastes there entire vacation getting schooled. Spread the word about bringing the right gearÖ. And damn it people CLEAN your pins. Two parties have passed since the cleaning and both of them left fixed junk.

Have fun, climb hard and take lots of risks.

Cheers, Ammon


PS- If you really have to know it's.... Bryan Law, Ivo Ninov and Gabriel McNeely.

PSS- Good job on Mescalito, KateÖ. I miss seeing you up there.


Partner holdplease2


Aug 26, 2004, 12:16 PM
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Thank you, Ammon, I miss being there.

And thank you for the info on Zodiac.

-Kate.

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