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dingus
Sep 1, 2004, 3:20 AM
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dmt
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rocdaug
Sep 1, 2004, 3:39 AM
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Actually it is my view that jt512 is the most annoying feature of this site. while he may be a wealth of information and be a super 5.13 climber, his manner and poison pen cause me to pretty much discount everything that comes from his ip. I watch his posts purely for entertainment now... just waiting to see who the next unfortunate will be to fall under the thunderous tap-tap-tap of his keyboard. basically a know-it-all who seems to enjoy beating up the other kids in the playground rather than helping them out. just my 2-bits rd
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curt
Sep 1, 2004, 3:46 AM
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In reply to: Actually it is my view that jt512 is the most annoying feature of this site. while he may be a wealth of information and be a super 5.13 climber, his manner and poison pen cause me to pretty much discount everything that comes from his ip. I watch his posts purely for entertainment now... just waiting to see who the next unfortunate will be to fall under the thunderous tap-tap-tap of his keyboard. basically a know-it-all who seems to enjoy beating up the other kids in the playground rather than helping them out. just my 2-bits rd 2 bits for that drivel? Are you trying to screw us out of $.25? Curt
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dingus
Sep 1, 2004, 3:51 AM
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In reply to: while he may be a wealth of information and be a super 5.13 climber, his manner and poison pen cause me to pretty much discount everything that comes from his ip. Your perogitive of course my man. But of course your opinion of jt doesn't excuse disingenuous behavior on my part, now does it? And I am being perfectly honest to admit I learned something from the man. I won't backhand him in an apology thread he was due, sorry. Cheers DMT
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girlclimb
Sep 1, 2004, 3:55 AM
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In reply to: He is the one who finally illustrated for me the true danger to using a daisy chain as a climbing anchor, a direct and compelling impact on my own personal safety habits. It doesn't get much more primary than that, eh? probably not hte post to ask this in but what are the problems of using a daisy chain as an anchor? Moderator's note: The Suggestions forum was definitely not the place to ask about daisy chains, and I've split the ensuing discussion off to the appropriate forum. This has taken me 14 minutes to accomplish, so please, in the future, post to the correct forum. Thanks. -jay
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kachoong
Sep 1, 2004, 4:06 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: He is the one who finally illustrated for me the true danger to using a daisy chain as a climbing anchor, a direct and compelling impact on my own personal safety habits. It doesn't get much more primary than that, eh? probably not hte post to ask this in but what are the problems of using a daisy chain as an anchor? ....well, for starters, daisy chains aren't sewn slings to be taking whippers on, let alone using them at the anchors. They are made with aid climbing in mind, to utilise with body weight and associated forces. I do not think they are sewn to be used as ordinary slings.... they may hold a fall but 'may' is not a strong word. ...any other takers?... explain away...
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squish
Sep 1, 2004, 4:11 AM
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[post deleted. no longer relevant since Jay split the topic.]
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musicman
Sep 1, 2004, 4:20 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Actually it is my view that jt512 is the most annoying feature of this site. while he may be a wealth of information and be a super 5.13 climber, his manner and poison pen cause me to pretty much discount everything that comes from his ip. I watch his posts purely for entertainment now... just waiting to see who the next unfortunate will be to fall under the thunderous tap-tap-tap of his keyboard. basically a know-it-all who seems to enjoy beating up the other kids in the playground rather than helping them out. just my 2-bits rd 2 bits for that drivel? Are you trying to screw us out of $.25? Curt i am reminded of Ferris Buellers Day Off "YOU HEARLESS WENCH!"
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holdplease2
Sep 1, 2004, 4:22 AM
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Perhaps Jt512 will do us the favor of both roasting kachoong for his answer and answer the question in his grand style, right here in his very own "apology thread". I think that would be great. -Kate.
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cgailey
Sep 1, 2004, 4:44 AM
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In reply to: Awesome hijack! We need a rating system for this. H4. I give it an H3...but good call
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cgailey
Sep 1, 2004, 4:48 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: He is the one who finally illustrated for me the true danger to using a daisy chain as a climbing anchor, a direct and compelling impact on my own personal safety habits. It doesn't get much more primary than that, eh? probably not hte post to ask this in but what are the problems of using a daisy chain as an anchor? ....well, for starters, daisy chains aren't sewn slings to be taking whippers on, let alone using them at the anchors. They are made with aid climbing in mind, to utilise with body weight and associated forces. I do not think they are sewn to be used as ordinary slings.... they may hold a fall but 'may' is not a strong word. ...any other takers?... explain away... Agreed. If you look at the structure of a daisy, the method of sewing drastically reduces the overall strength of the material. Daisies were designed with aid in mind, and there really is no necessary use for them outside of this...unless you like to carry one to clip yourself into your anchor on a trad/sport climb (which would be a waste of weight as they aren't good for anything else).
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epic_ed
Sep 1, 2004, 4:53 AM
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Refreshing self-honesty, Dingus. Nice job.
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billcoe_
Sep 1, 2004, 5:07 AM
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Hey: Dude- what did you do to Dingus? This isn't like in that movie where Pod People take over people is it? :lol: Dingus thats just damn amazing and appreciated. His "sharing" can come across abrasively, like I said on the other thread, and like rocdaug has just pointed out. rocdaug- you are very wrong to paint it that way, side note to you, and this isn't a diss: you may be allowing blinders to cause you miss important knowedge. That is a quick way to a serious accident, something no climber can afford. You might re-access your attitudes and thought process's as well. BTW Dingus: I assume that the apology to JT is extended to me as well for the slight for sticking up for JT on that thread? :wink: Like you, I'm glad he shares: it's all good, and if only 1 person, just 1 person on the group W bench reads something of his and evades a future trajedy, well, thats just 1 more asshole taking up space one of my rou......errr did I just say that out loud? S*it.......thats probably gonna be misinterpreted. I really mean, it would have been worth it to have saved even 1 life, even 1. Yeah, thats the ticket! I agree, so thanks JT from me as well: - thank you Dingus as well for your sharing and thoughts, just as interesting and even more entertaining. Regards to all (even rocdoug) Bill
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mheyman
Sep 1, 2004, 6:17 AM
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In reply to: This isn't like in that movie where Pod People take over people is it? Dingus thats just damn amazing and appreciated. An apology from Dingus? Rare, and rarely needed, but certainly not amazing or completely unexpected. Intelligent people know when and how to apologize.
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jt512
Sep 1, 2004, 5:26 PM
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Thanks, Dingus. No sweat, Man. -Jay
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jt512
Sep 1, 2004, 5:53 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: He is the one who finally illustrated for me the true danger to using a daisy chain as a climbing anchor, a direct and compelling impact on my own personal safety habits. It doesn't get much more primary than that, eh? probably not hte post to ask this in but what are the problems of using a daisy chain as an anchor? Here's the answer, as posted to rec.climbing by Chris Harmston, the former Quality Assurance Manager at Black Diamond:
In reply to: From: Chris Harmston Subject: Re: Belay anchors: why not use daisy chains? Date: 1997/12/16 Message-ID:[Pine.A41.3.95q.971216174607.66296d-100000@blkdia.bdel.com]#1/1 Daisy's are weaker than runners because, as the pockets rip out, damage to the webbing occurs at the pocket tacks. In static testing the pockets rip out until you are in the standard runner configuration. The web breaks at the damaged area of one of the pocket tacks. In factor 2 falls with 185 lbs of steel I have seen some break outright without popping all the pockets! I have also seen them hold factor 2 falls and pop all pockets. Dynamic loading is not the same as the slow pull we use for batch testing and rating. Runner materials do not stretch like your ropes does. Use your rope for your primary anchor and use the daisy as a backup and as the adjustability. I have heard reports of daisy's breaking in factor 2 aid falls. The samples I have seen that broke in the field were fairly well worn. Daisy's get worn quite quickly and their strength degrades accordingly. Use your rope as the primary anchor! -Jay
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olderic
Sep 1, 2004, 6:07 PM
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In reply to: I In the beginners thread you stated the fairly obvious when you said, 'the internet is a primary source of climbing information' or words to that affect. The truth of the statement is fairly self-evident. But should it be? Nothing to do with climbing but everything to do with the Internet is the fact that it is so easy to ask and so easy to answer that obviously it is most people's prime information source. That doesn't negate the fact that the signal to noise (or what ever other cliche you want to use to describe the drivel) is high or that the people that know the least tend to post the most (not to disparage the two esteemed gents that are the focus of this thread) or that even the responses of the experiences are often of the shoot from the hip style and not as accurate as they could be.
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jt512
Sep 1, 2004, 6:17 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I In the beginners thread you stated the fairly obvious when you said, 'the internet is a primary source of climbing information' or words to that affect. The truth of the statement is fairly self-evident. But should it be? Nothing to do with climbing but everything to do with the Internet is the fact that it is so easy to ask and so easy to answer that obviously it is most people's prime information source. I see no reason why a website can't be as good a source of climbing information as a book. Climbing books aren't exactly peer reviewed; there's no guarantee that their information is accurate, either. I use the internet all the time to get help with statistical problems. Why shouldn't this be possible with climbing? -Jay
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crimpandgo
Sep 1, 2004, 6:23 PM
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Uh oh, here we go again :)
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dingus
Sep 1, 2004, 6:39 PM
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dmt
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dawnawanna
Sep 1, 2004, 6:49 PM
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Since we've already hijacked the thread to a daisy chain discussion... If you like the daisy-anchor set-up that Dingus is describing, consider switching to the PAS by Metolius. I know lots of people don't like it, but it gives you the length adjustability of a daisy chain but with full strength spectra loops. I used to use a Daisy like Dingus described, but I always felt a little unsafe (that nagging "What-if" feeling). I switched to the PAS and love it.
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alpnclmbr1
Sep 1, 2004, 6:52 PM
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This bull has been thrown around a lot lately.
In reply to: Agreed. If you look at the structure of a daisy, the method of sewing drastically reduces the overall strength of the material. This is only true if you consider the difference between 22kn and 19kn to be drastic. (19kn was the number given for the strength of a daisy after all of the pockets had been ripped out.)
In reply to: Here's the answer, as posted to rec.climbing by Chris Harmston, the former Quality Assurance Manager at Black Diamond: In reply to: From: Chris Harmston Subject: Re: Belay anchors: why not use daisy chains? Date: 1997/12/16 Message-ID:[Pine.A41.3.95q.971216174607.66296d-100000@blkdia.bdel.com]#1/1 Daisy's are weaker than runners because, as the pockets rip out, damage to the webbing occurs at the pocket tacks. In static testing the pockets rip out until you are in the standard runner configuration. The web breaks at the damaged area of one of the pocket tacks. In factor 2 falls with 185 lbs of steel I have seen some break outright without popping all the pockets! I have also seen them hold factor 2 falls and pop all pockets. Dynamic loading is not the same as the slow pull we use for batch testing and rating. Runner materials do not stretch like your ropes does. Use your rope for your primary anchor and use the daisy as a backup and as the adjustability. I have heard reports of daisy's breaking in factor 2 aid falls. The samples I have seen that broke in the field were fairly well worn. Daisy's get worn quite quickly and their strength degrades accordingly. Use your rope as the primary anchor! -Jay Latter in this same thread he stated that two daisies are plenty strong for an anchor. The kinds of falls that he is describing here can break locking biners, it is no surprise that they can also break a worn daisy. No, you should not trust your life to one daisy any more then you should trust your life to one sling. Yes, a daisy can be safely incorporated into an anchor set up. I have been doings so for as long as I have been climbing, and I have never even popped a pocket, let alone breaking one. There are also a lot of other good reasons to incorporate a daisy into your systems that I am not going to go into. Karlbaba wrote: the short version
In reply to: This is different than the daisy chains that are an intregral part of aid climbing or handy at belays for trad climbers
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lcerick
Sep 1, 2004, 7:06 PM
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1. Dingus, much respect... 2. That daisy looked dangerous, lesson learned... 3. Why is anyone writing on this apology thread? It should have been over the second Dingus hi 'Enter'
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actionfigure
Sep 1, 2004, 7:09 PM
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Let's see if we can change this thread again. This time to cordelettes DAISY CHAIN=aid climbing CORDELETTE=anchors
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jt512
Sep 1, 2004, 7:10 PM
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Regarding connecting to the belay anchor with a daisy...
In reply to: Perhaps Jt512 will do us the favor of both roasting kachoong for his answer and answer the question in his grand style, right here in his very own "apology thread". I think that would be great. -Kate. Sorry, Kate. No can do. I split the daisy posts off to the Trad forum. Please post related reaponses there: http://www.rockclimbing.com/...iewtopic.php?t=69571 -Jay
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