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mikeasca
Sep 11, 2004, 2:47 AM
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Lets see if anybody knows the truth. Who invented the cam.
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bobd1953
Sep 11, 2004, 2:50 AM
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I could be wrong but...George Lowe who I think saw/got the idea on a climbing trip to Russia.
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masterjuggler41
Sep 11, 2004, 2:51 AM
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Leonardo Da Vinci? he invented everything else.
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curt
Sep 11, 2004, 2:56 AM
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In reply to: Lets see if anybody knows the truth. Who invented the cam.
If you mean a climbing cam, the answer is Abalakov. He was the first to notice that a section of a logarithmic spiral has a constant expansion angle--and then applied that to climbing gear.
Curt
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jerrygarcia
Sep 11, 2004, 3:11 AM
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[edit]
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oklahoma
Sep 11, 2004, 3:59 AM
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man, I don't know shit about shit but that was a damn good answer.
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gentry
Sep 11, 2004, 4:12 AM
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ray jardine
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noshoesnoshirt
Sep 11, 2004, 4:12 AM
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Theodorus' spiral very closely approximates the logarithmic spiral. Fibonacci was one of the earliest mathematicians to discern the shape of the logarithmic spiral, but Descartes is widely credited with its discovery.
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opusxxii
Sep 11, 2004, 4:36 AM
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Gabe Walker, duh.
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cgailey
Sep 11, 2004, 5:14 AM
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I'm guessing by your question..."see if anyone knows the truth"...that it's not Jardine...
My ears are open..
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southernmtguide
Sep 11, 2004, 2:12 PM
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The Wild Country Cam booklet that was published last year puts a fairly biased and one side version of the history of "camming devices" out. :roll:
If one reads that and that alone, one would assume, incoreectly, that Ray Jardine, and Wild Country are responsible for what we all take for granted.
Dig a little deeper and ask the right people, and one will find that the truth is out there. Try googling Greg Lowe, Summit Magazine articles, and lawsuit settlements and one shall be enlightened. :wink:
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reprieve
Sep 11, 2004, 2:56 PM
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Well, from what I could dig up, it looks like Greg Lowe (who I'm guessing is also the Greg Lowe of Lowe Alpine) did have the idea of using cam-shaped pro first. However, his invention was a passive-pro cam (tricams). It seems like Ray Jardine gets to keep his credit for inventing the SLCD.
And, holy shit.... http://www.mtntools.com/...eum/images/02_02.jpg
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edge
Sep 11, 2004, 3:34 PM
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In terms of cams relevent to climbing applications, Curt has the correct answer. He beat me to it.
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dredsovrn
Sep 11, 2004, 4:14 PM
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Wasn't it Al Gore? I mean, he invented the internet too. Right? :lol:
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mikeasca
Sep 11, 2004, 4:33 PM
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Greg Lowe is the correct answer. He had the first prototype and the first pantent on the slcd then he showed it to ray. Greg also designed the new omega link cam. I got to play with one of the prototypes and about shat myself.
They make all other cams worthless.
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edge
Sep 11, 2004, 5:13 PM
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Nope, Abalakov. The original question was about cams, not slcd
http://www.bigwalls.net/climb/mechadv/
After an incomparable career of first ascents dating from the 1930s in the various mountain ranges of the USSR, Vitaly Abalakov devoted his life to mountaineering instruction, equipment design, and the promotion of international good will for mountain climbing. Scrounging surplus aircraft materials, he made a variety of innovative tools, including the first hauling pulley, the first adjustable tube chock, inventive rope clamps, titanium pitons and crampons, retrievable ice screws, and the V-thread rappel anchor (not, strictly speaking, a mechanical device, but nonetheless an ice-climbing breakthrough). His invention of the Abalakov Cam was the first application to climbing of the principle of a constant-angle curved surface, with a cam shape based on the mathematical logarithmic spiral. Designed so that a load produces a rotational force, the logarithmic cam shape allowed for a single device to fit in a range of crack sizes without a change in the loading pattern, making it predictable and stable. Abalakov shared his ideas with the world, and freely distributed information on their design and construction.
In 1973 Greg Lowe filed for a patent for a sprung loaded version of the Abalakov Cam, manufactured some workable single cam units, and equipped his brother Jeff, who rapidly scooped some of the finest long routes in Zion National Park, notorious for its hard-to-protect parallel-sided cracks. These early single cam units had an elongated 30 degree camming angle, which provided limited stability, and their use never became widespread. In 1977 Ray Jardine climbed the Phoenix, Yosemite's first 5.13, with a new secret weapon. With an engineer's understanding of the principles of force and friction, Ray designed a sprung loaded opposing multiple cam unit with a more stable 15 degree camming angle and an innovative triggering mechanism. He kept his "Friends" cloaked in secrecy before his patent in 1978, and Yosemite was rife with rumors of Jardine's devices allowing for effortless protection placement on hard free routes. Before the commercial availability of Friends, a lucky inner circle of wall rats were able to buy his initial limited production of the innovative tools in the Camp 4 parking lot, and subsequently saved vast amounts of energy expenditure on the taxing big walls.
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grayhghost
Sep 11, 2004, 5:34 PM
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Your reference failed to note
that Ray Jardine manufactured
the Phoenix before he deamed
it Yosemite's first 5.13.
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cgailey
Sep 11, 2004, 6:07 PM
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Wow, this is so informative...I love history lessons! :D
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mikeasca
Sep 12, 2004, 2:02 AM
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Then why did greg win a lawsuit agnist wild country over the slcd?
Because thats what he showed ray but it dident have a trigger on it yet.
cams=slcd thats what we are talking about.
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jc5462
Sep 12, 2004, 2:47 AM
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If memory and sorting stories goes good: The patent for the CAM is/was held by Nautilus (AKA, the fitness machine people) and that Greg Lowe eventually won the case on the SLCD. However the early Lowe Cams were 2 cams on the same side and a pair of shaft/handles which webbing was tied into to clip to (I actually have one in my collection). Ray Jardine is the inventor of the "Freind" as we now know and Jardines SLCD had 2 pair of opposible cams with a ridged stem and trigger. Wild Country went to great lengths to keep anyone from making SLCDs for many years. Their patent was on the ridged stem and trigger of the original "Freind". This is why you see most other cams with flexible shafts and different triggers. There are some copies of these cams around which were stopped due to patent issues (HB, Kong and a Korean knock-off called Camrades) If you notice there are some existing cams which have unique patented fetures and they are not duplicated: CCH Aliens with internal springs, BD Camalot with the double axle and Splitter Gears Bi-Cam. I also remember hearing around that Jardine offered his new device to Forrest Mountaineering, but they could not work out the profit percentages and he took it to Wild Country and the rest is as they say HISTORY. If you want an interesting find look at the HB Fix from years ago (Ridged stem unit with a split butterfly trigger) or the CMI Roc-Jox (single lobe cam)
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edge
Sep 12, 2004, 2:49 AM
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"Alex, I'll buy a clue for $500"...
SLCD= Spring Loaded Camming Device.
Lowe was the first with the spring loaded, but the original freakin question was about the "Cam".
.In reply to: Lets see if anybody knows the truth. Who invented the cam.
ABALAKOV!!!
The next time you play trivia, make sure you know what you are talking about, or at the very least, phrase it correctly. You did neither in this case
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curt
Sep 14, 2004, 12:55 AM
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In reply to: Greg Lowe is the correct answer. He had the first prototype and the first pantent on the slcd then he showed it to ray. Greg also designed the new omega link cam. I got to play with one of the prototypes and about shat myself. They make all other cams worthless.
As edge has pointed out, Greg Lowe is not the correct answer to the question you actually asked. If you wanted to know who first invented the SLCD then you should have asked that question.
And no: Cam does not = SLCD.
Curt
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dietzpa
Sep 14, 2004, 1:39 AM
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I think it is pretty obvious that the ONLY person who could have Possibly invented the cam is........
MCGUYVER
In short, you are all entirely wrong.
thank you, and goodnight.
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jc5462
Sep 14, 2004, 4:19 AM
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But in this case because we are not all sitting in the same room talking it is easy to have a difference in terminology. This is a climbing discussion group and to many climbers sitting around talking about "cams" they might be thinking "SLCD". A car nut might be thinking Engine cams, and the Patent holder might be thinking the working mechanism of their workout equipment. So if I was to ask you for a nut, what would you give me? (A BD #7 stopper, A 1/2" course tread machine nut, A Pecan or one of your testicles). Any one of us needs to realize there are different terminologies used in different social circles and also different locations. I recently did a search and rescue demonstration and a fellow rescuer asked if we needed any more "Biners" sent up, We were teaching these kids how to rappel He then realized that there where many Hispanic kids in the group watching (just think of the sound of that to someone watching who does not know that is slang for carabiner). This is a great forum, I enjoy the discussions but we all need to relax as in this format it is easy to be misunderstood and very easy to ruffle anyones feathers. I personally took no ofense by your comments, but just want to explain why myself and others may have misunderstood and not given the answer you were seeking.
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brianinslc
Sep 15, 2004, 8:11 PM
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In reply to: ABALAKOV!!! The next time you play trivia, make sure you know what you are talking about, or at the very least, phrase it correctly. You did neither in this case
I just chatted with Greg Lowe a couple weeks ago (at the OP booth, OR show). Said Middendorf got the history of the logrithmic spiral and Abalakov wrong (which I was always curious about). I think he mentioned that Jeff took a Lowe cam to the USSR on one of his climber exchanges. Anyhoo, Greg said that the cam the Abalakov cam up with was basically a pulley cut in half with a cord attached. No logrithmic spiral involved.
I think Lowe produced not only two prong spring-loaded cams, but, also 4 lobed ones (gear nut Marty has a picture of them...amongst others...which he had Greg sign...too funny).
So, in my mind, as far as active cams, spring-loaded and of the logrithmic spiral type, Lowe gets credit for the invention and has the patent.
Another interesting point I'd always wondered about, was, did the "v-thread" or "Abalakov" ice hourglass come from the USSR to the US, or, vice versa. Greg said Jeff took it there....
As far as passive cams? Geez...probably used by someone climbing grit stone in the UK back in the 1800's...
FWIW...
Brian in SLC
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