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macattack22
Oct 7, 2004, 6:35 AM
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EDIT (10-27-04):: WON'T THIS THREAD DIE ALREADY!!! Thank you ALL for your thoughts and advice, but I have LONG since taken care of the situation. I not only bought some rope wash and gave my rope some TLC, after which it felt completely back to normal, but I also decided to buy a new rope because I needed a 60m anyway. So for crying out loud, enough with the PMs about my rope already. :P
Okay, I haven't climbed outdoors in several months now (Argh! lost my regular partner to a breakup!). Just tonight I finally got a trip together and I was so exicted already I thought I'd get my gear together.
So I located my gear bag and then started to wonder, "hey, where the hell has my rope bag been hiding all this time?" (I've moved AND rearranged my new place since the last time I climbed). I feared the worst, that I had left it somewhere, like my old apartment... but then thought of the second worst: had it been in my CAR for 6 months?!?!?
Unfortunately, sure enough, there was my rope bag, all neatly packed and clipped and upside down in the far reaches of my trunk. Where it has sat ever since I flaked it into the tarp (Metolius Ropemaster) and stuffed it into the bag, on the afternoon of March 30, the last time I used it. My rope, which for as little as I used it only had ONE fall on it and nearly no wear and tear.... has been sitting baking in my car, which has been parked out in the sun and weather all freaking summer. In San Diego, CA no less... not a single day without some sun.
So I pull the thing out and start doing the same old rope "fondling" to see how it fared. Sadly, not so well it would seem. The outside is intact, the color (aside from dirt) is good..... but, getting towards the middle, the part that was most tightly flaked/stuffed in the bag is kinda..... lumpy. Not hideously, obviously so... but it definitely doesn't feel consistent all the way through. Now, I know ropes soften up as they get used, bent through ATCs and biners, tied in knots, and that a little bit of this is okay in terms of general wear and tear. I'm not so sure about what temperature range a rope should be kept within, if anything, even though it was far away from sunlight... could months of baking in the heat weaken the fibers? IS THIS DEATH FOR MY ROPE?!?
I'm pretty sure I should "just be safe" and retire the rope and get a new one... kinda looking for a second opinion though. This rope, before its imprisonment in my trunk sauna, was very gently used... only one fall, a couple of sporadic sport leads, some top roping, always kept on a tarp, less than two years old. I suppose I should be flogged for my negligence. On the other hand, there's a nice looking 9.8mmx60M for less than $200 at REI right now..... for anyone who's actually owned more than one rope in their lifetime, what do you think? To retire or not to retire?
Sorry to babble. I like telling stories. :P
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moof
Oct 7, 2004, 6:55 AM
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Heat is generally not an issue for ropes. As part of their normal processing they go through a boil cycle, it's no biggy. If you have lumpiness that doesn't go away from a couple flakings then I'd be a bit worried, but it's probably the same as my ropes that act klind of the same way sitting in my closet with enough crud piled on it. A bit of handling and a flaking and they are back to normal, just the core relaxing back to round after being flattened by weight.
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holdplease2
Oct 7, 2004, 7:00 AM
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Perhaps wrap middle the rope around the base of a tree or clip it into an anchor. Then, walking backwards (not off of a cliff or into traffic, of course) "rappel" with the rope running through your belay device. Go all the way to the end of the rope (this is why actually rapping won't solve your problem).
Having a bit of pressure on the rope and running it through the device might be just the thing.
I am not saying that your rope is safe, I am just saying that if kinking-related things is your problem, this may help with that.
-Kate.
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pheenixx
Oct 7, 2004, 7:10 AM
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I live in Phx, AZ, in the east side of the Sun, and for some reason, I seem to remember being told NOT to store my gear (rope) in the garage OR in the trunk of the car for too long...but I don't remember why. I'd drop in a call to the people who make the rope and see what they say. When in doubt -- I always go to the source.
But, if you want to turn it into car-towing or bondage materials -- gearexpress.com has a rope sale. Edelweiss 'Laser' 9.6 X 60M (200') Bi-Pattern Dry Rope for $139.95 or a 9.9 60mm Dry for $129....beats out REI.
http://www.gearexpress.com/Merchant2/4.12/00000001/catalog/cat70.html
Have a great RTrip..!
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sandbag
Oct 7, 2004, 7:15 AM
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In reply to: I live in Phx, AZ, in the east side of the Sun, and for some reason, I seem to remember being told NOT to store my gear (rope) in the garage OR in the trunk of the car for too long...but I don't remember why. I'd drop in a call to the people who make the rope and see what they say. When in doubt -- I always go to the source. But, if you want to turn it into car-towing or bondage materials -- gearexpress.com has a rope sale. Edelweiss 'Laser' 9.6 X 60M (200') Bi-Pattern Dry Rope for $139.95 or a 9.9 60mm Dry for $129....beats out REI. http://www.gearexpress.com/Merchant2/4.12/00000001/catalog/cat70.html Have a great RTrip..!
Now thats using your noggin!
The lumps probably came from multiple heat/cooling cycles and contraction and expansion. the heat in your car didnt ever get above 160F and this particular nylon shouldnt(note shouldnt, dont sue me, im so poor id have to do drastic things to survive) even be an issue. Again, if youre worried, ropes are cheaper than a deck incident, and by all means possible, if you go the BDSM route take pics of the rope in action...tastefully please... :P
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josephgdawson
Oct 7, 2004, 7:18 AM
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Why dont you put it in the washing machine on cold with no soap and see how it feels after that. Maybe it is hardened dirt or something.
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antigrav
Oct 7, 2004, 7:39 AM
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In reply to: ...tastefully please... :P
Given the recent history of shouting and screaming and banning of people, etc. etc., I really doubt that we'll see a new category for pictures very soon... :)
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coldclimb
Oct 7, 2004, 7:44 AM
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I wouldn't worry man, you had it in the rope bad and stored in a nice dark dry place, it's probably fine. My guess is the lumps are there because the rope was wadded into a ball for six months, and they'll work out after one climbing session.
However..... If you are at all worried about this rope and feel uncomfortable climbing on it, I will pay shipping if you send it to me. After all, you've gotta have full confidence in your gear, right? ;)
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pheenixx
Oct 7, 2004, 7:45 AM
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In reply to: Given the recent history of shouting and screaming and banning of people, etc. etc., I really doubt that we'll see a new category for pictures very soon... :)
...isn't that what BDSM means... :lol: 8^) :twisted:
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antigrav
Oct 7, 2004, 7:55 AM
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:D
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grit-freak
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Oct 7, 2004, 7:55 AM
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You cant always 'feel' or 'see' damage done to a rope 100% of the time... maybe the core has been damaged.
As far as Im aware, ALL rope manufacturers recommend avoiding excessive heat!
Pheenixx is right, seek their advice more than anyones.
If you can pick up a new rope for $100-140, then I'd say your life's worth a lot more!
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jammin
Oct 7, 2004, 9:40 AM
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When in doubt, turn your rope into a rope rug. I have a few of those at my place...
If you're asking yourself the question "Is my rope still safe?" then you'll never again feel comfortable when you climb on it.
Just buy a new rope and be done with it!
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coldclimb
Oct 7, 2004, 10:17 AM
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And for the record, my offer is serious. I'll pay shipping. ;)
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pheenixx
Oct 7, 2004, 5:04 PM
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In reply to: And for the record, my offer is serious. I'll pay shipping. ;)
Hey, maybe coldclimb needs a rope-rug. He's gotta be thinking about shoveling ice-cubes any day soon, he lives in Alaska. If you send it to him -- you'll possibly be saving 2 lives and hit the pillow at night with hero status.
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timstich
Oct 7, 2004, 5:17 PM
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In reply to: When in doubt, turn your rope into a rope rug.
Except possibly in this case. Wash it and see how it looks. Soft spots where the sheath is more loose than in others is not that big of a deal, if this is what is wrong with your rope. It's only a handling issue. The heat in your car trunk is not going to affect your rope adversely. It's not good to leave your climbing shoes in the car as they will delaminate.
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sarcat
Oct 7, 2004, 5:52 PM
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I agree with timstich. My ropes stay in the car year round. My personal dynamic one so I can climb 1-2 times a week during lunch. The (2) rescue ropes stay in there year round because ya never know when it'll be needed. Time is important so I can't drive home to get it. I'd say most SAR people do the same. Of course we retire them every 4 years if they have NEVER been used, sooner if they have. They are static ropes however.
Does heat affect dynamic / static ropes differently IF heat affects ropes at all?
I'll post in the MRA lister and see what response I get.
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tchamber
Oct 7, 2004, 6:02 PM
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I remember when I bought my rope new it said specifically on the little tag NOT to store it in the car. I've seen people leave their shoes in the car and they delaminate, so heat can certainly have an effect on volitile materials. Obviously, nylon is going to stand up to hot/cold cycles better than rubber... but that said, I make it a point to ALWAYS remove ALL of my gear from my car as soon as i get home, no matter how tired I am.
Is your rope f---ed? Possibly not... Is there anyway to really find out if it's f---ed without falling on it and snapping it? No. Should you replace it? Yes.
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crimpandgo
Oct 7, 2004, 6:10 PM
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I am having troubles with San Diego being "excessive Heat". Items left in direct sunlight within your car are getting excessive heat. Every seem what cheap plastic does when set on your seat all day? Put the same plastic in the glove box and see what happens, nothing. Sure extended exposure to high temps is probably not good for your rope, but if it were going to do the kind of damage you are talking about (affecting the inner core and not the out sheeth) the rest of your trunk would exhibit the same damage. Your rope is not made of some magical material folks. Its made out of the same stuff a lot of other products are. Its not gonna self destruct under these circumstances. The ropes usefulness is really in its design and durability to withstand things like this.
Now, with all that said, you use your own judgement. Look the rope over, wash it, lok it over again, then if you still aren't comfortable, spend some money :D
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chr1s
Oct 7, 2004, 6:13 PM
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Since nobody has mentioned this yet, I am going to throw it in.
I don't think the heat is big deal for your rope. Kept in the dark is good, light is a real killer for nylon.
The biggest problem is what else was in the trunk of your car? If you keep a spare gas can in there, or something similar then you should think much more carefully about your rope. Gas or any other type of solvent could mean death for your rope - damage that is there but you won't be able to see.
Cheers,
Chris.
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shank
Oct 7, 2004, 6:22 PM
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So if heat and sunlight are so bad for nylon, why haven't they made a mandatory "replace the seatbelts in this vehicle by _____" date? Or a "best if used by _____" stamp on them like on milk and batteries?
Just curious.
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crotch
Oct 7, 2004, 6:28 PM
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Maybe it's just me, but it seems unlikely that 'heat' would magically bypass the sheath of your rope and then somehow concentrate in the core in such a focused fashion that it would cause damage. If heat damage was a problem, wouldn't the sheath show signs of it too?
Occams razor. Lumpy core comes from 6 months of storage in a tight wad.
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crimpandgo
Oct 7, 2004, 6:33 PM
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In reply to: Maybe it's just me, but it seems unlikely that 'heat' would magically bypass the sheath of your rope and then somehow concentrate in the core in such a focused fashion that it would cause damage. If heat damage was a problem, wouldn't the sheath show signs of it too? Occams razor. Lumpy core comes from 6 months of storage in a tight wad.
:D :D agreed
I climb in arizona in the summer. Its 116 out and the rope is in the sun. No way around. I climb with my rope rope years before I retire it. The point is the manufactures have to be very cautious with warnings due to liability reasons. Be practical when applying those warnings and make sure you check your rope thuroughly before using. In this case the rope felt odd which brings the original question to to the surface.
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danpayne
Oct 7, 2004, 7:27 PM
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In reply to: So if heat and sunlight are so bad for nylon, why haven't they made a mandatory "replace the seatbelts in this vehicle by _____" date? Or a "best if used by _____" stamp on them like on milk and batteries? Just curious.
Isn't it that UV rays are the damaging componant of sunlight. I think a lot of windows are made to block out UV rays. You can't get sunburned while driving, except if the window is down. As far as heat, I have no idea.
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sandbag
Oct 7, 2004, 7:47 PM
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Here: http://spelean.com.au/BW/TM/BWtechdyn.html#ropecare
quit bickering or Ill pull the car over and spank the lot of you!
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crimpandgo
Oct 7, 2004, 8:02 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: So if heat and sunlight are so bad for nylon, why haven't they made a mandatory "replace the seatbelts in this vehicle by _____" date? Or a "best if used by _____" stamp on them like on milk and batteries? Just curious. Isn't it that UV rays are the damaging componant of sunlight. I think a lot of windows are made to block out UV rays. You can't get sunburned while driving, except if the window is down. As far as heat, I have no idea.
UV rays AND Heat are damaging in their own way. My example previously about the piece of plastic was not making an example of UV damage. I was making an example that direct sunlight will cause a greater increase in temperature. Inside the trunk on a hot day may be 160 degrees. A position on the seat in direct sunlight may reach much higher temperatures.
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