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pheenixx


Oct 7, 2004, 10:20 AM
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Hmm, you can get a few of these gizmo's over the internet, but not in shops, and so america sucks?

The title of your thread is what sucks.

Yeah, it sucks, in that it got 700 hits in just a few hours. Not bad for a damn gear head thread.

What sucks is my post got CENSORED...!!! Wow -- my 1st -- (gnat...your my hero).

It case it was just a computer "glitch"....Former Post:
Congradulations, you've discovered barrabes.com

As to your forum title -- "Why does America suck sooooo much..."

B.U.S.H.

Maybe it was a Repblican who censore it... :lol:


rradjc


Oct 7, 2004, 10:25 AM
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All the gear you mention is available in US stores such as Pagan Mountaineering in Moab, Ut and I think Over the Crux in Az. Kong and related may be hard to find, but it exists in the US.


dingus


Oct 7, 2004, 10:33 AM
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I know a few years ago Black Diamond had a fit because Americans could buy gear from MEC cheaper than they could in the US. So now MEC cannot ship certain items into the US. Which is now just a great excuse for a road trip to Canada!

Isn't that a bit anti-competetive?

I thought it was REI complaining that Canadian companies like MEC could sell BD gear for less than REI could, in the same marketplace, due to tax laws and exchange rate variations, etc. Barrabes played into this subject but I can't remember how.

So you are the VP of Sales at Black Diamond, and your largest customer says 'DO SOMETHING.'

Doing something isn't as anti-competitive as you make it out to be. If BD loses REI they lose a huge share of their market. THAT is anti-competitive.

Trade restrictions are not anti-competitive by definition. Sometimes they enable it.... most of the time. Unless you have sold out to globalism...

and if you've sold out to that silly assed concept then you MUST ACCEPT the actions of Blair and Bush toward Iraq.

I hate this 'one world' shit. If that means import duties on Euro goods, amen. if that means telling MEC they can't dump American manufactured goods on American soil thereby running American companies out of business, GOOD.

We shouldn't be looking to CANADA in terms of wisdom on this subject... they want to sell their largest mining company to a wholly owned Chinese government business front. That's right, Canada seems willing to sell their precious metals industry to a foreign government.

With 'globalism' like that? We poor dumb assed citizens NEED PROTECTION.

Walmart too. Bastards are killing the common man. Something will hagve to be done. I say... NUKE ARKANSAS, yee hah!

DMT


e_wire


Oct 7, 2004, 10:42 AM
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We shouldn't be looking to CANADA in terms of wisdom on this subject... they want to sell their largest mining company to a wholly owned Chinese government business front. That's right, Canada seems willing to sell their precious metals industry to a foreign government.
DMT

Dude, you're mixing up alot of issues here. Canada mining doesn't have anythinbg to do with this. Nor does the slack-or-close-to-none laws on gun control in the US! MEC will not ship BD equipment, nor will it ship cheaper Cloudveil apparel to the US. It's the type of agreement they do with US companies in order to protect their domestic market. Most of the stuff we get for less at MEC cannot be shipped to the US.

Get the facts straight! See this link for more info...

http://www.mec.ca/...C%3Efolder_id=730459

e_wire - yeah, I'm from Canada!


fanederhand


Oct 7, 2004, 11:22 AM
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But I agree about the the "Frog" thing. What the hell is it?

They are draws that are easier to clip and give you a bit of extra reach. Never used 'em but they look wierd.

The FROG:
http://www.barrabes.com/.../medium/kongfrog.jpg

Got a grip on one once. The principle is to keep the "gate" open untill the it's pushed against a bold whereafter it automaticly locks up. Makes it easier to clip reachy stuff. It's the last manufactured version of "panic draws" as far as I know.

There was a big discussion on it in a german climbers forum as they found out it becomes unclipped under certain circumstances (rope gets tangled around upper "biner" and pushes both of the release buttons or such). I think the purpose is truly in aid-climbing and the draw should be replaced by a normal one as quick as possible.

- Daniel

Try "Pagan Mountaineering" in Moab that is where I got one.


Partner tgreene


Oct 7, 2004, 11:32 AM
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http://www.climbonrock.com -- These guys carry Kong cams


Partner coylec


Oct 7, 2004, 11:51 AM
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I know a few years ago Black Diamond had a fit because Americans could buy gear from MEC cheaper than they could in the US. So now MEC cannot ship certain items into the US. Which is now just a great excuse for a road trip to Canada!

Isn't that a bit anti-competetive?

Classic do-not-compete clause in contract formation. Highly effective. THis is how companies divy up markets for various distributors to ensure each distrubitor gets what htey want.

coylec


itakealot


Oct 7, 2004, 12:10 PM
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Most of the Kong stuff anyway... But it doesn't have quite as good reputation as BD or Petzel.

e_wire.

Those Bonatis just keep popping. -reference to the 1980's bonati recall. Doesn't anyone remember?


Partner chugach001


Oct 7, 2004, 12:36 PM
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Oh please...

These are nice products so why not either (1) buy 'em, (2) put your money where your mouth is and become their US Distributor (you know they want access to the world's largest market), or (3) become an instant millionaire by beating those lousy US companies at their own game.

At least we have 3 options that beat whining.
Jeff


danpayne


Oct 7, 2004, 1:00 PM
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Re: Why does America suck sooooo much

HUH? WTF does this have to do with gear?

Why don't you move to Iraq if the U.S. of A sucks?

uhhh, are you aware that the U.S. is in complete occupation of Iraq, trying to make their country like ours? Just curious to see if you heard about that whole "War Thing" over there?


jeffstephan


Oct 7, 2004, 1:08 PM
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To answer the title on this FORUM: Why does America suck sooooo much...
B.U.S.H.
I feel ya 8^)


outdoorclimber


Oct 7, 2004, 1:49 PM
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The frogger draw is sketchy. I've used it b4, and hated it. You can only clip into the bolt if you are directly under it, and it's a pain to take it off the bolt. Stick with normal draws...


wlderdude


Oct 7, 2004, 2:36 PM
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Wow, what an angry thread.

Oh, well. I'll se if anything can be cleared up.

The Frog works like the mechanism on your car door that latches it closed. I saw one at Pagan Mountaineering, but didn't buy one. They are one of the few places I have seen that have much Kong gear. Kong makes some good stuff. The workmanship isn't what the workmanship of US made gear is, but it is still very good. My Kong biners are some of my favorites.

Liberty Mountain took over distribution of Kong gear a couple years ago. They inflated the prices a bit over what their previous distributor had them at (I think it was Climb Axe, but I can't remember for sure). The Euro went up in value realtive to the dollar and Kong has been generally priced out of the US market. They were never very well known.

The lack of brand recognition and strong Euro have hurt some of the other European gear makers who have started selling gear to us, such as Cassin. Again, the workmanship is generally not as pollished. CE rated or not, fewer climbers are willing to trust the "cheaper" stuff so few shops carry it. Let's face it, few shops inventory much gear, they don't compete very fiercely with each other, reputation of the their quality is important and they like selling gear with higher sales margins.

I don't doubt that there is a great deal of pressure from market leaders to keep the Europeans in Europe with their gear. I understand Barrabes had to start listing US prices on their shoes when selling to US customers, or the manufacturers would stop selling them shoes. It raised a stink here when it happened, but apparently it blew over well enough it was forgotten.

The internet may overcome some of these issues. If want that stuff, you can get it. The market may get a little grey at times, but someone will sell it to you. But you can't pay with a cheque or pick the colour.


slablizard


Oct 7, 2004, 2:44 PM
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Well actually if you compare shoe prices they're lower in US (NOW). Last summer I had my wife bringing me a pair of Miura's from Italy, I paid $90 compared to $146 here. But I was checking now and the difference is minimal, at least at barrabes.

on sportextreme you also find some very good deals but often are larger sizes...
hen you add the shipping to the cost you're pretty much there again.


ophir


Oct 7, 2004, 3:14 PM
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Why does America suck sooooo much...
Wal-Mart, Mcdonalds, Home depot.


ldsclimber


Oct 7, 2004, 3:42 PM
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All this gear has been around for years. I remember seeing the Slyde in a shop in 96. The reason why most of that gear is not found in shops in the Us is simple Economics, Supply and Demand, also pacticality, the slyde is ment to be used with a static rope wich is a commen practice in Europe.
People are also like Sheep in the climbing world. Not very many of them are willing to try new gear, mostly for good reason, it is your life you are expermenting on.
People tend to buy the gear that they see working. The Euro brands are for the most part just as safe and some what cheaper, but they are just not popular. BD, Wild Country, Metolious and so on are all over the hardman/woman's rack. That tells all new comers that they are better.
The only way to find out for yourself is to be an informed buyer and research them out, find them and try them.


ldsclimber


Oct 7, 2004, 3:58 PM
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I forgot the whole reason for looking at this form.
As an American and as some one who has served her and has lived in other counties as a local I call BULL S!*T. To say that America sucks is a flat out Pomus statement and should make any American sigh with disbelief rather than whole heartedly agree, without even thinking about what was just said. I don't care what your political views are, America does not suck.
I love my county and will not sit by at my computer while Crap like that is passed on the Front PAGE of this Web Sight . You are intitled to have that view but I'll be Dambed if it's going unanswered.


ldsclimber


Oct 7, 2004, 4:09 PM
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After rereading the whole topic sentence again I gotta say sorry for ranting. Get out and vote.


kachoong


Oct 7, 2004, 4:15 PM
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...you guys think gear is expensive in the US????

...try here downunder.... our average 60m 10.5mm dynamic will cost you $280-$300 (US$210).... or say an Cobra ice axe for $400 (US$280) or a BD Camalot for $140 (US$100)....
...import tax SUCKS!


danbensen


Oct 7, 2004, 7:02 PM
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...you guys think gear is expensive in the US????

...try here downunder.... our average 60m 10.5mm dynamic will cost you $280-$300 (US$210).... or say an Cobra ice axe for $400 (US$280) or a BD Camalot for $140 (US$100)....
...import tax SUCKS!

damn, I was considering moving down there if that idiot Bush wins re-election, but that kinda throws a monkey wrench into the equation


danbensen


Oct 7, 2004, 7:02 PM
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...you guys think gear is expensive in the US????

...try here downunder.... our average 60m 10.5mm dynamic will cost you $280-$300 (US$210).... or say an Cobra ice axe for $400 (US$280) or a BD Camalot for $140 (US$100)....
...import tax SUCKS!

damn, I was considering moving down there if that idiot Bush wins re-election, but that kinda throws a monkey wrench into the equation


danpayne


Oct 7, 2004, 8:08 PM
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I forgot the whole reason for looking at this form.
As an American and as some one who has served her and has lived in other counties as a local I call BULL S!*T. To say that America sucks is a flat out Pomus statement and should make any American sigh with disbelief rather than whole heartedly agree, without even thinking about what was just said. I don't care what your political views are, America does not suck.
I love my county and will not sit by at my computer while Crap like that is passed on the Front PAGE of this Web Sight . You are intitled to have that view but I'll be Dambed if it's going unanswered.


"Well you may not agree with what I have to say, You'll defend to the death my right to say it!" :D Just messin, first off, thanks for your service. Overall America is a great place, but its an even greater place for us to be able to voice whats wrong with it.


Partner coylec


Oct 7, 2004, 8:11 PM
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I forgot the whole reason for looking at this form.[..] blah blah blah [..]

Dude, you need to lay off the caffeine, you're a little edgy.

coylec


ldsclimber


Oct 7, 2004, 9:39 PM
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Yeah Sorry about that enough said on my part.


Partner tattooed_climber


Oct 7, 2004, 10:03 PM
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FROG....looks cool and all...some good thinking/engineering went into that one....but....like always with me: K.I.S.S.

more moving-parts and crap, the more likely for a fk up

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