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metoliusmunchkin


Aug 25, 2001, 12:59 PM
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Do you consider Top Roping to be a beginners approach to the rock? Which do you prefer top Roping ro Leading. Please share info on leading if you will, I am interested in taking up the sport.


iclimb512s


Aug 25, 2001, 7:17 PM
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ya toproping is usually considered for beginers. leaing takes more strength and skill. what do u want to know about leading
?????? write back
Grant


talons05


Aug 25, 2001, 7:33 PM
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Hey, toproping is THE ONLY way, in my opinion to get into climbing. It is, by far, the safest way to go. There are so many variables in lead climbing, and so many extra techniques that must be learned. I would suggest starting to climb indoors, where you have access to people to answer your questions and check your safety systems. The next safest venue would be to find someone who is experienced (really, experienced, not just a talker) that is willing to "take you under his wing." Still, you should toprope everything for a while. Once you are ready to start leading, again, get an experienced partner and, as another safety precaution, start out on routes that are WAY easy for you. This way, you don't have to concentrate on the climbing, and can focus instead on the correct placement and technique with the new gear and climbing style.


patman


Aug 26, 2001, 10:30 AM
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dudes top roping is fun!


Partner pianomahnn


Aug 26, 2001, 10:47 AM
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If you can't bolt, and can't place pro, top roping is where it's at.

Nothing wrong with a little TR if you ask me.


skyscraper


Aug 26, 2001, 7:50 PM
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U know, they say if you can top-rope it, then you should be able to lead climb it too.


kriso9tails


Aug 26, 2001, 8:32 PM
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When I'm on lead I tend to be more contientious of my movements, plus I feel more freedom of movement for some reason. On top rope I get sloppy and make jerkier movements, but it gives you a chance to work a crux without having to repeatedly haul yourself back onto the rowt. If given the choice I will generally lead, but I'll top rope as well, especially when it's between TR and nothing.


wandt


Aug 26, 2001, 8:46 PM
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I like toproping best. It lets you forget about everything. I hate always worrying about the clips, or more specifically stopping to clip/place gear. Not to mention that toproping lets you climb for hundreds of dollars less than otherwise. No quickdraws, no cams, nuts, bolts, millions of carabiners, long slings, med. slings, short slings, etc. etc. etc. A rope, some locking 'biners and a couple lengths of nice webbing and you're set.


krillen


Aug 27, 2001, 7:54 AM
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TR has it's place. We have one days a week where we bring out newbies for TR, or if there are no newbies, we set up a TR on something sick hard and have some fun.

For beginners the steps I would follow/DID follow: Gym TR, outdoor TR, indoor lead, outdoor lead, trad/aid/whatever.


climber1


Aug 27, 2001, 10:43 PM
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lead climbing makes one a better climber. the leader can not fall. Skyscraper is right, if you can TR something, you can lead it. the difference between top roping and leading is mental.


rck_climber


Aug 28, 2001, 11:29 AM
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I encourage all my new partners to get a feel for top-roping first, then when they're ready, they'll know it. We like to call it "The Need to Lead", and you'll start getting antsy and sick of following when you're getting ready to lead. I've had guys that I felt were ready in a week, and others that have been climbing a year and still not led - it's a personal thing and you'll know when you're ready.
Mick


jcs


Aug 28, 2001, 1:52 PM
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hey, climber1, why cant the leader fall? and, in defense of poor skyscraper, is it possible that he meant that if it is within your ability level to do a climb "clean" on TR, you should be able to work it until you can actually red point the same climb? it also sounds like he's talking about sport climbing, but the same thing is true on gear if you really have the climb and placements wired.


metoliusmunchkin


Aug 28, 2001, 2:34 PM
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I understand yes, that leading is harder, and that pesky top rope does infact get in your face a lot especially when you fall. I am seeking more adventure with rock climbing, when I climb with a top rope I feel secure even with slack though I know that if I fall I"m only falling say 1 foot depending on my slack. With leading it's a whloe new thing, depending of course on how far apart the bolts are, the climber when he makes a mistake usually falls an average of 6 ft. which to me sounds more exiting, I fell that I have grown past the secured beginners feeling of having a tight top rope on you and I seek the adventurousness of leading, do you people have any advice on how to become introduced to this type of clibing? Thanks for all of your support and views.


jds100


Aug 28, 2001, 4:13 PM
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Patrick: getting help from an experienced climber is probably the best way to learn. That can be someone who has "credentials" or someone who has a reputation as a good climber and a patient and good person. Choose wisely; don't just take his or her word for it. Ask around and see who's name comes up most often. (One caution: there's a so-called professional guide in my area who is a danger to the sport for a number of reasons, so make sure you check with quite a few sources for recommendations. If there are gyms near you, ask a few people there, those who work there, and those who climb there; if there's a guidebook for your area, see if there are recommendations in there, or call the author. Afterward, compare what your guide taught you with what you read in instruction books, and if you have questions about any differences, post the question here.)

I, too, don't get the assertion that it is necessarily true that if one can TR a climb, then one can also lead it. That's not accurate, and it's also more likely to keep the learning and improvement curves very low and slow. Typically, a climber can do a climb that is physically harder on TR, before it can be lead. Sure, part of the difference is mental, but a very large part of it is the physical difference of needing to find a stance from which a hand can be taken from a hold and the gear and rope manipulated. Also, the idea the leader cannot fall is arcane, and will also incur a very slow learning and improvement curve for the climber stuck with that belief. Falling is part of growing into harder sport climbs, and, if courage and mental 'balls' are requirements for traditionally protected climbing -and they may well be- then taking falls onto trad gear is inevitable, too. One adage I've seen is, "If you're not falling, you're not getting better."

There is no "average" fall for lead climbing, not for sport climbs, nor for trad climbs. Every climb is different by virtue of the rock, its features on the route, protection available, stances available, where you are relative to the last piece of protection clipped into, etc., and then how you and your belayer work together.

There's really too much ground to cover for a forum posting, and you won't learn it all from reading it, anyway. Best: get experienced instruction. Also: DO read up on this stuff, and re-read it, in the How to Rock Climb series of books; they're the most up-to-date of the books I've seen available, and the most thorough (other than the nutrition one, I recommend every one in the series!).


climberchk


Aug 28, 2001, 4:43 PM
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I don't know about you guys, but I just love hearing the "clip" of the draw going thru the bolt! Ahhh, the litte pleasures in life.


redpointadventures


Aug 30, 2001, 9:38 AM
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Hey Munchkin, always start at the begining.

Don't underestimate the difficulty of toproping. Dont attempt to set toperopes for yourself without recieving professional instruction. Forget about leading 5.14 for now. Climb with experienced climbers. Learn to to toperope at 5.9 or better, then second for an experienced leader. The gym is a good place to learn to clip.

With your ambition there is nothing you can't do. Don't do anything rash to impress anyone or the only impression you will make will be in the ground.


jds100


Aug 30, 2001, 9:42 PM
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Just wanted to agree with redpoint: second a lead climber on trad and sport routes for awhile to learn what a stance is (pull the gear without a tight belay, without hanging on the rope). And, yes, have someone teach you about setting up toprope anchors, please.


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