|
jcr
Oct 19, 2004, 4:56 PM
Post #1 of 35
(3792 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 17, 2004
Posts: 317
|
Ok, quick question here....
looking to buy one of the two:
1.- black diamond ATC-XP or 2.- Petzl Reverso (for belay and rappel)
used ATC before but not reverso
Pros? Cons? Which would you suggest to buy???
Thanks
JC
|
|
|
|
|
mtnjunkie
Oct 19, 2004, 5:34 PM
Post #2 of 35
(3792 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 2, 2003
Posts: 58
|
Depends on what you want to use the device for. I have both and use them for different situations. Multi-pitch trad, get the reverso hands down. However, the reverso doesn't feed as smooth as an ATC, so I wouldn't recommend the reverso for sport climbing. Plus, it seems that the reverso twists ropes when lowering from the anchors (and using the device in the auto-brake mode-if anyone has any tips to mitigate this I would love to hear them).
|
|
|
|
|
glowering
Oct 19, 2004, 5:34 PM
Post #3 of 35
(3792 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 13, 2002
Posts: 386
|
ATC-XP unless you want to have autolocking for a second on a multipitch. The ATC-XP has better friction for heavier climbers.
|
|
|
|
|
mr8615
Oct 19, 2004, 5:48 PM
Post #4 of 35
(3792 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 4, 2004
Posts: 1032
|
I think the ATC XP is a gimmic, I've yet to come upon a situation where I needed the XP vs. the regular ATC. I also use the reverso for multipitch and as an extra belay/rappel device when I'm climbing with people who don't have their own ATC. I find it to be a pain to lower people on the XP while toproping single pitch also. So if you have an ATC already, get a reverso for special applications, the XP won't add much if you have an ATC, I've already sold mine.
Mark
|
|
|
|
|
petsfed
Oct 19, 2004, 5:55 PM
Post #5 of 35
(3792 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 25, 2002
Posts: 8599
|
Not sold on the necessity of the ATC-XP. I loved the ATC, but got a Reverso on sale. Reverso does not lock off as well as the ATC. It does autoblock though, which is a godsend on multipitch. If you get an ATC, just get a regular one. If you do a lot of multipitch, get a reverso. One cannot overstate the utility of the autoblock option.
|
|
|
|
|
indigo_nite
Oct 19, 2004, 6:19 PM
Post #6 of 35
(3792 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 3, 2002
Posts: 365
|
hi, I can only give feedback on the Reverso.
when belaying a leader I think it works fine. when belaying a second it's hard to give out slack, particularly when you're belaying off the anchor. the Reverso is a little more complex than the traditional ATC design and that can contribute to higher possibility of user error.
when I read the rave reviews for the BDiamond ATC-XP, I was kind of tempted to check it out but I'm happy using my Trango Jaws now and trying not to make unnecessary gear purchases.
|
|
|
|
|
greenmachineman7
Oct 19, 2004, 6:21 PM
Post #7 of 35
(3792 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 29, 2004
Posts: 108
|
I dunno, I realy like my reverso... I've got an xp as well, just don't find I use it unless I'm lending it to a partner....
I personally don't like digging around my gear bin for a different belay device if the one that I keep on my harness all the time works just fine...
-t
|
|
|
|
|
saskclimber
Oct 19, 2004, 6:22 PM
Post #8 of 35
(3792 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 23, 2004
Posts: 548
|
In reply to: I think the ATC XP is a gimmic |
|
|
|
|
climbhoser
Oct 19, 2004, 6:25 PM
Post #9 of 35
(3792 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 4, 2004
Posts: 210
|
As a guide the Reverso has revolutionized the way I do things. I typically carry two of them, use it in auto-block straight from the anchor and then just hand it over to my client when they arrive making changeovers a whiz and a half.
As far as the ATC-XP goes, I think it's a lot like the Trango Jaws in that it makes whippers a deal easier to handle. My experience is that they do help when the whippers are big, so if you're pushing limits on trad like in Eldo or whipping a lot on sport it can really help, but the ATC is still my favorite for all around.
I'd say regular ATC before ATC XP unless you are really looking for a softer catch, and the XP can always be reversed for rappeling to make it smoother. Reverso only if you like the auto-block, 'cause that's all the advantage it offers
|
|
|
|
|
adeptus
Oct 19, 2004, 6:28 PM
Post #10 of 35
(3792 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 17, 2002
Posts: 322
|
I would take a regular ATC over any other device, because it feeds smoothly, unlike the XP version. The Reverso is even worse.
|
|
|
|
|
trapdoor
Oct 19, 2004, 6:37 PM
Post #11 of 35
(3792 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 27, 2003
Posts: 183
|
I've been considering the reverso too, then i came across the B-52. Does anybody have any input on that?
|
|
|
|
|
chris24110
Oct 19, 2004, 7:00 PM
Post #12 of 35
(3792 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 28, 2003
Posts: 16
|
Having used the ATC-XP, I'd say go with the standard ATC. The groves in the XP grab the rope a little too much during rappels and decents. Your climber won't appreciate the jerky ride down. I use the Omega Pacific SGB II. It's the same basic shape as the XP minus the clingy ridges. It's also got a V shaped brake so it's got more stopping power than the ATC. The popular brand names are cool but be sure to search around the smaller brands to find that perfect one.
|
|
|
|
|
sarcat
Oct 19, 2004, 7:11 PM
Post #13 of 35
(3792 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 22, 2004
Posts: 1560
|
I've use quite a few devices and currently have (3) of the standard ATCs. Yet to see a reason to change but of course multi pitch is a rareity.
|
|
|
|
|
brianinslc
Oct 19, 2004, 7:21 PM
Post #14 of 35
(3792 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 13, 2002
Posts: 1500
|
In reply to: Having used the ATC-XP, I'd say go with the standard ATC. The groves in the XP grab the rope a little too much during rappels and decents. Your climber won't appreciate the jerky ride down. I use the Omega Pacific SGB II. It's the same basic shape as the XP minus the clingy ridges. It's also got a V shaped brake so it's got more stopping power than the ATC. The popular brand names are cool but be sure to search around the smaller brands to find that perfect one.
I've used the OP Superior Belay Gadget a bit...one complaint (lessoned with a bit of tool dip) is that they are kinda jingle jangly loud on a harness if you do much walkin' around. But, they work great...especially on skinny cords. Shaft wrap still kinda scares me a tad, though.
I'd say, base your decision more on what type of ropes you'll mostly be using. If fat, say, single lead rope at around 10.5 give or take, I might lean toward a standard ATC or Reverso. Skinny as in 8mm or so, I'd get the XP ('xtra pretentious) ATC or a Reversino.
If somewhere in the middle, I'd probably lean toward the ATC XP as you can change the position to be more or less friction. I like the ATC XP because its wear patterns, if you happen to climb in an area with real abrasive rock dust (think ORG), doesn't create a sharp edge as quickly as a standard ATC.
If you guide, or, belay a pair of climbers directly off an anchor after a lead, the reverso is nice.
I mostly use an ATC. Simple.
Brian in SLC
|
|
|
|
|
newtons_law
Oct 19, 2004, 7:45 PM
Post #15 of 35
(3792 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 19, 2002
Posts: 93
|
When I first started climbing I had a partner who once belayed be from above on a reverso. Everything was fine until I got stuck on the second part of a double crux roof and had to be lowered. I remember him asking, "Are you in a comfortable place?" To which I replyed, "YOU MEAN THE PLACE I HAVE BEEN UNABLE TO CLIMB FOR THE PAST 15 MIN!". He had to get out of the belay system and change devices. My dead wieght on the reverso caused it to lock and I was stuck hanging for longer then I care to remember. My vote just get an normal ATC. They are simple to use and you know how they work.
g.
|
|
|
|
|
alienathome
Oct 19, 2004, 7:52 PM
Post #16 of 35
(3792 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 19, 2004
Posts: 35
|
Dude-
Go with the reverso. It is self locking and you can belay easily off an anchor which you can't do with an ATC.
|
|
|
|
|
glowering
Oct 19, 2004, 7:57 PM
Post #17 of 35
(3792 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 13, 2002
Posts: 386
|
In reply to: He had to get out of the belay system and change devices. My dead wieght on the reverso caused it to lock and I was stuck hanging for longer then I care to remember.
He shouldn't have been using a device in that fashion without knowing how to release it. (i.e. read the manual and practice first).
As someone said flip the XP (or a trango jaws) around to rap on it.
|
|
|
|
|
lebeau
Oct 19, 2004, 8:02 PM
Post #18 of 35
(3792 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 10, 2004
Posts: 61
|
I'll second the vote for b-52
You get the benifit of the ramp helping the lock off and you get the benift of autoblocking the second.
I have two of them (wife and I) and the newer one works much better. I think they changed the slots a little bit.
|
|
|
|
|
johnathon78
Oct 19, 2004, 8:34 PM
Post #19 of 35
(3792 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 30, 2004
Posts: 340
|
Definately the ATC-XP. It has plenty of safety fetures for a nice smooth safe belay, and is only about $20.00. I own one myself and I havent switched me atc yet. A definately good buy.
|
|
|
|
|
cfnubbler
Oct 19, 2004, 8:46 PM
Post #20 of 35
(3792 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 31, 2003
Posts: 628
|
In reply to: He had to get out of the belay system and change devices. My dead wieght on the reverso caused it to lock and I was stuck hanging for longer then I care to remember.
It wasn't the device malfunctioning there. It takes about 15 seconds (tops) to unlock a Reverso. What was your pal doing with a belay device s/he didn't know how to use???
In reply to: you can belay easily off an anchor which you can't do with an ATC.
Sure you can. You just have to redirect the brake strand through a biner off an anchor point behind the device so it it can be locked off in the proper position. The "shelf" of a cordalette works great for this. True, it's a bit of a pain to take in rope while belaying in this fashion (better to use a munter), but it's a nice trick for lowering directly off an anchor.
Personally, I use a Reverso for trad climbing (as stated, outstanding for multipitch work) and a regular ATC for sport (because the Reverso makes it difficult to feed rope fast enough for a quick clip).
-Nubbler
|
|
|
|
|
gunksgoer
Oct 19, 2004, 8:47 PM
Post #21 of 35
(3792 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 27, 2004
Posts: 1290
|
I currently own a whopping 5 bellay devices
reverso, atc-xp, gri gri, and 2 atcs
all but two sit in my gear closet, i only use my reverso and grigri.
for trad and multipitch i use the reverso, it is one of the best pieces of climbing gear designed, with all its nifty features. for sport and at the gym, i use the grigri, as its autolock catches falls easily.
|
|
|
|
|
ozarkclimber
Oct 19, 2004, 10:50 PM
Post #22 of 35
(3792 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 3, 2003
Posts: 60
|
In regards to the B-52, are there rope diameter recommendations on it? I looked it up online but didn't notice any recommendations. I really like the Reverso and have used it on several occasions, and I'm curious how the other companies products are matching up. Mammut seems to have a device out that will accept smaller diameter ropes as well as 10.5 (at least that's what they advertise) and was wondering if anyone has tried this one out.
My vote: The reverso over the ATC-XP. It's a piece of hardware, that unless you drop, will last you a long while through your progression of climbing, if you're not already interested in multi-pitch. If you've got the cash, go for both.
|
|
|
|
|
blueeyedclimber
Oct 19, 2004, 11:19 PM
Post #23 of 35
(3792 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 19, 2002
Posts: 4602
|
I have and use both. Here's how.
XP - Sport and tr belaying
Reverso - trad belaying a second, rapelling
XP is too much friction for rapelling
|
|
|
|
|
scrubber
Oct 19, 2004, 11:48 PM
Post #24 of 35
(3792 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 15, 2004
Posts: 6
|
OK I'll wade in too. The ATC XP has too much friction for my liking. It does however have a much friendlier edge for the rope to run over. The regular ATC can get quite sharp as the edge wears down. This isin't an issue of potential rope cutting but it wears significantly harder on your rope. My favourite is the Trango Pyramid. It has a nice fat edge so it's easier on your ropes, it locks down great but not prematurely, and you can flip it over to get proper friction on thin half and twin ropes.
I have also used the reverso quite a bit and am not pleased with it. the slots are too tight with anything larger than a 10mm rope. The back of the device (non braking side) also wears to a sharp edge quite quickly when used in "ATC Mode". My device of choice for a direct anchor belay is the New Alp Plaquette (best of luck finding one) or the very similar Kong GiGi. The downside is that they are lousy devices to belay off of your harness with.
So my reccomendation? I carry both a Plaquette and a Pyramid on any multipitch that I'll be leading most or all of the pitches on. If I'm swinging leads then I just bring the Pyramid and do a redirected belay. Then I can use a munter hitch on the anchor if I need to do a direct anchor belay.
Kris
|
|
|
|
|
slamurai
Oct 19, 2004, 11:48 PM
Post #25 of 35
(3792 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 28, 2004
Posts: 64
|
I've only used and ATC and ATC-XP, so I'm not much help on the comparison. I will say that belaying a heavy partner is much easier with an XP. I don't get why people are saying it causes to much friction. just flip it over and it becomes a regualr ATC. Also belaying off the anchor is pretty easy as someone already mentioned.
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
