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cosmokramer
Oct 23, 2004, 5:23 PM
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Hello friends,
I was wondering if there are professional organizations out there where one can be taught the ins and outs of bolting sport routes, preferably in the southern U.S.
Do such business entities exist, or is sport-bolting a skill informally acquired through the luck of knowing someone that is willing to show you how?
Anyone have websites/information?
Thanks in advance,
CK
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grayhghost
Oct 23, 2004, 5:39 PM
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your in for a world of hurt my friend
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slobmonster
Oct 23, 2004, 5:43 PM
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I would bet there's someone out there who would take your money happily, coksmoker.
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cosmokramer
Oct 23, 2004, 5:46 PM
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Didn't know it was a crime to bolt your own property...forget I asked.
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tuna
Oct 23, 2004, 6:38 PM
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Took a look at your profile
Says you started climbing in Feb of 2004
Do not take this too hard but you need more years under your belt before you go out and start bolting routes. Since you just started you should not be in any hurry. Plenty of bolts already out there.
But who am I to judge you.
With only 13 years of climbing I put in 2 bolts. ( hand drilled from the ground up while hanging off a hook)
Do what you like. But please practice on a rock in your backyard before you go out and drill one for real
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grayhghost
Oct 23, 2004, 6:40 PM
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It is not a crime to bolt public property (BLM, NPS stone)
but some might be taken aback if you put a bolt ladder
up the Nose.
Bolting is less about rights than it is about ethics, and
ethics are taught through extensive training under a
more experienced person than yourself, not in a
classroom.
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mowgli_z
Oct 23, 2004, 6:51 PM
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here is the best advice I can give you:
goto a couple of your local privately owned climbing shops and ask the owner if they know who the local builders in your area are, or who is handing in photo-copy topo's of climbs. (don't ask to go with the owner or you'll pay a lot)
call them up and ask if you can be a helper. because there is a lot of work like carrying equip via hiking in gear or offer to donate your old climbing ropes to their cause. Just offer your time.
don't menten that you are interested in building yourself, just say you want to help in exchainge for topo's of crags that aren't in any books. once you're in with one builder you'll find yourself in with a bunch of builders.
after a couple of years of just helping, you'll be trained on the in's & out's of building.
remember there are a dozen ways to build & none are the right way, it's just what works best for you.
mowgli
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needrock
Oct 23, 2004, 7:20 PM
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dude, i'd be really carerful ou tthere boltinig routes. i enjoy a good sport climb, but you also have to take into account the pureness that is trad climbing. i'd give it some more thought and experience before i went around bolting. but if it is your property and you jsut wanted to put up some anchors, then i say do what you like.
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itakealot
Oct 23, 2004, 7:24 PM
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I have talked to enough climbers who have developed areas and have climbed on great routes and on routes where I was thinking "what the heck!"
Developing sport routes is a whole process of working the route and cleaning it. Deciding to place a bolt or two on a trad route is a whole ethics issue since the rating of the route depends on the fixed pro.
At first after reading the title of this post I thought "troll?" You need to get some seasoning before you take that bosch bulldog to the rock, and before developing new areas there are probably a thousand more sport routes for you to do first. I know when reading guidbooks it is easy to get F.A. fever.
Patience young man or your new route may be the topic of a "bolt chopping thread."
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cosmokramer
Oct 23, 2004, 8:14 PM
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Yikes!
This was not meant to be a troll post!
My lady has property with limestone cliffs on it, and I was just curious as to how to go about learning how to properly bolt a few routes/anchors, as I don't know anyone to teach me (if I did, I wouldn't have asked).
I would NEVER go out and bolt something that wasn't mine, even if I knew how!!!!!!!!!
Thanks anyway for those who offered constructive advice, and I apologize if I offended anyone.
Have a nice day!
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slavetogravity
Oct 23, 2004, 8:43 PM
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Chris McNamara's founder of the ASCA has a lot of usefull information regarding bolting and rebolting unsafe bolts.http://
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asandh
Oct 23, 2004, 9:29 PM
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:wink:
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mustclimb69
Oct 23, 2004, 10:50 PM
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I can link you to a bolt course.
if your interested and in canada let me know.
DO not take a bolt course from a climbing company. Hilti (?) will send out a rep who talks about rock types, bolts and places to place, and a climbing company (www.vectoronrope.com) will go over who to contact to bolt and how to bolt with the rep there.
They bring the guns and bolts and even a chunk of rock to play with.
Kind of a specialized course. but fun none the less.
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tgreene
Oct 23, 2004, 11:04 PM
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In reply to: Yikes! This was not meant to be a troll post! My lady has property with limestone cliffs on it, and I was just curious as to how to go about learning how to properly bolt a few routes/anchors, as I don't know anyone to teach me (if I did, I wouldn't have asked). I would NEVER go out and bolt something that wasn't mine, even if I knew how!!!!!!!!! Thanks anyway for those who offered constructive advice, and I apologize if I offended anyone. Have a nice day!
I think you will find a lot of interest from some of the more experienced members here, to have an opportunity to put up some decent FA's at virgin crags.
Oh, you'll have to provide the beer as well, or if lucky enough to get Curt, you'll need a good single malt! :wink:
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boltdude
Oct 23, 2004, 11:05 PM
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Please don't try to use the information on the ASCA website to try to learn how to bolt. The information we have on the site is intended for those who already know how to bolt but want to replace bolts.
There are many many factors in bolting, and they are often rock type specific - for instance, a large part of the information on the ASCA site was developed in granite areas and is relatively specific to granite.
Honestly, considering the cost of bolting gear and bolts - even for only a few routes on private land - you're almost undoubtedly better off using the money for some climbing trips!
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freakystyley
Oct 31, 2004, 4:18 PM
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I guess I will bite -
You will obviously do this on rap...so my $0.02 would be to get on rap, clean the line you like (brushing, pulling loose stuff, etc.), then, with the TR in place, climb it on TR, making chalk marks where you think a bolt would go. Climb it again, rechecking you marks, clipping stances, rock quality, etc. Have someone else climb it on TR to see if your marks are good places. Try not to put a bolt every move, just where needed, ie, protect a crux, etc. Fewer the better.
This is a chunk of limestone so chances are you have a nice slab with little natural pro, so, choice is to either leave it a mixed line or bolt it up.
Hey, it is your land so if others don't like it, bust them for tresspassing!
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billcoe_
Oct 31, 2004, 5:07 PM
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Freakystyly answered 1/2 of it real good. The other 1/2 could be found in RRadams post of over a year ago on the technical aspects of bolting. My search funciton isn't working or I'd link it.
The mechanics of bolting are simple, and no organizations exist for teaching sport bolting that I am aware of for that reason. I was a forman on a concrete construction crew and the closeest thing we got to teaching was a 2 min. explanation. (ie, Hey, You, pick up that drill and ....)
Basically, you (USING STAINLESS STEEL BOLTS AND ANCHORS TO BOLT) Drill a correct sized hole with a new or sharp drill and a rotohammer (a sloppy hole will still work with a 5 piece or a sleeve anchor, but not a wedge anchor). The mfg of the bolts will tell you what the correct size drill that is, note that there are some euro co. that do metric instead of inch series. They look very similar but are not. Don't buy a 10mm Petzel bit and pop a 3/8" bolt into it. 3/8 is mostly standard for Americans: if you own the property, you might consider 1/2" diameter bolts. Make sure the hanger you buy will accept that size. Longer is always better, but the strength gains from length are minimal compared to the strength gains from diameter. For a wedge anchor, you drill the hole in the correct location, blow out the dust, and lightly tap in the bolt and torque it to the recommended lbs. RRadam suggested a torque wrench be used and I concur.
For your application, consider Rawl (Powers) 5 piece stainless steel or glue ins. 5 piece is called a Power-Bolt.
http://www.powers.com/mechanical.html
Check out the strength ratings on them:
http://www.powers.com/pdfs/mechanical/06914.pdf
I prefer regular wedge anchors for around here, but I work for a distributor and can get American made 3/8 x 3-3/4 Stainless which have extra nibs on the side to minimise spinning, for .71 each. They work great for the Basalt in this area, although it is real, real rare a bolt gets place by me anymore. Theres only 2 areas around here I know of which are being developed, and it's pretty rare I get out to do a FA anymore. Usually I just hand out the bolts to someone I know will be out there a lot putting up routes, and that way I know stainless is being used and by whom. If you are near the ocean consider Titanium glue ins by Ushuba.
http://www.ushba.com/catalog/rock.html#tortuga
Note that glue-in strength is signifigantly more variable based on how bad you f* up the glueing in part. Epoxy is a messy experiance, and it takes more paying attention and care to mix and place, thus they are not utilised as often a a mechanical bolt. They are superior in many applications, and with a 25 KN strength, plenty strong enough if placed properly.
Good luck in bolting your property, may I suggest you wait until your social circle grows to include some old time climbers in your area. They most likely have the equipment and experiance to help on the projects you are looking at.
BTW, I really don't know anything about your place, if it isn't your property..........well, it's very very touchy, best not to bolt at all. More than likely the area was climbed out 20 years ago, and people want to leave it like it is for a reason. Folks get very angry when their ethics are shit on by a newcomer. Not saying thats the case here, because it isn't.
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old_apple_juice
Nov 1, 2004, 3:32 PM
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In the recent past there have been 2 bolt fairies who have danced their way through Thunder Bay.
The first was a European (I think) who went to a single pitch, trad friendly area within city limits and bolted a ton of climbs which were classics and remained previously unbolted by their FAers.
The bolts were promptly removed by the Alpine club and there are many in town who dislike "people who bolt" because of that guy.
Over the past summer another bolt fairy has arisen, bolting new climbs all over town. From what I've climbed, the bolts are very well placed and most of the climbs are either in areas which people don't frequent or FA's/new projects. I really enjoy having new sport routes around, some of which are at easier grades to help beginners get better.
I think that there's a fine balance between creating something which people will enjoy for years to come and stomping on other people's toes. Seems like something reasonable to think about when you're creating climbs.
Andrew
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the_dude
Nov 6, 2004, 9:17 AM
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You can pay me. I'll teach you to bolt. I charge $24.99/Hour plus hardware. If your interested I'll give you a list of hardware that is acceptable for my course. I'll supply the power drill, you supply the willingness to learn, and you can bolt my new projects for me. When the course is done I'll show you how much fun it is to send the route after you bolted it for me. Ha!
Cheers,
The dude
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oldfart
Nov 6, 2004, 11:27 AM
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Well, that was about 35 bucks worth of dumb, 2 cents at a time.
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