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skibabeage
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Nov 20, 2004, 7:53 PM
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overlord


Nov 20, 2004, 11:51 PM
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ok, thats a really mad move right there.

kudos to the man, especially because he probably didnt manufacture this route (at least you didnt mention it).


sublimeclimb


Nov 21, 2004, 12:10 PM
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truly amazing. and what a move! i dont think my arm bends that way...


petsfed


Nov 21, 2004, 1:06 PM
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That shot is from L'autre Cote du Ciel (The Other Side of the Sky) which according to the Climbing expose was his last chipped route. Its still a crazy move, but I wanna see pictures of the new route.


petsfed


Nov 21, 2004, 1:07 PM
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That shot is from L'autre Cote du Ciel (The Other Side of the Sky) which according to the Climbing expose was his last chipped route. Its still a crazy move, but I wanna see pictures of the new route.


mattm


Nov 22, 2004, 9:11 AM
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Awesome - I gotta say my impression of this guy has changed a lot in the past 10 years. When I was starting to get into climbing in the early 90's as a kid I was reading all the Rock and Ice and Climbing mags I could. MAn the rumor mills churned away. Anyway - I was left with the impression that Fred was an evil cheating frenchie with GIGANTIC ARMS who chips and over grades. In fact I clearly remember a "masta beta" article that reamed the guy. That Climbing article a while back really changed my mind and since then I'm very skeptical of magazines and their "ethical" commentaries. I actually canceled my Alpinist because they always seemed to be dropping "hints" of what they felt was superior. Don't preach to me - I like thinking for myself so give it to me straight and I'll make up my own mind.

Anyway - Great stuff Fred R. Cranking for a decade at that level puts him in an elite field of climbers.


hasbeen


Nov 22, 2004, 11:28 AM
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Re: Fred Rouhling Ticks Another 9a [In reply to]
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That Climbing article a while back really changed my mind and since then I'm very skeptical of magazines and their "ethical" commentaries.

i stopped reading climbing mags years ago because of this. essentially, they have an agenda about what they believe is a good story and will sell. it's the same with regards to whom they believe should be the sports heros and villains. in between, you get a lot of ludicrous drivel. as soon as you start meeting the people you've been reading about you can't help notice that the liberties taken in the press may as well be fiction. what's funny (or perhaps sad, and occasionally dangerous access wise) is how much of the influenced crowd views climbing, climbers, and access issues. most of the ethical banter that trickles into the public and, therefore, the land use management agencies, comes from the second hand rumor mill and is blown way out of proportion.

i guess it's like a lot of things where there are those who do and those who spew. the ones doing are too busy to bother with what's being said about them. the ones spewing are, in general, too lazy to actually do anything themselves but criticize from the comfort of their sofa.

in regards to rouhling, i was writing a fair bit back then for this sport and you couldn't get anyone interested in anything the guy was doing. he was completely discredited. if you sent the mags something positive or vindicating they would not print it though they'd gobble up slander without so much as a cursory phone call (climbing mags didn't used to attempt to fact check anything and would not even do it if requested). it was really unbelievable.

i will say that climbing did print (and send journalists to write it appears) the rouhling story recently, which i did track down and read. so maybe they are changing their stance. i haven't read a climbing mag since michael kennedy was editor so it could be better now. still, i'd recommend that you keep an open mind about what you read in the mags.

also, i've worked with outside, which is far worse. be very skeptical of anything in that rag. not that it all sucks or is wrong, it's not. but they print a load of fictionalized crap under the guise of journalism. they once called me to verify a story. so the fact check, yet, i did not give them the angle they wanted to print so they ignored me--even though i was there--and used someone else's reference who did not like the person, was not there, but was willing to lend his name to their agenda. very strange.


jdouble


Nov 22, 2004, 4:00 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
That Climbing article a while back really changed my mind and since then I'm very skeptical of magazines and their "ethical" commentaries.

i stopped reading climbing mags years ago because of this. essentially, they have an agenda about what they believe is a good story and will sell. it's the same with regards to whom they believe should be the sports heros and villains. in between, you get a lot of ludicrous drivel. as soon as you start meeting the people you've been reading about you can't help notice that the liberties taken in the press may as well be fiction. what's funny (or perhaps sad, and occasionally dangerous access wise) is how much of the influenced crowd views climbing, climbers, and access issues. most of the ethical banter that trickles into the public and, therefore, the land use management agencies, comes from the second hand rumor mill and is blown way out of proportion.

i guess it's like a lot of things where there are those who do and those who spew. the ones doing are too busy to bother with what's being said about them. the ones spewing are, in general, too lazy to actually do anything themselves but criticize from the comfort of their sofa.

in regards to rouhling, i was writing a fair bit back then for this sport and you couldn't get anyone interested in anything the guy was doing. he was completely discredited. if you sent the mags something positive or vindicating they would not print it though they'd gobble up slander without so much as a cursory phone call (climbing mags didn't used to attempt to fact check anything and would not even do it if requested). it was really unbelievable.

i will say that climbing did print (and send journalists to write it appears) the rouhling story recently, which i did track down and read. so maybe they are changing their stance. i haven't read a climbing mag since michael kennedy was editor so it could be better now. still, i'd recommend that you keep an open mind about what you read in the mags.

also, i've worked with outside, which is far worse. be very skeptical of anything in that rag. not that it all sucks or is wrong, it's not. but they print a load of fictionalized crap under the guise of journalism. they once called me to verify a story. so the fact check, yet, i did not give them the angle they wanted to print so they ignored me--even though i was there--and used someone else's reference who did not like the person, was not there, but was willing to lend his name to their agenda. very strange.

Thanks for the insider perspective. Unfortunatley I think you could simply replace CNN and FOX news with your above examples and all would still hold true........Comes down to the $$$$$$$ :cry:


jcshaggy


Nov 23, 2004, 3:30 AM
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Great to hear that Fred R. is still cranking hard!Respect!

Anyway, most climbing magazines don't appear to actually have trained journalists writing articles but rather climbers with a flair for writing. That is where the shortfall occurs. Maybe that has changed?

Ego's and opinions get in the way. As a journalsit, I would have been discredited and shunned by my peers if I wrote something as inaccurate and biased as some of articles that appeared about the guy.

Glad he has ignored the negative stuff and continued to climb-a lesson to us all.


jcshaggy


Nov 23, 2004, 3:37 AM
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Excuse the spelling :)


alvchen


Nov 23, 2004, 11:30 PM
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I believe this is a pic of the climb:

http://www.planetfear.com/.../fred-rouling-9a.jpg
Photo courtesy Bouldering Info and Fred Moix


prezwoodz


Nov 24, 2004, 8:14 AM
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I also read the article about this guy and the article gave me a good amount of respect for the guy. As far as the writers go it is hard to go in with a feeling that someone is a chipping cheating lying manic who could eat you if he felt like and come out thinking hes one of the nicest unegotistic people you have ever met. and thats what i got from the article.


petsfed


Nov 24, 2004, 9:11 AM
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In reply to:
I believe this is a pic of the climb:

http://www.planetfear.com/.../fred-rouling-9a.jpg

That's frickin' insane.


d.ben
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Nov 24, 2004, 9:55 AM
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That move is inspiring.


f
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could you reedit the post to put the right credit? Courtesy of http://bouldering.info photo by Fred Moix..

Thanks!


rocloco


Nov 24, 2004, 11:00 AM
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Whooooaaaa, is that his left PALM or the back of his left hand???? Hard to tell, but if it's his plam that's the sickest hold I've ever seen.


overlord


Nov 24, 2004, 11:17 AM
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Whooooaaaa, is that his left PALM or the back of his left hand???? Hard to tell, but if it's his plam that's the sickest hold I've ever seen.

it looks like a palm to me. talk about a supee gaston. sick. followed by what looks like a bad undercling. just a bit sicker.


f
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thanks! perfect if you replace planetfear by bouldering.info .. more pics soon!


gnarled_hands


Nov 25, 2004, 6:36 PM
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Yeah he sure cranks....has he done any other hard climbs in the past besides sport?


f
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more pics now at http://bouldering.info


reno


Nov 26, 2004, 4:28 PM
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Re: Fred Rouhling Ticks Another 9a [In reply to]
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The climb involves a f8b+ boulder start of eight moves, followed by a f8b+/8c wall climb in a sequence of 26 moves for a total of 20m

That's the part I don't get.

How does a climb that involves a hardest move of 8c get rated as a 9a?

If I climb a trad line that is lots of 5.8 moves, with a 5.9 stretch, do I get to rate it a 5.10?

Nope... It's a 5.9 climb.

Where's the math here?


petsfed


Nov 26, 2004, 9:15 PM
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The climb involves a f8b+ boulder start of eight moves, followed by a f8b+/8c wall climb in a sequence of 26 moves for a total of 20m

That's the part I don't get.

How does a climb that involves a hardest move of 8c get rated as a 9a?

If I climb a trad line that is lots of 5.8 moves, with a 5.9 stretch, do I get to rate it a 5.10?

Nope... It's a 5.9 climb.

Where's the math here?

Depends on where you are. To this day I maintain that Supercrack of the Desert should be 5.8 (considering what else is 5.8 in the creek). A 5.10 move after 80 feet of steep 5.9 will sure as hell feel harder than if it was right off the deck. Same case with hard sport climbing. If you're really pumped (as is the case with hard sport climbing) everything will feel harder than if you toproped and hangdogged every move. That's why Sphinx Crack rarely sees a true redpoint. Stopping to place gear is hard and if you don't have to, the climb will feel easier.


karlbaba


Nov 27, 2004, 1:38 AM
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In reply to:
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The climb involves a f8b+ boulder start of eight moves, followed by a f8b+/8c wall climb in a sequence of 26 moves for a total of 20m

That's the part I don't get.

How does a climb that involves a hardest move of 8c get rated as a 9a?

If I climb a trad line that is lots of 5.8 moves, with a 5.9 stretch, do I get to rate it a 5.10?

Nope... It's a 5.9 climb.

Where's the math here?

Right, it shouldn't be harder to do 20 one arm pullups in a row if you can do one.

If you can multiply 9 times 9 in your head, it shouldn't be a problem to multiply 9 times 9 times 6 times 23 times 21 times 7 in your head.

If ratings are to be real, they must reflect what the real difficulty adds up to, just dogmatic equations reflecting theory.

Peace

karl


thomasribiere


Nov 27, 2004, 4:32 AM
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How does a climb that involves a hardest move of 8c get rated as a 9a?
reno, it's probably because it's considered in France that's a Xy bouldering problem is considered a Xy+2 route problem.
Which means that a f5a = 5c sport climb, or a f8b = 9a sport climb.

Of course, the problem of what we call bouldering is raised again in this kind of rating. Small boulders use force = anaerobia = creatine-phosphate. One pitch sport climbing routes use short resistance = lactic aerobiosis = aerobic glycolysis. High balls, long traverses (= more than 10 moves or so).
BUT a sport climbing route can have a short very powerful portion (considered as bouldering), even if after 10 seconds of climbing the energetic pathway is not CPK anymore, but glycogen / glucose.
If jt512, I guess he will jump on what I said!

So the explaination of the ratings I suppose!


overlord


Nov 27, 2004, 6:59 AM
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the "old school" (at least here) way was that the route was given a grade that was the grade of the hardest move. so if you got a 5.10 you didnt really know if youll have trouble getting on it but and then enjoy some slabby jugs, or will it hit you with something just before the anchors or if its a sustained sequence of 5.10 moves. so theres quite a difference in grades between routes even at the same crag.

but the new rating way takes fatigue into consideration and the grades are thus much more consistant.

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