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johnson6102002
Dec 15, 2004, 1:13 AM
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In reply to: gymification of the outdoors. If you want to climb in a gym, go to a gym.
very good line and a funny word gymification :lol:
follow this advice
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unrooted
Dec 15, 2004, 1:19 AM
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Indian creek and here in logan we sometimes have a rock with the name either painted or etched with the name of the route. I don't think every route needs it, but it is nice to be able to orient yourself, but paint the base of a climb is kinda dumb. I wish we had as much good limestone as the euros though.
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ikefromla
Dec 15, 2004, 1:31 AM
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use chalk instead. i cannot believe nobody else said that. at the RRQ (in the hell that is the 909 area code), the routes had suggested grades at the base, in CHALK. I have seen this practice at plenty of sport crags during route development. it is a way to communicate the info without permanently scarring the rock. noshit :roll:
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timd
Dec 15, 2004, 2:06 AM
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The first thing I noticed is everyone is on a top rope 3 feet off the ground, 3 feet apart on paintd rock. I do agree use chalk to mark a route don't paint or etch the rock. It doesn't matter how visible it is from 6 feet away. Most climbers and non-climbers don't want to see that sort of vandalism in nature. If you want to paint graffiti go find a bridge or even better paint your house. I know when my son is old enough to go and enjoy the outdoors I don't him seeing painted or etched rock. The only painted landscapes I want to see will be on a canvas.
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far_east_climber
Dec 15, 2004, 2:10 AM
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I don't think it's acceptable and I wouldn't do it. It would be more wise to hang a topo off a tree instead of permanently defacing the rock. However, painting on rocks is common around here. Around here, we have a strange man who writes Chinese poetry at the base of cliffs. I find it kind of creepy to be honest as nobody knows who it is and why its done. It's even found on some isolated rocks deep in the jungles around here.
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snaffel
Dec 15, 2004, 2:15 AM
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How come no one is mentioning the ad that was paid for by a private party placed in the Rock And Ad (oopps) I mean Rock and Ice mag. Ethics issue showing a place with the route names written below each climb. most of which do no appear in a guide book.
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amber
Dec 15, 2004, 2:17 AM
Post #57 of 100
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i (heart) dirt's idea
In reply to: why not just DOME the area, install air conditioning, have escalators up and down the cliff, and valet parking 20 feet from cliffside? You'd have a climbing caddy, who would carry your gear, and know all the route info by heart, including what gear to take up each onw, and how far it is from one placement to the next. |
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timd
Dec 15, 2004, 2:27 AM
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Hey Dirt, great idea! may I propose one improvement? I say let's carpet the floor as well
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dirtineye
Dec 15, 2004, 4:33 AM
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In reply to: i (heart) dirt's idea In reply to: why not just DOME the area, install air conditioning, have escalators up and down the cliff, and valet parking 20 feet from cliffside? You'd have a climbing caddy, who would carry your gear, and know all the route info by heart, including what gear to take up each onw, and how far it is from one placement to the next.
(heart) my idea, (heart) me! You seem like a nice girl, except fpr the aids climbing, but there is a cure for that! Seriously you should come to the dirty south and try the mixed free/aid routes at the BSF. Aid is for when you can't free.
In reply to: Hey Dirt, great idea! may I propose one improvement? I say let's carpet the floor as well
Now how did I miss that???? Good thinking! Of course the carpet will have to match the paint job for every climb, you know.
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salamanizer
Dec 15, 2004, 6:11 AM
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I see the point, I just don't think its a good idea. It really is unnecessary, people have been climbing routes without knowing how hard it is for a long time. Yeah, that could possibly get you in trouble sooner or later. So then you have to ditch some gear, big deal. Its a learning experience worth haveing.
If I saw anyone painting up any of my crags I would probably have to kick their a$$ on general principal.
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timd
Dec 15, 2004, 6:18 AM
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Hang em high!
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gremlin
Dec 15, 2004, 6:27 AM
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I dunno, I guess I'm just a weird one, but I find the best looking cliffs and buildings are the ones that DO have chalk and such on them. I walk around campus and see some of the buildings, and then I walk past a few of the ones that are frequently climbed with chalk all over the stone and think to myself "Oh hell yea." I don't climb for the beauty of nature, I climb for the beauty of climbing.
A small tasteful tag painted on the crag wouldn't upset me in the slightest, just like seeing chalk on a cliff doesn't scream "dirty facking climbers mucking up my nature" to me. There is a big difference between trash and bright spray paint all over the place marking holds compared to a small bit of greyish paint marking a route name at the bottom.
I've climbed in Sandrock, Alabama(?) and that place is spraypainted to hell and back by the local rednecks proclaiming their love for whoever they happen to be dating, or their hate for certain ethnicities, and it didn't ruin my climbing at all. Sure, it didn't need to be there, but it's just paint, and the rock was still great.
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coldclimb
Dec 15, 2004, 6:48 AM
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In the area I love best, if I saw anyone painting the rock, they'd have a mondo cam on a sling to deal with quickly. Not acceptable here. I suppose it probably is a regional distinction though, as evidenced by the post above. I'd rather it didn't happen, but you can do whatever you want to your own local crags, as long as you don't bring it here. ;)
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michelleh
Dec 15, 2004, 6:56 AM
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Here in South Africa, we do not have a very unified climbing community. Most sport areas end up with the name written on each route (trad routes remain paint-free) and this came up in a recent bolting ethics discussion.
The suggestion to use dogtags on the first bolt was made at this bolting discussion and I think this is an excellent suggestion. If the bolt is going to be there anyway, why not add the route name there? This doesn't create additional eyesores and still allows people to identify where they are.
When my husband first started to climb, we visited a new area in another province (state). Because the routes were so close together and difficult to identify, he started on a route many grades above his limit and ended up decking whilst clipping the second bolt (rope stretch). Luckily he wasn't hurt. but as a beginner climber, this severely dented his confidence and set him back in his climbing.
The point I want to make is, if there was some form of identification, even on only one route on that face, we wouldn't have gotten onto a climb that was so far above his climbing level. I think there is room for identifying routes, we all make mistakes and we want to avoid costly mistakes. But we need to keep the identification as unobtrusive as possible because yes, we are there because it is nature and we want to enjoy it as such.
Just my 2c worth.
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hugepedro
Dec 15, 2004, 7:21 AM
Post #66 of 100
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Paint away. I mean really, should climbing not be as safe and convenient as bowling? Hell, they have the lanes numbered! If they didn't, we'd all be wandering about rolling our balls willy nilly all over the place. What a tragedy that would be.
:roll:
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that there are climbers who think this is a good idea. Makes me sad though.
Answer this. What have you lost if you can't find a particular route on a particular day?
I've been confused and off route plenty of times. Guess what I did? I asked questions. I studied the book and the rock some more. I found another route to climb that I could identify, or I climbed something anyway not knowing what it was. The horror. The horror.
And the link to that picture a while back: what I noticed was people hanging on ropes, nobody actually CLIMBING. Not surprising that those people would enjoy climbing somewhere folks find it acceptable to deface the rock.
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hugepedro
Dec 15, 2004, 7:38 AM
Post #67 of 100
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Oh, and here's little story for those who think that this sort of thing is ok, or at least ok as long as it doesn't happen at your crag.
A while ago, in the early '90's, climbing was banned at one of my favorite places, and the best place within a days driving distance from several states - the Wichita Mountains Wildlife Refuge in Oklahoma. Since all human activity on a wildlife refuge is supposed to be about viewing and enjoying the wildlife, it seemed reasonable to the land manager that climbing was not compatible with that purpose.
It took a lot of hard work by the climbers who organized to oppose the ban, but after much effort they were able to convince the land managers that not only is the enjoyment of nature and wildlife an integral part of climbing, but climbers as a group are generally people who respect nature and hold it dear. They convinced the manager that climbers were one of his BEST customers out of all his visitors. Now, what would have happened if instead that land manager's experience with or impression of climbers was that we are people who have so little respect for nature that we would stoop to actually painting the rock for our own convenience?
For the most part, I agree with the idea of local ethics. But, we have to understand something. When ethics degrade to the point people are doing things like painting the rock, they can have an impact on climbing access that stretches beyond one local area.
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climbsomething
Dec 15, 2004, 7:44 AM
Post #68 of 100
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So, what do you guys think of Gill arrows?
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hugepedro
Dec 15, 2004, 8:26 AM
Post #69 of 100
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In reply to: So, what do you guys think of Gill arrows?
I've never noticed any arrows on Fred Beckey's routes.
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healyje
Dec 15, 2004, 9:08 AM
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Here's a novel idea - don't worry about the name or rating of routes before you climb them. Instead, how about learning the skills necessary to simply walk up to a rock and have a remote clue as to what you may or may not be able to climb based on just looking at it with an eye towards your knowledge of your capabilities at that moment.
Then you wouldn't be dependent on other people to tell you what you can climb or not - you'd be the judge of that. Would you epic sometimes? You betcha, sometimes you'd totally misjudge a route and you'll either not get off the ground or pretty soon you'll realize you have to bail. Other times you'll find it's way easier than it looked. Other times - and here's the kicker - other times you'll surprise the shit out yourself and find you've just climbed harder than you ever thought you could.
For god's sake people, is it simply the ego of the FA parties that everyone is going along with here or is it a basic lack of skills that leads to this level of lunatic group think? What's next? Neon signs, kiosks, route badges for your hard man collection, and wheel chair ramps for ADA compliance. Get a fucking life and a shred of collective self respect - these were once natural spaces and we should attempt to mar and brand them as little as humanly possible. Do you really think we are the only people that enjoy these places?
And you wonder why there are access issues? Just that this might be actually be construed by anyone as a legitimate discussion is exactly why...
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johnson6102002
Dec 15, 2004, 7:19 PM
Post #71 of 100
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In reply to: In reply to: Hey Dirt, great idea! may I propose one improvement? I say let's carpet the floor as well Now how did I miss that???? Good thinking! Of course the carpet will have to match the paint job for every climb, you know.
are you going to put paint on every hold too so you will know exactly which ones to use? and the carpet is so u dont get lost making ur way to the next route sounds like a great idea i should open one of these things up
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jeffstephan
Dec 15, 2004, 7:46 PM
Post #72 of 100
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In reply to: The worst thing I have seen is for boulder problems where there are little painted arrows to distinguish routes. Often when problems are close together you will get multicolor designations and top outs. Peroxide
Did Gill's white arrows start this trend in Europe?
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dirtineye
Dec 16, 2004, 12:06 AM
Post #73 of 100
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Hey Dirt, great idea! may I propose one improvement? I say let's carpet the floor as well Now how did I miss that???? Good thinking! Of course the carpet will have to match the paint job for every climb, you know. are you going to put paint on every hold too so you will know exactly which ones to use? and the carpet is so u dont get lost making ur way to the next route sounds like a great idea i should open one of these things up
Absolutely, in the (not so) brave new climbing world, there can be no doubt as to where to go next!
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dirtineye
Dec 16, 2004, 12:09 AM
Post #74 of 100
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In reply to: So, what do you guys think of Gill arrows?
You mean his chalk arrows?
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clandestino
Dec 16, 2004, 12:58 AM
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.....
For myself, the homeland of bouldering is in Fort Collins, Colorado, USA. I had read "Masters of Rock" so many times, I knew all the words before I read them, but I was so inspired and motivated I read them again anyway. John Gill's, 'The Left & Right Eliminator', 'The Pinch' on the Mental Block. What names! One of my favourite articles of all time was of John Long's story of 'The Pinch', it just looks so good and hard.
Even if you go there now, you can see the small white arrows, Gill painted on the rock all those years ago to show where the boulder problems go. I was there the first time in '82.I took the book up to the boulders and ticked the photos and problems off one by one. ...(jerry Moffat)
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