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climbchickky
Jun 12, 2002, 1:16 AM
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what is the proper technique for feeding rope out to a leader using the gri gri?
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apollodorus
Jun 12, 2002, 1:32 AM
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The rope I have (11mm Mammut Flex) feeds easily enough that I can just pull rope from the Gri Gri with my left hand, while letting it slip through my right (braking) hand. However, when feeding stiffer rope (i.e. my partner's rope) through, I have to hold the mechanism down while pulling the rope. This means than I have to let go of the braking end of the rope. Normally this would be a safely issue, except that the Gri Gri locks up even when slowly pulling the stiff rope; a fall would tend to lock it up even more positively. You can also hold the mechanism closed with your braking hand still on the braking side of the rope, and pull slack for the leader.
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jt512
Jun 12, 2002, 1:42 AM
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To feed the rope out when the leader is climbing, you simultaneously pull rope out with the guide hand while pushing rope into the device with the brake hand. It takes a little practice to do this smoothly.
The above method, however, will not get rope to the leader fast enough when he pulls up rope to make a clip. In this situation, take your brake hand off the rope (yes, you read that right), bring it underneath the gri-gri, cradling the gri-gri in the palm of your brake hand with your fingertips wrapped around the device. Use your fingertips to hold the cam open by pressing on the round knob on the lever. Then, using the guide hand, yank out as much rope as the leader needs. As soon as you have enough rope out, get your brake hand back on the brake side of the rope.
The above assumes that you have the gri-gri on your harness correctly; specifically, that it is attached to your belay loop, not through your tie-in points, and that the gri-gri is right-side-up, with the lever on top, not bottom.
There are pictures of all this on the Petzl website.
-Jay
[ This Message was edited by: jt512 on 2002-06-11 19:15 ]
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dsafanda
Jun 12, 2002, 1:50 AM
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Wow...Jay described the technique perfectly!
I use a Gri-Gri for sport climbing belays all the time(outside and inside). On trad climbs where the leader is often out of view and out of voice range I find the Gri-Gri to be more trouble than it's worth.
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jt512
Jun 12, 2002, 1:52 AM
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Quote:
The rope I have (11mm Mammut Flex) feeds easily enough that I can just pull rope from the Gri Gri with my left hand, while letting it slip through my right (braking) hand.
Most ropes won't feed smoothly like that. You should simultaneously push the rope through with your brake hand. With a little practice, you can feed any rope smoothly using this technique.
Quote:
However, when feeding stiffer rope (i.e. my partner's rope) through, I have to hold the mechanism down while pulling the rope. This means than I have to let go of the braking end of the rope. Normally this would be a safely issue...
It is a safety issue!
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...except that the Gri Gri locks up even when slowly pulling the stiff rope...
That is not the issue. The issue is that your brake hand is holding the cam open. You should not be teaching a beginning gri-gri user to keep her hand on the cam to feed out rope, except when a leader needs slack fast to clip. In a fall, the natural tendency is to grip down with both hands. If the brake hand is on the cam, the cam will be held open and the climber will be dropped. This is undoubtedly the most common cause of gri-gri accidents.
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You can also hold the mechanism closed [sic] with your braking hand still on the braking side of the rope, and pull slack for the leader.
You mean hold it open. First, you suggest a dangerous technique, then when suggesting the correct technique, you confuse the issue by using incorrect terminology.
-Jay
[ This Message was edited by: jt512 on 2002-06-12 11:09 ]
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victorblanco
Jun 12, 2002, 3:32 AM
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let's get it straight: the gri-gri is not an auto pilot. you can still deck someone if you are not attentive. use it is the best way to learn. try to practice in the gym or outside, top roping your partners. always ask questions. a little embarassment is better than the alternate outcome if you use it incorrectly.
i use the gri gri at the sport crag, on trad routes, developing routes and when rapelling.
the scariest thing is holding the mechanism to feed the rope. i too try to feed the rope as if using a tuber, but, that is not always possible if the rope is thick or dirty or your partner clips fast. the most important thing is to watch the climber and anticipate his/her clip.
i would not trade this piece of equipment for anything except maybe a trip to spain or australia.
[ This Message was edited by: victorblanco on 2002-06-11 20:37 ]
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hang_man
Jun 12, 2002, 8:29 AM
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wow.. i'll stick to my ATC!
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krustyklimber
Jun 12, 2002, 8:45 AM
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Way to go Jay!
Folks Jay/jt512 is THE MAN when it comes to the Gri-Gri!
He has perfectly and eloquently explained the proper useage of the best thing to happen to climbing since the harness! I love the Gri-Gri! It is the only belay device I'll use while sleeping!!!
Hang-man will you stick to the horse and buugy too?!?
Jeff
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harry
Jun 12, 2002, 8:35 PM
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because it takes so long (or longer) to feed the rope out the proper way, would it be better to anticipate him going for the clip and letting out before he actually goes for it. It seems the only way but i sure as hell wouldnt want that done to me. Someone experienced please say something!
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phlyfisher
Jun 12, 2002, 9:48 PM
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The grigri is not that complicated to use, however I think it is difficult to explain over the internet. Although jt did a good job explaining it. Your best bet to learn the proper technique is to go to your local climbing shop and have someone who knows how to use it show you how. Or at least sit at home and play around with it to the point at which you can feed rope through the camming mechanism easily and not get the rope caught. Once you've learned how to use a grigri you wouldn't want to use anything else for single pitch routes. At least thats the way I feel.
Climb on climba
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jt512
Jun 13, 2002, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
because it takes so long (or longer) to feed the rope out the proper way, would it be better to anticipate him going for the clip and letting out before he actually goes for it. It seems the only way but i sure as hell wouldnt want that done to me. Someone experienced please say something!
If you re-read my explanation I think you'll see that it doesn't take longer to pay out rope for a clip with a gri-gri than with an ATC, except for the split second that it takes to move your brake hand from the rope to underneath the gri-gri. Ideally, you should anticipate the leader needing slack for a clip by an instant. Letting out slack earlier than necessary for a high clip, puts the leader at risk for a long fall for a longer time than necessary.
-Jay
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dsafanda
Jun 13, 2002, 1:32 AM
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This issue of anticipating the leader is the reason I'm not crazy about using the Gri-Gri for trad routes. When belaying at the gym or a single pitch sport route it is easy to yard out the perfect amount of rope at the exact time that the leader is reaching for the rope. You really don't need to anticipate or guess before the leader does. You just need to be a very attentive belayer. However, if your leader is 100 feet out in some god awful flaring chimney and you haven't seen him/her since he left the belay I still prefer the touch and feel of an ATC. That's just me. Maybe one day I will change my tune.
It goes with out saying that for aid belays there is no other belay device worth considering.
[ This Message was edited by: dsafanda on 2002-06-12 18:33 ]
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jt512
Jun 13, 2002, 2:03 AM
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David, I see what you are saying. I don't use a gri-gri for trad because, in a hard fall it doesn't let rope slip through the way an ATC does, and the resulting static beay can put too much stress on a marginal piece of pro.
-Jay
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kevlar
Jun 13, 2002, 4:51 AM
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just having a grigri on my harness is enough to impress the chicks...lol... and when used properly, and it does take some thinking to set the rope properly..especially on night climbs... it is indispensible " don't leave home without it" Welllllll explained Jay...thankyou... and good climbing
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bouldertoad
Jun 13, 2002, 5:50 AM
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To feed out rope properly while using a grgri was explained perfectly exept for one thing. Never put all of your fingers over the mechanism when feeding rope. If you use all of your fingers the strength of your hand is strong enough to prevent the cam form engaging if the leader happens to fall when you are feeding rope. i hold my hand under eht grigri as mentioned but only use my index finger to hold the cam down. This is enough force to hold down the cam but not to much that the cam will not engage in a fall ( ihave had it happen)
As far as using the grigri for trad i rarely use one for the following reasons. First being it takes to much force to make the grigri slip. By this i mean that it only takes about 800 pounds or so before a brake hand on a conventional tube style device begins to slip thus giving a softer cathc where as a grigri makes the belay nearly static. What this means in layman's terms is that the grigri could exert to much force on that small piece you placed possibly causing it to rip out. Besides if you ar doing muti-pitch trad then you still have to carry a different device for the rappel or use the munter hitch.
Hope this helps at least a little
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