|
easton
Dec 30, 2004, 6:48 AM
Post #1 of 24
(3855 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 27, 2004
Posts: 250
|
I've read a lot about all these world class climbers working routes. How do they protect the FA of a really hard route? Surely not with trad gear on a 5.14? I can't believe they bolt on lead, so how do they do it?
I know, stupid question, but it's late, so there you go.
|
|
|
|
|
grimpiperx
Dec 30, 2004, 6:54 AM
Post #2 of 24
(3855 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 30, 2004
Posts: 330
|
They Bolt the route on rappel(Rap bolting) or they do crazy Aid climbing off of hooks and the like to stand on while they drill.
|
|
|
|
|
kalcario
Dec 30, 2004, 7:00 AM
Post #3 of 24
(3855 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 25, 2002
Posts: 1601
|
You're right, they don't. The bolts go in on rappel as a rule, unless getting to and/or descending from the top of the cliff is a bigger hassle than doing it on lead. And rarely is the guy who bolted the really hard route the same one who sends it, for the reason that hanging around for days drilling on rappel, bolting, cleaning etc is even worse for your strength and endurance than trad climbing is (had to get that in)...
|
|
|
|
|
curt
Dec 30, 2004, 7:12 AM
Post #4 of 24
(3855 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2002
Posts: 18275
|
In reply to: You're right, they don't. The bolts go in on rappel as a rule, unless getting to and/or descending from the top of the cliff is a bigger hassle than doing it on lead. And rarely is the guy who bolted the really hard route the same one who sends it, for the reason that hanging around for days drilling on rappel, bolting, cleaning etc is even worse for your strength and endurance than trad climbing is (had to get that in)...
Joe is right. These things are made possible by cheating.
Curt
|
|
|
|
|
holdplease2
Dec 30, 2004, 7:24 AM
Post #5 of 24
(3855 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 18, 2002
Posts: 1733
|
When your balls are that big, they work kinda like a crash pad.
-Kate.
|
|
|
|
|
atpeaceinbozeman
Jan 1, 2005, 5:48 PM
Post #6 of 24
(3855 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 17, 2002
Posts: 478
|
I'd like to add that Sonnie Trotter redpointed East Face of Monkey Face (13d trad). I know it wasn't the FA, but the first redpoint and was protected with RPs, small cams, and nasty skill. 8^)
http://www.climbing.com/news/troteastface/
Tom
|
|
|
|
|
asandh
Jan 1, 2005, 6:31 PM
Post #7 of 24
(3855 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 13, 2002
Posts: 788
|
:shock:
|
|
|
|
|
dirtineye
Jan 1, 2005, 8:50 PM
Post #8 of 24
(3855 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 29, 2003
Posts: 5590
|
In reply to: When your balls are that big, they work kinda like a crash pad. -Kate.
I think it is the highly inflated sporto egos that work as crash pads.
|
|
|
|
|
d.ben
Deleted
Jan 1, 2005, 9:23 PM
Post #9 of 24
(3855 views)
Shortcut
Registered:
Posts:
|
If I applied Curt's climbing ethics to my sex life I'd have 10 kids by now. How can you cheat when protecting something? If you don't get injured then you succeed, it's not a game.
|
|
|
|
|
bandidopeco
Jan 1, 2005, 10:50 PM
Post #11 of 24
(3855 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 17, 2004
Posts: 257
|
There's a story in the Petzl catalogue about these two euros who put up a 7 pitch route all on lead. the ratings for the pitches go: 8b, 7c+, 8b+, 8a+, 7b, 8a, 7b+. It also has a pic of one of the guys drilling with one hand, holding on to some hold with his other while standing in aiders.
The route is called El Viaje de los Locos and 8b+ is about 14a.
|
|
|
|
|
thegreytradster
Jan 1, 2005, 11:53 PM
Post #12 of 24
(3855 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 7, 2003
Posts: 2151
|
In reply to: ....surely there's a more appropriate forum than Climbing History for this thread, if the answer is "bolting on rappel."
You get the gold star!
|
|
|
|
|
jgill
Jan 2, 2005, 3:18 AM
Post #13 of 24
(3855 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 18, 2002
Posts: 653
|
jgill moved this thread from Climbing History & Trivia to General.
|
|
|
|
|
onelung
Jan 2, 2005, 3:44 AM
Post #15 of 24
(3855 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 8, 2002
Posts: 436
|
There's a great answer to this in Alpinist #9 the current issue. The story is of "Beat Kammerlander" from Austria, sets hard routes and would never "bolt on rappel". "Always ground up, Always Free." The dood is in his forties and FA's 14's while bolting on lead from hooks.
Its nice to see some higher standards still being respected.
bill
|
|
|
|
|
kalcario
Jan 2, 2005, 4:57 AM
Post #16 of 24
(3855 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 25, 2002
Posts: 1601
|
*Beat Kammerlander" from Austria, sets hard routes and would never "bolt on rappel". "Always ground up, Always Free." The dood is in his forties and FA's 14's while bolting on lead from hooks.
Its nice to see some higher standards still being respected. *
All well and good when you're working with pristine, glacier-scoured stone that requires no cleaning of lichen or loose rock, but there's a little more to it than that when you're interested in leaving a finished product that actually is a finished product, and not a ground-up botch job with bad bolts and loose rock.
And yes, climbing standards are much higher in Europe than here - because they rejected ground-up as silly and arbitrary unless the situation actually called for it - as a result you have guys like Kammerlander. Does Fox Climbing News (Alpinist) tell you how he got that good in the first place? I bet it wasn't by hanging from skyhooks...
|
|
|
|
|
salamanizer
Jan 2, 2005, 5:16 AM
Post #17 of 24
(3855 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 3, 2004
Posts: 879
|
In reply to: All well and good when you're working with pristine, glacier-scoured stone that requires no cleaning of lichen or loose rock, but there's a little more to it than that when you're interested in leaving a finished product that actually is a finished product, and not a ground-up botch job with bad bolts and loose rock.
Took the words right form my key pad.
Bolting chossy sandstone on lead is suicide, not to say I havn't tried it :wink:
|
|
|
|
|
onelung
Jan 2, 2005, 10:32 PM
Post #18 of 24
(3855 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 8, 2002
Posts: 436
|
In reply to: In reply to: All well and good when you're working with pristine, glacier-scoured stone that requires no cleaning of lichen or loose rock, but there's a little more to it than that when you're interested in leaving a finished product that actually is a finished product, and not a ground-up botch job with bad bolts and loose rock. Took the words right form my key pad. Bolting chossy sandstone on lead is suicide, not to say I havn't tried it :wink:
Well Folks, we all do what we can. You set the routes, I respect that. I have better odds of ever getting on one of your routes than Beats. You gotta love that name. If I had a kid I would name him "Beat".
Alpinist, yes its terrible reading reports from other climbers.
Aloha from Hawaii, the home of truly fractured rock.
bill
|
|
|
|
|
snaffel
Jan 2, 2005, 11:08 PM
Post #19 of 24
(3855 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2004
Posts: 13
|
well i say to all the critics of rap bolting is. You must never have hiked , bushwacked and dared small chossy ledges with a 150 pound drill pack to get to the top of a crag. Only to slamm money into the wall so that everyone might have a new route to do. If you havn"t done it you should give it a try and then tell me how easy it is.
|
|
|
|
|
johnson6102002
Jan 2, 2005, 11:16 PM
Post #20 of 24
(3855 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 23, 2004
Posts: 843
|
In reply to: well i say to all the critics of rap bolting is. You must never have hiked , bushwacked and dared small chossy ledges with a 150 pound drill pack to get to the top of a crag. Only to slamm money into the wall so that everyone might have a new route to do. If you havn"t done it you should give it a try and then tell me how easy it is.
senseing some hostility here
|
|
|
|
|
sonso45
Jan 2, 2005, 11:23 PM
Post #21 of 24
(3855 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 1, 2002
Posts: 997
|
I love trad. I have rap bolted lines as well. Safety is always paramount. New routes I develop determine my style. I would love to do my routes ground up, hooking if I had to. The quality of rock certainly allows you more choices in style and ethics. The end product has become paramount lately. I used to do scary routes but I am older and weaker, so I rap bolt more often. I still do some ground up stuff. I must be losing my memory cause I forget how scary it can be. Then I go back to rap bolting. Til I forget again.
|
|
|
|
|
fracture
Jan 3, 2005, 1:38 AM
Post #22 of 24
(3855 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 13, 2003
Posts: 1814
|
In reply to: There's a great answer to this in Alpinist #9 the current issue. The story is of "Beat Kammerlander" from Austria, sets hard routes and would never "bolt on rappel". "Always ground up, Always Free." The dood is in his forties and FA's 14's while bolting on lead from hooks.
How is bolting from hooks free?
|
|
|
|
|
fracture
Jan 3, 2005, 1:39 AM
Post #23 of 24
(3855 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 13, 2003
Posts: 1814
|
In reply to: Does Fox Climbing News (Alpinist) ....
:lol: :lol:
Classic.
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Jan 3, 2005, 4:18 AM
Post #24 of 24
(3855 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
In reply to: If I applied Curt's climbing ethics to my sex life I'd have 10 kids by now.
If you applied Curt's climbing ethics to your sex life, then whenever you got off you'd have to start at the bottom again.
-Jay
|
|
|
|
|
|
