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wingnut
Jan 5, 2005, 10:52 PM
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does anyone know the name of the hardest boulder problem in the world? ______________ I refuse to accept your reality and substitute my own.
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edge
Jan 5, 2005, 10:58 PM
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The hardest ones have not been done yet, and so they remain unnamed. Do you mean the hardest established problem? It would be impossible to say, as they are all dependant on each person's individual strength, physical characteristics, phases of the moon, temperature, etc. For me, the hardest problems in the World are anything over V6, but maybe thats just me...
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wingnut
Jan 5, 2005, 11:04 PM
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In reply to: The hardest ones have not been done yet, and so they remain unnamed. Do you mean the hardest established problem? It would be impossible to say, as they are all dependant on each person's individual strength, physical characteristics, phases of the moon, temperature, etc. For me, the hardest problems in the World are anything over V6, but maybe thats just me... Yes, an already established problem. ______________ I refuse to accept your reality and substitute my own.
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bubbahotep
Jan 5, 2005, 11:14 PM
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Wheel of Life at V16 is the hardest that I have heard of in terms of ratings. It's a very long endurance problem, just in case you are thinking of getting in shape for it......
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verticalcrag
Jan 5, 2005, 11:21 PM
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yea Wheel of life is the hardest send that i know of.......................
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fracture
Jan 6, 2005, 12:07 AM
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There is a list at 8a.
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stupidboulderer
Jan 6, 2005, 7:29 AM
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yes, it is called a 0 degree sheet of glass.
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curt
Jan 6, 2005, 8:13 AM
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In reply to: Wheel of Life at V16 is the hardest that I have heard of in terms of ratings. It's a very long endurance problem, just in case you are thinking of getting in shape for it...... That's not a boulder problem, or at least shouldn't be rated as such. Curt
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drubt
Jan 6, 2005, 8:30 AM
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thank you curt I was hoping someone would mention that. it seems that is more of a route with it's akujillion (bless me) moves but i'm sure there is an entirely different thread about this...
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fracture
Jan 6, 2005, 3:34 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Wheel of Life at V16 is the hardest that I have heard of in terms of ratings. It's a very long endurance problem, just in case you are thinking of getting in shape for it...... That's not a boulder problem, or at least shouldn't be rated as such. Bah not this again. 8^) Of course it's a boulder problem. Endurance can often be part of the difficulty in a boulder problem; though it is usually power-endurance for a few hard moves, there are plenty of problems where it is power-endurance for many much easier moves. There is no fundamental difference between the Hueco scale and the YDS. They are both subjective whole-picture difficulty-only rating systems. That is: they rate holistically (not by the hardest move), and don't take protection or fall consequences into account in the rating (highball V4 is still V4, 5.12 X is still 5.12). The only difference is the specific numbers used. The systems are essentially interchangable. There are one move wonder (or one boulder problem wonder) routes out there all over the place with YDS grades, and plenty of long, many-move endurance boulder problems with V-grades. There are examples of the latter at Hueco itself (including the 135-foot long V8 traverse at the gymnasium). The definition of the V-scale in Sherman's guidebook explicitly mentions endurance. Whatever number you want to give it (give it a "B3" if it gives you a warm and fuzzy oldschool feeling), Wheel of Life is one of the hardest climbs in the world.
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iclimbtoo
Jan 6, 2005, 4:01 PM
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I'm with edge...
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cchildre
Jan 6, 2005, 4:10 PM
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Boulder problem or not it is hard climbing! As for difficulty, does it really matter, besides it is all relative. A nasty boulder problem that requires a dyno from a 5'5" climber might seem rather tame to a 6'4" climber that can simply throw in lieu of the dyno. Just something to consider. Wheel of life sounds hard but honestly it would never even be a consideration for me, few can climb that hard and I am just not that dedicated, at least not yet anyway. I like my climbing like my women - thin, hard, and overhung (leaving off my explicit ending for this one)!
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alwaysforward
Jan 6, 2005, 4:55 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Wheel of Life at V16 is the hardest that I have heard of in terms of ratings. It's a very long endurance problem, just in case you are thinking of getting in shape for it...... That's not a boulder problem, or at least shouldn't be rated as such. Bah not this again. 8^) Of course it's a boulder problem. Endurance can often be part of the difficulty in a boulder problem; though it is usually power-endurance for a few hard moves, there are plenty of problems where it is power-endurance for many much easier moves. There is no fundamental difference between the Hueco scale and the YDS. They are both subjective whole-picture difficulty-only rating systems. That is: they rate holistically ( not by the hardest move), and don't take protection or fall consequences into account in the rating (highball V4 is still V4, 5.12 X is still 5.12). The only difference is the specific numbers used. The systems are essentially interchangable. There are one move wonder (or one boulder problem wonder) routes out there all over the place with YDS grades, and plenty of long, many-move endurance boulder problems with V-grades. There are examples of the latter at Hueco itself (including the 135-foot long V8 traverse at the gymnasium). The definition of the V-scale in Sherman's guidebook explicitly mentions endurance. Whatever number you want to give it (give it a "B3" if it gives you a warm and fuzzy oldschool feeling), Wheel of Life is one of the hardest climbs in the world. Nice.
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bubbahotep
Jan 6, 2005, 5:44 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Wheel of Life at V16 is the hardest that I have heard of in terms of ratings. It's a very long endurance problem, just in case you are thinking of getting in shape for it...... That's not a boulder problem, or at least shouldn't be rated as such. Curt Saying that Wheel of life is not a boulder problem (due to it's length) makes just as much sense as saying that the Nose is not a rock climb because it's kinda long also. Like none, IMO
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miuralover
Jan 6, 2005, 5:56 PM
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In reply to: As for difficulty, does it really matter, besides it is all relative. Sorry but it does matter, that's the question that started this post. It might not matter to you but obviously someone is curious. In addition to Wheel of Life there is Torino '78 at 8C+ (V16), somewhere in Italy. Put up by Mauro Calibani and I believe it was repeated sometime this fall but I'm not sure.
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cchildre
Jan 6, 2005, 9:21 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: As for difficulty, does it really matter, besides it is all relative. Sorry but it does matter, that's the question that started this post. It might not matter to you but obviously someone is curious. Please read carefully, I never said that it did not matter, in fact I simply questioned it's relevance. My point was that difficulty ratings are all relative. Disputes?
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curt
Jan 7, 2005, 5:07 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Wheel of Life at V16 is the hardest that I have heard of in terms of ratings. It's a very long endurance problem, just in case you are thinking of getting in shape for it...... That's not a boulder problem, or at least shouldn't be rated as such. Bah not this again. 8^) Of course it's a boulder problem. Endurance can often be part of the difficulty in a boulder problem; though it is usually power-endurance for a few hard moves, there are plenty of problems where it is power-endurance for many much easier moves. There is no fundamental difference between the Hueco scale and the YDS. They are both subjective whole-picture difficulty-only rating systems. That is: they rate holistically ( not by the hardest move), and don't take protection or fall consequences into account in the rating (highball V4 is still V4, 5.12 X is still 5.12). The only difference is the specific numbers used. The systems are essentially interchangable. There are one move wonder (or one boulder problem wonder) routes out there all over the place with YDS grades, and plenty of long, many-move endurance boulder problems with V-grades. There are examples of the latter at Hueco itself (including the 135-foot long V8 traverse at the gymnasium). The definition of the V-scale in Sherman's guidebook explicitly mentions endurance. Whatever number you want to give it (give it a "B3" if it gives you a warm and fuzzy oldschool feeling), Wheel of Life is one of the hardest climbs in the world. Really? Then perhaps you can explain to me exactly why (if rating boulder problems and routes are exactly the same thing) that so many rating systems for bouldering have been created, apart from those systems to rate routes? To answer my own question, they were created specifically because YDS ratings for boulder problems are nonsensical, and vice versa. They are not in any way interchangeable or equivalent, except under very well defined conditions. These conditions exist where a route is a "one move wonder" or where a boulder problem is 135 feet long. In those cases, the route may be better rated with a "V" number, and the boulder problem may be better rated with a "YDS" number. By the way, if you know John Sherman very well, and have discussed these things with him--you are well aware that he regrets using the "V" scale to rate that particular problem in the gymnasium at Hueco, as well as other long endurance based problems there. Curt
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bobd1953
Jan 7, 2005, 5:39 AM
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In reply to: Whatever number you want to give it (give it a "B3" if it gives you a warm and fuzzy oldschool feeling), Wheel of Life is one of the hardest climbs in the world. Seems like you solve the issue. You call it a climb and maybe it should be rated as one 5.15a/b??? I'll stick with the B-rating system. Works fine for years.
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bubbahotep
Jan 7, 2005, 6:34 AM
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I'm going to step out on a limb here and venture a guess that no one writing on this thread has been to OZ and seen or tried the problem. That said, who are you to decide whether or not it is a boulder problem or a route? The guy who did the FA rated it as a boulder problem - at least he has a clue whether it is or isn't. So, for those who think it is a route - just how many moves can a boulder problem have before it becomes a route? I'll throw in an example that I am very familiar with. Just West of Denver at the Morrison area, there is a V8 or 9 problem called "Otis". Otis is somewhere around 80 feet long and requires around 60 moves. It links several different problems ranging from V0-V6 with two hands off rests on knee bars. Never in the 80 feet is your butt more than 6 feet off the ground and for half of it, more like 1-2 feet. And, you could actually place pro on it. (as if it mattered) Is it a boulder problem or a route? Maybe I should try for the redpoint?
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curt
Jan 7, 2005, 6:37 AM
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In reply to: I'm going to step out on a limb here and venture a guess that no one writing on this thread has been to OZ and seen or tried the problem. That said, who are you to decide whether or not it is a boulder problem or a route? The guy who did the FA rated it as a boulder problem - at least he has a clue whether it is or isn't. So, for those who think it is a route - just how many moves can a boulder problem have before it becomes a route? I'll throw in an example that I am very familiar with. Just West of Denver at the Morrison area, there is a V8 or 9 problem called "Otis". Otis is somewhere around 80 feet long and requires around 60 moves. It links several different problems ranging from V0-V6 with two hands off rests on knee bars. Never in the 80 feet is your butt more than 6 feet off the ground and for half of it, more like 1-2 feet. And, you could actually place pro on it. (as if it mattered) Is it a boulder problem or a route? Maybe I should try for the redpoint? Then it is not a boulder problem either, in the traditional sense. As such, it would be better rated by a YDS designation. Curt
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cgranite
Jan 7, 2005, 6:49 AM
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Curt is correct IMO. Malcom Smith is on the same page as well. He rated that route in England 5.14d instead of giving it a bouldering grade. You climb enough boulders and then enough routes and you learn the difference. You don't call it a boulder problem just because your not roping up. If that's how you judge a problem from a route then every single pitch solo is just a highball. So take a route that everyone ropes up for and turn it horizontal to the ground like a cave, then climb it without a rope because it's now safe to do so,...And call it a boulder problem??? That's the whole point, it's not a boulder problem. It's a route that is safe to protect with pads. Problems don't get rated for their endurance, because it's not needed. IMO~
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bubbahotep
Jan 7, 2005, 7:14 AM
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To each thier own, I guess. It's a kind of "tastes great", "less filling" sort of argument anyway. But, you almost have me convinced. Almost. It does sound a lot cooler to say that I free soloed a 13b/c route than it does to say that I did a V8/9 problem. OK, maybe I'll change my mind..... I'll let you know.
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melekzek
Jan 7, 2005, 8:32 AM
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In reply to: John Sherman.. ... regrets using the "V" scale to rate that particular problem in the gymnasium at Hueco, as well as other long endurance based problems there. I thought he regrets inventing the V scale :wink:
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curt
Jan 7, 2005, 8:56 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: John Sherman.. ... regrets using the "V" scale to rate that particular problem in the gymnasium at Hueco, as well as other long endurance based problems there. I thought he regrets inventing the V scale :wink: That is true too. However, for a different reason. Curt
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grimpiperx
Jan 7, 2005, 1:40 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Wheel of Life at V16 is the hardest that I have heard of in terms of ratings. It's a very long endurance problem, just in case you are thinking of getting in shape for it...... That's not a boulder problem, or at least shouldn't be rated as such. Curt Koyamada himself agrees. He said a rating of 5.15a would be more appropriate.
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