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redpointitorfall
Feb 6, 2005, 2:37 AM
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Two weeks ago I left 6 quickdraws on sweetest taboo. returned today, and they are not there. anyone have any knowledge of this? no questions asked.
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siouxpfiin
Feb 6, 2005, 3:02 AM
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Cause someone took them. Thats why you dont leave stuff around...
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chrisparedes
Feb 6, 2005, 3:55 AM
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You can't honestly expect anyone to not steal gear, especially when you just leave it behind like that. I think you're out of luck.
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noell
Feb 7, 2005, 5:55 PM
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I completely disagree with the other responses to your plight. I am sorry you lost your draws. I've been to many sport cliffs where people will leave draws up on projects, and as fellow climbers in what I consider a respectful community, if the draws are up on someone's project, and the project is truly a project (ie an overhanging and hard to hang draws on, very difficult in nature, ie not the route everyone warms up on, etc. use judgement here people!) then everyone just respects that they are there, and the owner respects that others may indeed climb on their gear. I mean, if someone's draws are up on my project and no one is around to claim them, I'd be clipping their draws and falling on their draws, not mine! But I've never seen anyone just take a whole set of draws of someone's project before! So sorry to to hear that happened, that's so unfortunate.
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caughtinside
Feb 7, 2005, 6:03 PM
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In reply to: You can't honestly expect anyone to not steal gear,
I expect honest people not to steal gear. Of course, there will always be scumbags out there.
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tchamber
Feb 7, 2005, 6:04 PM
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It happens a lot. Check the other 500 posts on the same thing. I can't say I agree with the people who jack them, but at the same time, I wouldn't have left the draws because somebody's bound to take them.
Don't be suprised.
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nrvna963
Feb 7, 2005, 6:05 PM
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I agree with noell, but dont worry because whoever took your draws will eventually get whats coming to them. I have been very thankful on many routes that someone has left their draws, bc getting them down is such a pain. I would never ever even consider taking them and no one else should either. I dont know what the route was like that you left them on, but like stated above, never leave draws on anything but steep sick routes.
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csgambill
Feb 7, 2005, 6:33 PM
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Seriously bro, use a little common sense. You really shouldn't just leave stuff lying around and expect it to not get stolen (execpt if you're in Minnesota). I feel bad for you, but duh...
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neutralcypruss
Feb 7, 2005, 6:48 PM
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Absolutley pathetic someone would take draws off a climb like that i mean how else do you project a climb or get an fa when you have to put draws on take em off and so on i would think climbers in this day in age would have more respect pathetic...
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brolloks
Feb 7, 2005, 6:49 PM
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I agree that it was incorrect to take the quickdraws, but be reasonable - 2 WEEKS is a LOOOONG time to leave draws hanging and expect no one to take them. Maybe after the first week the person/s thought you're not returning, and took the quickdraws. Not necessarily correct, but understandable.....
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soulsurfer
Feb 7, 2005, 7:07 PM
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This is why I rarely sport climb. At J-tree if there is gear on a route I am doing, and I can get it, I take it. Why leave the rock littered with your draws, gear, etc.
But I do understand and appreciate draws fixed on severly overhanging climbs and would never take them . If you don't want them taken or they are supposed to be fixed, maybe quicklink them on to the bolts.
Sorry for the loss though. :?
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md3
Feb 7, 2005, 7:17 PM
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The factor that no one has mentioned yet is that quick draws can be ugly and in many places (outside of gyms) it inappropriate to leave them hanging for prolonged periods. Why bother with camouflaged hangers and anchors if there are always quick draws on a route? I appreciate the convenience of leaving draws on projects, but personally, I don’t like the way they look and it diminishes my enjoyment of an area to have to see them all over the place. Its better to deal with cleaning them and resetting them on the day you work the route. Maintaining access means learning to minimize impact, which means don’t leave this crap all over the cliffs.
I have never taken anybody’s gear, and while I have contemplated cleaning draws and leaving them at the bottom of a route I haven’t done that either fearing they would probably be more likely to be stolen. Perhaps it would be appropriate to clean a route and leave a message as to where the owner could call to retrieve the gear, but to be honest I wouldn’t want to deal with the hassle or frustrate someone if they go out to climb and can’t because their gear is gone, so maybe I will just leave some notes….
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bustloose
Feb 7, 2005, 7:18 PM
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anyone who has posted a response saying that you should have been smarter, or not left them so long, or whatever, give your fucking head a shake. seriously, welcome to climbing. it's fucking noobs like you who have no understanding of the ethics of the sport. if you're working a route, by all means, leave your draws on it. others can climb on them, that's part of the deal, but never, ever ever ever EVER take them down. that is classified as THEFT, plain and simple. we've beaten this topic to death on this site, yet there are still ignorant fucks out there who think that draws left on a route are booty. sad. if i ever catch someone removing draws from a route, they are going to get a very nasty introduction into the world of respect.
this debate should end here, it's not even a debate. NEVER take draws that are hanging on a route. one biner on the crux bolt, sure, that's booty. a full set of draws, keep your fucking kiddy hands off. 2 weeks is fAR from a long time to leave draws up, i've seen routes equipped for an entire season. who's going to complain? if you want to climb that route, then go ahead, you get the bonus of not having to sling or clean the draws.
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bustloose
Feb 7, 2005, 7:23 PM
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In reply to: , I don’t like the way they look and it diminishes my enjoyment of an area to have to see them all over the place.
tell me you're joking?? that's just plain sad. what if the crag is full and there are people climbing on the routes...? does it diminish your enjoyment to have to see all those draws up? it's SPORT CLIMBING, it's the nature of the beast for christ sakes. if you want serenity and pristine surroundings, don't go climbing at a sport crag.
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redpointitorfall
Feb 7, 2005, 7:43 PM
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just wanted to add two things. This is a steep climb that is hard to pull draws off of. Second I had the intentions of returnin the following day, but mother nature decided that it would be a good idea to start raining and snowing. It is not a good idea to drive 3 hours to sport climb when you have no idea of what the conditions are.
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jammer
Feb 7, 2005, 7:48 PM
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The climb, if i remember correctly from the routes database, is a 5.13a/b. I know for a fact that at Rumney, there are climbs with draws on them all the time. Nobody takes them and they shouldn't. It seems to be an exceptable thing to do on harder routes.
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crimpandgo
Feb 7, 2005, 7:48 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: , I don’t like the way they look and it diminishes my enjoyment of an area to have to see them all over the place. tell me you're joking?? that's just plain sad. what if the crag is full and there are people climbing on the routes...? does it diminish your enjoyment to have to see all those draws up? it's SPORT CLIMBING, it's the nature of the beast for christ sakes. if you want serenity and pristine surroundings, don't go climbing at a sport crag.
and on that note. If I see a climber hanging on a route for two weeks, I will take them down too. Boy, what an eye sore. And how do you hang that long for goodness sake. :)
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climbsomething
Feb 7, 2005, 7:52 PM
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Oh for the love of DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR :roll:
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caughtinside
Feb 7, 2005, 8:00 PM
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In reply to: Oh for the love of DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR :roll:
Amen.
I mean, DURRRRRRRRR!!!!!11
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jt512
Feb 8, 2005, 3:11 AM
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In reply to: I agree that it was incorrect to take the quickdraws, but be reasonable - 2 WEEKS is a LOOOONG time to leave draws hanging and expect no one to take them.
No, actually it's not. There are crags at which draws are left up year round.
Get a clue.
-Jay
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dbrayack
Feb 8, 2005, 4:27 AM
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Once again, It must have been a real jerk to take your draws, but I can understand the reasoning behind it, Its public land, and the draws simply should not be left on the route. Hanging the draws is not a major issue on that route either...My practice for hanging draws on a project is to do it the day of, them remove them. Sweetish Taboo is easy to access, just rap into crimes of flashing, move across the ledge and then drop down, and its not that steep either. I could see, leaving draws on something at the cirque, but there really are not any routes with fixed draws at endless wall "once again, not counting the cirque', its just not the standard for the area. I bet you that some local removed them, because of impact/disrespect for the area. I am not saying that they are right, but rather I can understand their thinking.
Man dude, that really sucks, I hope that you get them back.
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thirdamigo
Feb 8, 2005, 4:53 AM
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Everything that can be removed on a trad climb is booty...hmmmm...must have been a tradster on his rest day out for an easy day of clipping bolts...those jerks.
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mesomorf
Feb 8, 2005, 5:44 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: 2 WEEKS is a LOOOONG time to leave draws hanging and expect no one to take them. No, actually it's not. There are crags at which draws are left up year round.
Think land managers. Think impact. Think eyesore. Think closed crag. Think Cave Rock, Nevada.
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dbrayack
Feb 8, 2005, 12:33 PM
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Two weeks is a long time to leave draws hanging at endless wall...
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overlord
Feb 8, 2005, 12:37 PM
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i feel your loss. project draws are not booty, but some ppl just dont understand this. i have personally never removed any prehanged draws, but this happens.
the best way to avoid this is (apart from not leaving the draws) removing the first two or three draws. that way ppl who cant climb the grade wont be able to pull themselves up on your draws. and jsut hope that the better climber who comes by has better ethics.
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