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need info on daisy chains + wall harnesses
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rizzuh


Nov 12, 2003, 5:07 PM
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need info on daisy chains + wall harnesses
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Okay, I got the jumars and aiders and now need the two daisy chains. I'm 5'10... any recs for length and brand type... BD?

... as for the harness... looking for the biggest bang for your buck.

thanks,
nic


maculated


Nov 12, 2003, 5:24 PM
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Re: need info on daisy chains [In reply to]
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Try out all the daisies you can. Try adjustable daisies, try traditional ones . . . you'll figure out what you like.


flamer


Nov 12, 2003, 6:08 PM
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As far as Length goes(for your daisy's) Get something that is roughly 6-8" longer than your out strecthed arm(with the daisy coming from your harness). you'll want to be able to reach the stuff that is just out of your reach...if that makes sense!\
Harness's? This is very subjective, but I really like my Yates sheild. In fact most of yates stuff is the bomb digity!!
josh


pete_the_eskimo


Nov 12, 2003, 6:44 PM
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Re: need info on daisy chains + wall harnesses [In reply to]
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Daisy, Daisy, Tell me your answer true...... Metolius Adjustable. end of story.

Harness: Big quesstion: Swami or not? Try em on, I personally do not like swami styled. I ment with misty mountian's titan. I <3 it. Also, make sure the elastic on the back of your legs connecting to the leg loops can unclip. You gotta poop sometime.


passthepitonspete


Nov 12, 2003, 7:54 PM
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Re: need info on daisy chains + wall harnesses [In reply to]
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I have written [a] in the past about how b*tchin' the Metolius adjustable daisies are, because they don't slip over time like some of the buckle-style ones can.

However since writing this, I have been told by at least one person that Metolius daisy chains can break during a daisy chain fall. It's not hard to do a factor 2 on your daisy. Even Metolius recommends not using them as your primary anchors [even though I continue to do this]. Another problem with the Metolius adjustable daisies is that they are impossible to release under load, and require a considerable amount of skill to operate on traverses.

After the Hubers' slide show last month, I had an opportunity to speak with John Yates, who showed me his newly upgraded Yates adjustable daisies.


Dr. Piton and John Yates of Yates Gear discuss the
product improvements to his adjustable daisies



Have a look at Yates' new buckle:

http://www.yatesgear.com/...triers/Cambuckle.jpg


The new Yates buckle is much beefier - it's a motorcycle tie-down buckle manufactured by Ancra.

It features:

    [*:ebdd21fd35]a heavier spring

    [*:ebdd21fd35]a recessed release tab which won't allow the buckle to open if you accidentally press it against the wall

    [*:ebdd21fd35]the ability to optionally shorten it by putting a cord through the two holes you see on top


"The buckle should last for eighty to a hundred pitches, Pete, before it starts to slip," John told me.

"Yeah, but then you have to buy a new one, right?"

"But dude - it's only seventeen bucks!"

The man has a point. I'm gonna get me a pair, and give 'em a shot. You can click here to read about Yates adjustable daisies.

And mate - traditional [non-adjustable] daisies have gone the way of the dinosaur. They are completely obsolete - don't even waste your money.

If you want to know more about this kind of stuff, please click here to read about Stuff You Need and How to Rig It.

And as for wall harnesses? Look no further than the Yates Big Wall Harness! This thing just keeps on gettin' b*tchin'er and b*tchin'er. I'm on my second Yates Big Wall Harness, and if Johnny cuts me a decent deal, I'd like to upgrade to the newest one, which has even better gear loops and a super-cushy waist. [HINT]

As you can see from the link, they come in new half-sizes, and for instance if you are a narrow-waisted bike-riding hottie with bigger thighs, you might want to mix and match the leg loops and the waist belt. I would like to see John provide two donuts - I use two on my harness [the one donut is stolen from my old Yates Big Wall Harness] to reduce crowding and clusterf*ckage.


moabbeth


Nov 12, 2003, 8:18 PM
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Re: need info on daisy chains + wall harnesses [In reply to]
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Yates adjustable daisies rule. I was a mess til I started using those things, they make a HUGE difference.


bigwalling


Nov 12, 2003, 8:27 PM
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Re: need info on daisy chains + wall harnesses [In reply to]
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I took a fall onto a fully extended metolius daisy chain a while back and I was fine. At the time I was also pretty heavy.


valygrl


Nov 12, 2003, 8:45 PM
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Re: need info on daisy chains + wall harnesses [In reply to]
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I just got a new Yates adjustable to replace an old one with a slipping buckle, and I don't like that the buckle is now located where you clip the piece, not where you girth hitch your harness. It's all good until you want to release tension on the buckle, but sometimes the buckle is out of reach! Anyone else notice this, or am I doing something wrong.

Anna


wedgy


Nov 12, 2003, 9:54 PM
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What kind of quality control does a motorcycle tie down maker have? CEN, UIAA, Sigma 3 testing? No. Not to bag on it but it's pot metal(cast). You're gone if the buckle pops. The daisy isn't runner strength as a whole either. I switched to Mountain Tools adjustable daisy after bad experiences with Yates and Metolius. The MT daisy uses 2 titanium rings(like rap rings) that don't eat up the webbing like the buckle or the "cams". The webbing is a continuous piece so even if the Ti rings blow(highly unlikely-they're made for climbing-good QC) you're still connected with a full runner strength piece of 1" tubular webbing. I wouldn't use the others as my only tie in point. No hesitations with the MT units. Their speed aiders are the same way. Definitely worth taking a look at. Hope it helps. Peace. Out.


valygrl


Nov 12, 2003, 9:59 PM
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mountain tools adjustable??? never knew about that... got a link?


copperhead


Nov 12, 2003, 10:17 PM
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In reply to:
The new Yates buckle is much beefier - it's a motorcycle tie-down buckle manufactured by Ancra.


I've used tie-downs on my bike for years and am waiting for the day when my bike flies out of the back of my pick-up and gets run over by a semi. I can always buy another bike...


wedgy


Nov 12, 2003, 10:38 PM
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www.mountaintools.com look at "big wall"-aiders
They will custom make about any size or style you want.

To Passthepitons; 1) new lurker
2) no, can't work hardly any of it


Partner euroford


Nov 13, 2003, 6:59 AM
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Re: need info on daisy chains + wall harnesses [In reply to]
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the yates adjustalbles rock... and so what if its a cycle buckle?? they work great, and its NOT a piece of safety gear and nobody is saying it is. sure, they might turn a leader fall into just a daisy fall, but if they did blow, well, its gunna suck, but thats what the rope is for!!

yup, as i've said before, the yates big wall harness rocks. not only do i aid with it, but i also do high-rise facade ropes access stuff with it. i've literaly spent entire work days hanging in it with no complaints. its my high rise lounge chair. gear racking, haul loops, comfort, fit, finish, bla bla bla, all get A+'s in my book.

pete, your so right about the double donuts. i gotta see if yates will hook me up on another when i call later and order some of the gecko locking biners. btw: i'm thrilled about those things, keynose, twist lockers with HUGE strength ratings. i think i'm gunna order two dozen of those in various colors to replace all my other aid/roped access lockers.


maculated


Nov 13, 2003, 9:07 AM
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Re: need info on daisy chains + wall harnesses [In reply to]
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I second the hate on the Metolius adjustable daisy. If they are weighted, it's a bugger of a time getting them to move. Yates looks like they improve on that issue.


epic_ed


Nov 13, 2003, 10:29 AM
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Re: need info on daisy chains + wall harnesses [In reply to]
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In reply to:
www.mountaintools.com look at "big wall"-aiders
They will custom make about any size or style you want.

To Passthepitons; 1) new lurker
2) no, can't work hardly any of it


Wedgy -- the only adjustable daisey they have on their site seems to be the Yates adjustable. Am I missing a product?

Ed


spike


Nov 13, 2003, 10:36 AM
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Get YATES adjustable daisys and YATES Shield harness.


ricardol


Nov 13, 2003, 10:47 AM
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i like the yates big wall harness.. its plush! -- and has tons of places where you can rack gear ..

.. as far as daisies .. i like my metolious daisies .. but i dont really use them for gaining height -- i use the adj. fifi for that .. so mostly my daisies never change length unless i can't get the fifi off the previous piece ..

.. it doesn't matter to me if the daisy breaks on a fall since the rope should stop you ..

pete.. i also use the daisies to anchor at the belay (though most of the time also backed up with the climbing rope) ..

-- ricardo


epic_ed


Nov 13, 2003, 10:56 AM
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Re: need info on daisy chains + wall harnesses [In reply to]
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As for harnesses, I can't praise Yastes enough. I have both a Big Wall and a Shield. Both are awesome, but I favor the Shield for it's closure system. Easier to buckle than the swami tie-in of the Big Wall harness.

Ed


Partner euroford


Nov 13, 2003, 1:37 PM
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Re: need info on daisy chains + wall harnesses [In reply to]
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In reply to:
As for harnesses, I can't praise Yastes enough. I have both a Big Wall and a Shield. Both are awesome, but I favor the Shield for it's closure system. Easier to buckle than the swami tie-in of the Big Wall harness.

Ed

can you give any other comparisons regurading the two harnesses?? i love my big wall, but initially wanted a shield as i liked the closure system. ultimatly, i went with the big wall becouse i needed a harness NOW and a local store had my size.

i'm thinking that as i teach my padwan learner the jedi of roped access i could pass down my big wall and score a sheild instead, or maybe not.


maculated


Nov 13, 2003, 1:44 PM
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No FISH recommendations?


dsafanda


Nov 13, 2003, 2:05 PM
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Re: need info on daisy chains + wall harnesses [In reply to]
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In reply to:
I just got a new Yates adjustable to replace an old one with a slipping buckle, and I don't like that the buckle is now located where you clip the piece, not where you girth hitch your harness. It's all good until you want to release tension on the buckle, but sometimes the buckle is out of reach! Anyone else notice this, or am I doing something wrong.

It's news to me that Yates once made a version that had a buckle anywhere other than at the clipping end of the chain. I've had Yates adjustable daisies for a few years now and I've never seen the model you're refering to. I don't doubt you. I just had no idea that they were once made with the buckle at the girth hitch end. I'm not sure I can picture it.

Anyway, I'm confused by the scenario you describe. How is the buckle out of reach if presumably you had to reach that high at one point to place the piece anyway? Am I missing something? I'm 6'2" so perhaps it's an issue I've just been lucky enough not to have.


krustyklimber


Nov 13, 2003, 2:32 PM
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I have a second "doughnut" on my Yates Bigwall harness... it is a great way to keep the clusterfupp to a minimum, and I always felt a little safer having a back-up.

I actually did some tests with motorcycle tiedowns before I got the Metolius adjustables, other than the fact the ones I had are complete overkill for climbing.
As for the buckles wearing out the webbing, I have some tie downs that have been through hundreds of cycles, being oulled tight enough to carry motorcycles, some weighing close to a thousand pounds...
They still don't slip, despite being quite fuzzy and tattered.

Money spent at Yates is always well spent, in my opinion! ;)

Jeff http://pages.prodigy.net/.../emoticons/wave1.gif


epic_ed


Nov 13, 2003, 2:43 PM
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In reply to:
can you give any other comparisons regurading the two harnesses??

The Shield has one more gear loop and only has the hammer holster on the right side. The waist belt on the Big Wall is slightly wider (1/4 in?) but both are made out of the same high density foam. I haven't noticed a difference in comfort between the two at hanging belays. I gotta say, although the closure system is more convenient on the Shield, it's still no piece of cake. Once you cynch it down tight, it's a beeotch to spread the clasps appart to loosen it. Much easier to put on, though. I've had the Big Wall for over a year and it still takes me 10 minutes to tie that damn thing up. Once it's tied -- niiiiiice.

Both have droppable leg loops and similar closure systems around the leg loops.

Overall, I'm probably going to pick my Shield harness to wear on multi-day climbing more often than my Big Wall.

A for Fish stuff -- very similar in style and design to the Yates daisies, but I'm not sure if Russ's buckles are the stronger ANCRA buckles that Yates uses. The benefit of the Fish adjustable is he'll sell you just the webbing replacement kit for under $10 when the original stuff wears out.

I've never seen his BW harness -- anyone have it?

Ed


bspisak


Nov 13, 2003, 3:13 PM
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I'm also curious about the difference between the two Yates' harnesses.

In reply to:
The waist belt on the Big Wall is slightly wider (1/4 in?) but both are made out of the same high density foam.

Do you have an older version of the harness? The one on his website shows some pretty cool hotspot foam padding that the Shield does not have.

In reply to:
I gotta say, although the closure system is more convenient on the Shield, it's still no piece of cake. I've had the Big Wall for over a year and it still takes me 10 minutes to tie that damn thing up.

Hmmmm.... from the pix, the Shield looks like it just uses standard type harness buckles. The Big Wall looks like it uses a similar buckle, but I don't quite get what else is going on there. What am I missing!

Finally, the Big Wall looks much bulkier. Do you find this to be the case? Is it a hassle when you shed or add layers?

I'm asking Santa for one of these for Christmas, just can't decide which and I don't have a local shop that carries them.
Brian


dsafanda


Nov 13, 2003, 3:33 PM
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From someone who owns and uses the Yates "BigWall".

Get the Yates "Shield"! I wish I did.


Ok. After using it more I now like the BigWall more than I did at first. It is very comfy and it does indeed have some padding that the Yates Shield does not have. However, the buckle system and tie in method still drives me crazy. Yes, I have the most recent version. Personally, I would prefer to give up a bit of extra padding for the convenience of the Shield model.

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