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prsmatt
Sep 16, 2004, 11:44 AM
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I have just started using cordelette for my belay stations and have found it quite freeing from my old method of using runners clove-hitched to the anchors for equalization. However, I was thinking this morning: Why not use a girth hitch around a pair of caribiners at the point where the three loops come together for the primary tie-in point. The load stays evenly distributed between the three anchors and the knot is much easier to tie cleanly (especially in less than ideal conditions) and easier to untie when finished. What I don't know is if the girth hitch is a safe knot to use at this place in the protection line.
Any insight out there?
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petsfed
Sep 16, 2004, 12:14 PM
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Truly, why? Under load, the girth hitch WILL slip, considerably, melting through the sling. Clove hitches slip (and thus melt) less so, but even so...
In any event, a figure 8 knot to bring together the power point is standard, and with that many strands in the knot itself is not that difficult to untie. Furthermore, I don't see how a girth hitch provides you a clip in point, unless you mean to clip other carabiners into your powerpoint anchor (or tie directly in). Either way the hopes of the entire team are resting on one carabiner.
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cracklover
Sep 16, 2004, 1:09 PM
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I'm not sure burning through the cord because of slippage would be likely, because of the small amount of cord that would move when the system re-equalized itself in the case of a fall. The trouble is, if one strand of the cords *is* even partially melted, your anchor becomes terribly compromised, because with no knot, once that "weakest link" breaks, the whole thing falls apart.
A cool idea, though, and worth further thought - thanks for sharing!
GO
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prsmatt
Sep 16, 2004, 1:13 PM
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Maybe I can explain it better.
Take a 20-foot loop of cordelette and set it up as if it were clipped to three pieces of gear.
Pull the three resulting loops together to equallize.
Instead of tying off with a figure-8 and clipping in a pair of biners, girth hitch the same pair of biners with the three strands of cordelette as if it were one strand.
Use the pair of biners as the main tie-in point for either belay or toprope.
I could not get the knot to slip with vigorous tugging and jerking, but I am not exerting the kind of forces involved in climbing falls either.
I am not planning on field testing this by any means, but I am just curious as to the integrity and strength of the knot tied around the biners.
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caughtinside
Sep 16, 2004, 1:16 PM
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If you girth hitch those biners with 3 legs of the cordelette, it will clutter the biner. Also, it will not be redundant, since it's just hitched. If one leg of the cordelette gets cut, the whole thing will fail under a load... bye bye!
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artm
Sep 16, 2004, 1:23 PM
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A girth hitch reduces the strength of a sling by around 30%.
In testing the Sling had a tendency to break at the knot.
I have been taught to avoid the girth hitch other than using it to attach a daisy or sling to my harness. I believe the overhand and/or the figure eight is a stronger knot.
I'm going off of what I've been taught and what I remember reading.......I'll see if I can find documentation to back up what I'm saying.
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prsmatt
Sep 16, 2004, 1:31 PM
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In reply to: I have been taught to avoid the girth hitch other than using it to attach a daisy or sling to my harness. I believe the overhand and/or the figure eight is a stronger knot.
This is sort of what I figured, but I am always looking for ways to make set-up of a belay station faster. But my reliance on safety first always takes precedence.
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gds
Sep 16, 2004, 2:11 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I have been taught to avoid the girth hitch other than using it to attach a daisy or sling to my harness. I believe the overhand and/or the figure eight is a stronger knot. This is sort of what I figured, but I am always looking for ways to make set-up of a belay station faster. But my reliance on safety first always takes precedence. |
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norushnomore
Sep 17, 2004, 2:01 AM
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Take a look at Trango Alpine Equalizer
http://www.rei.com/product/47665532.htm?vcat=REI_SSHP_CLIMBING_TOC
I think it does exactly what you are trying to accomplish here
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edge
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Sep 17, 2004, 6:16 AM
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In reply to: Take a look at Trango Alpine Equalizer http://www.rei.com/product/47665532.htm?vcat=REI_SSHP_CLIMBING_TOC I think it does exactly what you are trying to accomplish here
But that is not redundant unless you girth hitch the three anchor points, and if you are going to do that every time, it would be faster to just use a cordelette with a figure eight. It really shouldn't take more than 20 seconds to set up once the anchors are in.
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