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teamkonarider
Sep 27, 2004, 6:13 PM
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Where I normally go climbing (chatfield hollow) there is a huge distance to cover when setting up a top rope on a route called fore arm frenzy aka z crack. The from the anchor trees to the cliff you need about 100 ft of anchor material. I was wondering if I can use a dynamic rope in the place of a static rope to cover the gap. I no longer use the rope and it is a Beal 10.2 flyer. I think I can but would have just alot of rope stretch in the anchor. Want to know other peoples opinion as to if this seems kosher or not.
thanks
Sean
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orangekyak
Sep 27, 2004, 6:37 PM
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I've used dynamic ropes for TR anchors before. It's safe if done right. Without seeing the exact set-up, it's hard to say if it's the right solution to your situation. What do other folks who TR the climb do?
One thing I would avoid, for certain, is using a single length of retired rope over an edge that is at all sharp. I'm certainly no rope expert, but common sense is a life saver.
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slobmonster
Sep 27, 2004, 7:04 PM
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Your (retired) dynamic rope will still stretch more than a static rope. This will make it more prone to rubbing back-and-forth over the edges of which you are obviously concerned.
However, you might be able to get away with it. Since what you (and we) are worried about is abrasion, I would suggest protecting your rope's sheath from abrading the edge in question. You can slide some 1" webbing over the rope to where it will be lying over the edge; this will help a bit. Also, a few small pieces of remnant carpet, or your car's floor mats, or a jacket or empty pack, can be placed underneath the rope where it's sitting on the edge. Any and all of these suggestions should keep your rope alive.
Cheers.
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teamkonarider
Sep 28, 2004, 11:05 AM
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if I use the webbing to protect the rope can i also keep using it to build short tr anchors?
thanks again
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basecamp
Sep 28, 2004, 11:13 AM
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The only thing that I would be worried about is losing distance when you climb... cause if you fall both the dynamic rope used for anchoring and the rope your climbing on is going to stretch... there fore your going to fall farther down... plus with the stretch your going to have the potential of pulling that anchor rope over the edge where if its sharp has the potential of chewing through your rope. As stated above, since I can't see the setup I really couldn't tell you for certain... but it would work... just not the best idea.. if you can find some static rope go with that!!
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markc
Sep 28, 2004, 11:36 AM
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In reply to: The only thing that I would be worried about is losing distance when you climb... cause if you fall both the dynamic rope used for anchoring and the rope your climbing on is going to stretch... there fore your going to fall farther down... plus with the stretch your going to have the potential of pulling that anchor rope over the edge where if its sharp has the potential of chewing through your rope. As stated above, since I can't see the setup I really couldn't tell you for certain... but it would work... just not the best idea.. if you can find some static rope go with that!!
I've toproped a couple of routes that were roughly 90' tall. We usually used a static line due to the enormous stretch with a dynamic rope. IIRC a fall from as high as 15 feet brought you very close to the ground. If you run dynamic rope for 100', you're going to see significant elongation when you fall. As others have said, that will create quite a bit of wear unless you guard against it.
I'd consider buying a more static alternative, or just pooling your webbing and static line with partners. I know most of my regular partners have at least 50 or 60 feet of webbing or static line. Get a couple friends together and you're there. If you don't have enough, 1" tubular webbing is roughly 30¢ a foot. Buy a long section and convince your partner to do the same.
mark
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ricks308
Sep 28, 2004, 11:56 AM
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All anchors should follow SRENE. This anchor would violate R (Redundant) if only one strand of rope were running from the tree and NE (No Extension) even if there were no worry about wear over the edge.
I agree with the webbing choices mentioned earlier.
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tradnomad
Sep 28, 2004, 12:01 PM
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I've run into problems before using dynamic rope as toprope anchor material. On one setup there was only about 20 feet of rope used and after a day of top-roping the sheath had been worn through by rubbing against the rock and the core was showing!
If you are going to use it I would suggest pre-tensioning the anchor first. Pre-tensioning = taking all the stretch out of the anchor rope by pulling/winching the rope from the edge of the cliff and anchoring the end near the cliff to keep the tension there. But this would require some sort of anchor near the cliff edge (i.e. bolt, nut or horn to sling) which I gather is the problem.
In any case check your anchor after every few climbs to make sure that it is not abrading too badly.
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sonso45
Sep 28, 2004, 12:07 PM
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I have used a dynamic rope as an anchor over an edge. If you pad the edge you will reduce the chance of abrasion/cutting. If you use the rope as 2 long runners, tie the end of the loop it forms into a figure 8 on a bight and adjust it to hang just over the edge. That way your figure 8 has two independent rope ends from your anchor system to the knot. Good luck. M
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teamkonarider
Sep 29, 2004, 10:56 AM
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If i use the webbing to protect the rope from abrasion can i still use it independently to set up a webbing only anchor?
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crimpandgo
Sep 29, 2004, 11:04 AM
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In reply to: If i use the webbing to protect the rope from abrasion can i still use it independently to set up a webbing only anchor?
Dont understand what you are asking here. how are you using webbing to protect the rope. The posts above have suggested you set up a webbing only anchor which does protect the rope from abrasion because the webbing anchor hangs over the edge thus allowing the rope to run freely through the anchor.
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tarzan420
Sep 29, 2004, 11:09 AM
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In reply to: If i use the webbing to protect the rope from abrasion can i still use it independently to set up a webbing only anchor?
I know I sure wouldn't want to untie one of my runners and thread the rope through it, all 9/15 feet of it. I'd much rather go any buy 2 3 foot sections of webbing, and designate those as toprope padding. In the end, you'd be out less than $2.
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crimpandgo
Sep 29, 2004, 11:15 AM
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If the webbing itself isn't too abraded, i don't see why not. However, (If i'm not mistaken), the suggestion implies threading the rope through the webbing.
I know I sure wouldn't want to untie one of my runners and thread the rope through it, all 9/15 feet of it. I'd much rather go any buy 2 3 foot sections of webbing, and designate those as toprope padding.
Response:
Do not thread your rope through the webbing! friction will cause the rope to burn through the webbing during toproping. Run your rope through redundant biners that are attached to the webbing.
Edited
OOPs I think I see that you are talking about something else. sorry for the rant :oops:
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noshoesnoshirt
Sep 29, 2004, 11:24 AM
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100' to a tree? good god. just drop a couple of bolts on that sucker.
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saskclimber
Sep 29, 2004, 12:05 PM
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In reply to: If i use the webbing to protect the rope from abrasion can i still use it independently to set up a webbing only anchor? |
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knudenoggin
Sep 29, 2004, 12:37 PM
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In reply to: [F]rom the anchor trees to the cliff you need about 100 ft of anchor material. I was wondering if I can use a dynamic rope in the place of a static rope to cover the gap.
reduce the stretch through load-sharing. Otherwise, I concur with the recommendation
to pool your buddies's static resources into a long anchor. (And I think that the
sentiment is that among a few climbers, there SHOULD be enough ... !)
*knudeNoggin*
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markc
Sep 29, 2004, 1:05 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: If i use the webbing to protect the rope from abrasion can i still use it independently to set up a webbing only anchor? As in take it off later and use it for an anchor?! Well, you seemed to be showing some common sense with your initial question, but this completely ruined it :P... If you were using for the sole pupose to BECOME abraded instead of ruining the rope, why on earth would you use it after it's done it's purpose? After you've used toilet paper to whipe your a**, do you still use it to blow your nose? (webbing is also one of the cheapest climbing accessories out there...)
As with all gear, I would carefully inspect it before using it again. With the amount of elongation you're likely to experience with a 100' run of dynamic rope, I'd be surprised if the webbing wasn't trashed.
If you are still considering using dynamic rope, I'd suggest using multiple means of preventing rub. Thread the rope through 1' webbing, and use padding along the edge and any sharp features you encounter in your 100'. Towels, shirts, and carpet samples are all suitable. Even so, this is an anchor I'd want to keep a close eye on (if I climbed on it). Using additional padding may save your webbing from excessive abuse.
Personally, I'd suck it up and buy the proper static anchoring materials. YMMV. Is there any way you can build a gear anchor? I'm also curious about what most parties do...
mark
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verticallaw
Sep 29, 2004, 1:17 PM
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We had this exact problem trying to toprope an aid route route called slow ride. We ended up using a older (retired) dynamic rope (although I have used a static on that route and preferred it) but what we did at the edge was we took some old garden hose and cut 2 lengths 4 ft long and slid them over the anchoring rope so that they could be adjusted to sit on the edge, this dramatically reduced the wear on the rope while alloing it to strech and abosrb shock (the anchor tree's sucked). I much preffered this setup to a old carpet or vehicle mats as they stayed in place and we did not have to worry about the rope comming off and being abraded anyway. It took some doing to find a hose with enough inside diameter to go over the rope and allow it to move but it was well worth it. Any one elce try this??
P.s. we where able to redpoint the aid route which dialed in at 5.13 ish from an A3 (very overhung)
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markc
Sep 29, 2004, 1:57 PM
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In reply to: ...what we did at the edge was we took some old garden hose and cut 2 lengths 4 ft long and slid them over the anchoring rope so that they could be adjusted to sit on the edge...I much preffered this setup to a old carpet or vehicle mats as they stayed in place and we did not have to worry about the rope comming off and being abraded anyway. It took some doing to find a hose with enough inside diameter to go over the rope and allow it to move but it was well worth it. Any one elce try this??
A friend obtained sections of retired fire hose to protect tr materials from abrasion. The i.d. is not a factor...
mark
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