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tavs
Jan 12, 2005, 1:42 PM
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Are you planning on doing only general mountaineering, where you'll be ascending and glissading down snow slopes? Then you'll want the first option, the ice axe (longer than ice tools, straight rather than bent shaft, and you only carry one of them). Used for self-arresting (stopping yourself) if you fall on a steep snow slope and for glissading down(essentially and in brief--butt sledding with the ice axe as a rudder).
Or are you planning to do technical ice climbing (where the only way to move up is by swinging a pick into the ice and standing on the front points of your crampons)? Then you need the second option--ice tools (generally shorter, curved/bent shaft, and you need two).
If you're thinking of doing both, then it kinda depends. I do mostly technical ice climbing with some mountaineering, AND I am relatively short, so I just carry one of my ice tools for mountaineering purposes. But my boyfriend, who's rather tall, got an ice axe for mountaineering. (Basically, when you're traversing up or down a snow slope, you carry the tool in your uphill hand, at the ready in case you fall and to provide extra balance. If you're tall, you have to bend over uncomfortably to touch the snow with an ice tool, since it's shorter. Hence the desire for a longer ice axe.)
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csproul
Jan 12, 2005, 2:03 PM
Post #3 of 11
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And to expand with what tavs said, sometimes I carry one of each when doing easy-moderate alpine ice. I can then use the axe as you noramlly would and use one axe and and one tool when the climbing gets steeper.
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brianinslc
Jan 12, 2005, 2:03 PM
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In reply to: What is the difference between this...
Top one is mostly used for general mountaineering. Bottom are primarily for technical ice climbing.
Think...uhh...hiking up the easy route on Mount Baker versus climbing Bridelveil Falls.
Brian in SLC
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mtman
Jan 12, 2005, 2:22 PM
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you said that you were planning to get in to alpine, so what i would do is too take a general mountaineering course and get familiar with each tool and it's uses and techniques. or at least get a copy of freedom of the hills. it is a must have for any climber, it goes over basic mountaineering to rock climbing to expedition climbing, it has very good explanations and illustrations.
mtman
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rockclimber23
Jan 12, 2005, 2:39 PM
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Isn't it nice when we all get along?? I use a version of the bottom axe for my mountaineering. I'm about 6'0" so it can be a tad on the short side sometimes, I haven't had a problem with it yet though. I used it on Mt. Washington Sat. for a self-arrest b/c I'm a bumbling idiot but that's neither here nor there.
Cheers,
Tim
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mr_oo3
Jan 12, 2005, 2:56 PM
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A ice tool wont purchase as well as an ice axe when you are self arresting.
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brianinslc
Jan 12, 2005, 3:05 PM
Post #8 of 11
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In reply to: A ice tool wont purchase as well as an ice axe when you are self arresting.
How do you know what data do you have?
All what you're used to perhaps...and somewhat condition dependent...
I've done it with both and practise with both. Some folks might be surprised at the difference...(or lack thereof...).
-Brian in SLC
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slobmonster
Jan 12, 2005, 5:16 PM
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I, too, was taught that an ice tool would not stop me as well as a traditional mountaineering piolet when in self-arrest. I think this has to do with a very specific dread: that instead of the more classic, gently curved pick siding nice and easy into the snow, slowing you down, a reverse-curve pick will catch very quickly, bounce out, yank your shoulder out of its socket, and leave you to your rapidly accelerating doom.
Whether this is valid or not, I'd rather never find out.
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jimdavis
Jan 12, 2005, 9:05 PM
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In snow...I dont think it'd matter much for self-arresting. The pick will shread through it for a while anyway.
I'd be more worried about stressing the pick in a way it wasn't designed for more than anything else.
But I'm not mountaineer, just a gear head and and ice climber.
Jim
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akclimber
Jan 13, 2005, 12:57 AM
Post #11 of 11
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Registered: Mar 17, 2004
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In reply to: you said that you were planning to get in to alpine, so what i would do is too take a general mountaineering course and get familiar with each tool and it's uses and techniques. or at least get a copy of freedom of the hills. it is a must have for any climber, it goes over basic mountaineering to rock climbing to expedition climbing, it has very good explanations and illustrations. mtman
i second that, Mountaineering:Freedom of the Hills. excellent book, easy to find, easy to read, shows self arrest techniqes (how to stop when sliding down a slope) also since your not familiar with ice axes then i can assume you dont know much about crampons (book also covers it) it gives pretty good explanations, check it out....
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