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skibabeage
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Feb 20, 2005, 9:38 AM
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coopershawk
Feb 20, 2005, 9:49 AM
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Re: Developer seeks to build 2,200 homes at the New River Go
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god bless those land developers. just can't leave good enough alone, can they? exactly what west virginia needs, an infusion of yuppies looking to get away from it all by moving to a housing development. hopefully, they'll build a lowes and a home depot in the kaymoor section, and a wal-mart near endless wall.
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hello_heino
Feb 20, 2005, 9:57 AM
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Re: Developer seeks to build 2,200 homes at the New River Go
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It is about time. The area needs a good economic boost.
300 to 330 million people in the USA in the next 10 years. They will have to live somewhere. Don't be a NIMBY. This is good news. I love NRG and now I can get a nice house there.
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coopershawk
Feb 20, 2005, 10:18 AM
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Re: Developer seeks to build 2,200 homes at the New River Go
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Good news, huh? I'm content travelling to and from the gorge without having a house there. In fact, West Virginia should be one huge National Park instead of another suburb. Revitlize Cahrleston, Cleveland, Detroit, Pittsburgh, etc. without ruining yet another wilderness spot. I hope this proposal goes down in flames.
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hello_heino
Feb 20, 2005, 10:22 AM
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Re: Developer seeks to build 2,200 homes at the New River Go
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I humbly suggest that if you think it is a wilderness area you know nothing about wilderness in general, or the area in question to be developed.
It is a coal mining area. Learn some history of the area. I have familiy there. They are eager for the development. They have lived there 70 years.
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coopershawk
Feb 20, 2005, 10:38 AM
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Re: Developer seeks to build 2,200 homes at the New River Go
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No insults intended, amigo. I just hate to see what is happening in this area happen there too. We have many housing developments, big, sprawling homes with perfect lawns and two SUV's, etc, and no jobs. sure. low paying slave jobs, but nothing more, really. Who will be buying these "mountain estates?" not coal miners, that's for sure. Just my 2 cents, for whatever it's worth. Hope your family does well if this deal goes through. peace.
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dig_scott
Feb 20, 2005, 11:53 AM
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Re: Developer seeks to build 2,200 homes at the New River Go
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lets all think about our selves here. What would be better for ME!!?? build homes so I can live there and screw everyone else that comes to the NRG for the beauty and peacfulness, not to go hang out in someone's back yard.
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dredsovrn
Feb 20, 2005, 12:02 PM
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Re: Developer seeks to build 2,200 homes at the New River Go
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Sounds sweet. Will you be able to walk to climbing from where these houses will be? How much will they sell for? How do you get in contact with a sales agent?
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funoutside
Feb 21, 2005, 8:47 AM
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Re: Developer seeks to build 2,200 homes at the New River Go
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Come on, do you guys really think this way. Oh well i guess that is what happens when there are to many folks watching the Ford comercials about ripping up the wild places with an suv and saying yah that looks cool. Yuppies become climbers!! Think for a second about standing at dimond point and looking at 2500 homes accross the river. No! that is not a good thing. I have worked in the gorge as a guide for 5 years and there is no longer sign of the coal mines, unless your standing in one. That is how it should stay. The simple minded land rapists have left and nature took the land back. Now the next rapist is in line, what will we do sell out the amazing land once again?? :evil: I am not against development but not on the rim of the gorge. Why destroy what the masses come to see for the money of a few rich folks that will only be there once a year.
D
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j_ung
Feb 21, 2005, 9:35 AM
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Re: Developer seeks to build 2,200 homes at the New River Go
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I'm very torn about this. On the one hand, I'm not excited about looking out onto the gorge and seeing houses. To boot, the land has intrinsic value in it's present state that has nothing to do with what I see on it. But on the other hand, what hello_heino says is very true. Fayette County is one of the most depressed areas in the country. This project will add jobs and bring an influx of money.
The only industry they have there is tourism. Isn't it their right to try to expand that? Isn't it their right to try to make better lives for themselves? Most of us that climb in the gorge pop in once a week or so, give a little money to Cathedral and some gas station and then leave. It's easy for me to forget that there's a whole population of people there who don't take for granted what I sometimes do.
Hopefully, a compromise can be reached so that the houses aren't visible from the gorge.
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clmbr121
Feb 21, 2005, 9:49 AM
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Re: Developer seeks to build 2,200 homes at the New River Go
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It is possible to build homes there...just not on the ridge. Keep it beautiful, but find a compromise.
I don't think that they will ever get permission to build there, though. The Coalition is very good about keeping that area as nice as possible...and you know Access Fund will have something to say about this as well. (Are your dues paid?)
- Brian
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nrgroscoe
Feb 21, 2005, 11:45 AM
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Re: Developer seeks to build 2,200 homes at the New River Go
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Ok, now we have some action here on the site.
First off all developement is bad if it does not work with the landscape and needs of community. Second, this area needs an econmic boost away from rafting. They have ruled the roost for too long.
It is up to all the locals who live here to get involved and speak their peace to the county commissioners about the pros and cons.
I have met with the developers and with some of the locals who are working with them to do this right. The goal here is to keep it way back off the rim. And to scale it down to a more managable amount of homes.
The key here lies with working with the county folks to ask for protections that keep the New Wild and Scenic....
The time to act is now, voice your opinion to the Fayette County Planning commission. Otherwise you all are just blowing steam...
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clmbr121
Feb 21, 2005, 12:39 PM
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Re: Developer seeks to build 2,200 homes at the New River Go
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NRGRoscoe:
Is there a link to a page where people can voice their concerns to the appropriate people? Or any other contact info for that matter?
Thanks!
- Brian
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ladybigguns
Feb 21, 2005, 1:11 PM
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Re: Developer seeks to build 2,200 homes at the New River Go
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this sucks!!! :shock: :x
we dont need no more stinking houses!!
i second brian's post... is there something like that out there??/
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mr8615
Feb 21, 2005, 2:17 PM
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Re: Developer seeks to build 2,200 homes at the New River Go
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What i'm confused about is how will adding more homes boost the economy? Temporarily i guess there will be more jobs for manual labor, developing the property. But when the development is done, and the population goes up, will that mean more jobs? Where will these jobs come from? Will the additional 'upscale' population require more conviences (walmart, lowes, a mall etc.)? If these are to be tourist homes, vacation hidaways for the rich, what will this sprawl bring to the area? Tourism is already booming there, how much more could it handle? Is it really wise to encourage more paddling and climbing guide services to start up there? How much tourist crowding is too much? If this development is a success for the developer, what's to stop other moneyhungry developers from acquiring and developing/destroying other local areas? In my experience as an excavator (summer work), when one development goes up in an area, and succeeds in attracting buyers, other developers and extreme sprawl will follow immediately. How will this be beneficial to the locals and tourists, paddlers, and climbers who now enjoy the beauty of the New, the Meadow, and Summersville? As others have said, i'm not on one side or the other, but for right now i fail to see an upside to more development. Perhaps more industry or business, but sprawl doesn't really help anyone.
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nrgclimber
Feb 21, 2005, 2:52 PM
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Re: Developer seeks to build 2,200 homes at the New River Go
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Wow. It's so hard to repy to this post without losing my temper. I'll put it simply. As climbers I hope that you all can understand the passion for the words I'm about to write. Imagine finding that perfect place,setting, and rythym that most of us look for our whole lives. When I started climbing at the Gorge in 1998, I knew that I found that place right off the bat. The NRG is a sacred place for my friends and I. The community of climbers at the Gorge is a group of people who are all content and love where they live. In building all of these homes (in view from the walls or not) the whole town of Fayetteville will be changed forever.
Our town is small and slow paced. I love how I can walk down the street and know almost everyone I see. It would be a disgrace to see the whole town change into an aquarium of mindless plastic people who really don't even care about the town or its' history in the first place, to just move themselves to the area and provide it with more pollution and litter. But you say it will provide more jobs? Oh, I guess that makes everything ok then right? What's that? It's good for the economy too? Wow, then I guess it's ok to just go ahead and destroy the homes of all of the wildlife that so greatly needs its' own habitat then. Please think about the consequences that this will make and not just what's good for the economy people. We don't need or want our sacred town to be overpopulated like the suburbs of the rest of our country. We like it the way it is and we get by just fine.
One of the greatest things about the NRG is how we can make a living off of the natural resources it still has to offer, like the rivers and the rocks. I don't think that developing more jobs that require destruction of our mother earth are in any way of benefit to human kind in the long run. Just think about it. I moved here to get away from all of the madness that our government has plagued the rest of our country with. But I'm not surprised with this idea of expansion. We already destroyed the lives of the real founders of this state, the American Indian. Why not ruin our own lives as well. It's a disgusting cycle. Maybe one day we will realize the mistakes we've made beacuase of the one thing that makes humans so miserable for in the fisrt place. Greed. Please help us locals to preserve the land that we hold so dearly and close to our hearts. I hope I haven't offended anyone. Please understand that I just want to see the NRG remain as clean and untouched as it can be. Thanks for listening.
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dredsovrn
Feb 21, 2005, 4:14 PM
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Re: Developer seeks to build 2,200 homes at the New River Go
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I wonder what you would all say if a group of people who occasionally went near your house said you couldn't put in a pool, or a shed, or plant a tree because they didn't like how it changed the view as they drove through the area. If you feel so strongly about it, give the developer the value of the land as if it were developed and I am sure they will move on. Buck up, or shut up.
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boss
Feb 21, 2005, 4:25 PM
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Re: Developer seeks to build 2,200 homes at the New River Go
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I'll have to jump in with nrgclimber and mr8615 here. Sure new houses would bring some jobs to the area for a period of time and the money that would come into the community would be nice, but where is this money going to go? The cathedral will get some for sunday brunch and coffee, pies and pints will get some i'm sure (when does it reopen for spring business because i'm dyin' to "get some") and maybe the new homeowners will hit up the climbing shop to purchase the newest, trendy north face jacket. Great for those few businesses.
Now lets think about another aspect here. I grew up in and near several other towns economically similar to Fayetteville, WV. Several developments were built in the area. People that moved in here of course frequented local resturants and several of the well established, finer shops. In the long run however, it seems that when the population increases as such, the demand is present, and a few developers have their eye on an area.....chain business are bound to appear. I've seen several towns wiped out by stores such as wal-mart. Local hardware stores with generations of tradition now gone because a home depot moved in. The town I grew up in however refuses to allow any sort of chain business. The result, we still have a very close community, we still have our small shops, we still have out local resturants that are packed every night, we still have our little grocery store, and yes, the town still lives mainly in a slightly depressed state. People like it that way, and they have made it known over and over again. Do the people of Fayetteville like it that way? I don't know. At least one person does. I would imagine many others do as well.
Seeing communities deal with this situation before, I would say that ultimately, the choice has to be up to the people of Fayetteville. Do they want the benefits and possibly large downfalls of development? Or would it be better off to remain as is? Compromise might be the best option as mentioned above. Fewer homes farther away from the gorge. But will it stay at that, or will more developers weasle their way in to cash in on this potential gold mine? There are many variables to consider: size, location, marketing, impact on the area, etc. Interest in these homes will surely decrease as they are moved farther away from the gorge. If you weren't an outdoors type of person, would you buy a mansion in Fayetteville? Probably not. Scenic views of the gorge will sell these houses, not views of one of the rolling hills on the the way to Summersville.
My opinion, development is like a bottle of moonshine, it's good in small doses. Too much of it, and then you have a mess and a horrible headache to deal with. I like Fayetteville the way it is, quiet, low budget, charley's pub going people, and simple. I do not live there though. If I did, I wouldn't change it besides having a few more specialty type business move into the town. One thing I'm sure everyone will agree on will be to keep this thing the hell away from the cliff top. I hope all turns out well with this situation. Our best bet as already stated is to voice opinions respectfully with the Fayette Co Planning Commision.
Ranting in no particular order,
-boss
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crimpstrength
Feb 21, 2005, 4:28 PM
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The unfortunate probable reality of the situation is that the decision is far from any of our hands. Any land developer looking into that much real estate is no dummy. The developer obviously has whatever it takes to buy the land, increase its value and sell if for profit. Now go backwards a few years. The developer has enough power in important groups to get what he wants. He needs approval from goverment? He owns senators anyway. He needs environmental agency approval? He owns the agency. I truely hate to see the quality of the area degraded but at the same time you can not fight that type of authority with any hope of success. Thank you big business.
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mr8615
Feb 21, 2005, 4:31 PM
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Re: Developer seeks to build 2,200 homes at the New River Go
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In reply to: are you going to school at tech? if so i suggest you stop skipping economics class... upscale homes means upscale poketbooks spending in low scale stores putting some of that upscale poketbook into the low scale community so it's not so low scale any more. rinse, and repeat as needed, and kablam...
Whoa, nothin' like a personal attack. Geez. 'poketbooks' huh? How about you stop skipping spelling? I was just saying that more spending at kroger and waffle house won't really 'improve' the area's economy, there will be a higher demand for improved shopping and conviences which means even more development and destruction. It is a cycle, more development begets even more development. Rich people will want rich people stores, rich people services, etc. Hell, why not just tear off all of the trees above Kaymor and build a golf course.
It irks me that this is even being considered within park boundaries. A park is supposed to be set aside to preserve something that would otherwise be lost, something intrinsically valuable to all of us, not just the locals and not just the upscale pocketbooks.
I do consider myself a local to the New and I love the scene there even more than the climbing. Sure there is world class climbing, but what I love more are the friends that I've made out there and the memories I have of beautiful days spent relaxing at Roger's or crankin' at Endless. This development will forever change, and in my opinion destroy, the Fayetteville that we all know and love.
Mark
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allarounder
Feb 21, 2005, 6:28 PM
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Re: Developer seeks to build 2,200 homes at the New River Go
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In reply to: No insults intended, amigo. I just hate to see what is happening in this area happen there too. We have many housing developments, big, sprawling homes with perfect lawns and two SUV's, etc, and no jobs. sure. low paying slave jobs, but nothing more, really. Who will be buying these "mountain estates?" not coal miners, that's for sure. Just my 2 cents, for whatever it's worth. Hope your family does well if this deal goes through. peace.
I'm a miner, and have worked around Beckley and Charleston. coal miners could buy those houses if they wanted to. One of my coal buddies is a kayaker and lives 5 minutes from the New. And its hardly a wilderness area. Peaceful, yes. Wilderness, no. Good luck.
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leaverbiner
Feb 22, 2005, 5:07 AM
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Re: Developer seeks to build 2,200 homes at the New River Go
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Well, this issue really tears me apart. On the one hand, I completely understand the developers' side and strongly support individuals' property rights; afterall, I am a real estate attorney and I do development work for a living. On the other hand, I absolutely LOVE the NRG. I may not have been climbing there as long as some (probably only about 6 years), but I consider the New a second home, or my retreat from the rest of the world. I not only lvoe the climbing, the scenary, and when you get off the beaten path, the peace and quiet, but I also love the people. Over the years I have had the pleasure of getting to know many of the locals, particularly those involved in the climbing, paddling and tourism industries, but I have also grown to know and love so many random people from Fayetteville and beyond.
I can't wait to get back to the New this Spring and talk to the locals and see what it is that they really want for their town, take a look at the developers' plans, and really get a flavor for what is proposed. Each and every day I am an advocate for property owners and stress the fact that the constitution stridently protects the rights of property owners. However, there are limits. Limits that must be carefully applied, and must be based in law, but nonetheless limits. I strongly belive that my neighbor can not and should not be permitted to tell me what I can do with my land so long as the use of my land does not significantly affect the use and enjoyment of theirs and so long as the use of my land is within the confines of the law. This does nto however mean that developers are immune from pressure or even a sense of right and wrong. Many developers are learning that even if the almighty dollar rules the day, being a friendly neighbor can be the best policy, it can often save them money in the long run. All I am saying is that there is a lot to consider. If I had my first choice, no I would not want to see homes lining the rim. Do the developers possibly have the RIGHT to do so? Yes. It will depend on zonign laws and other applicable ordinances. Can you still ensure that the development is done responsibly? Definitely.
The land development process is long and tedious, this is not likely to be a decision that is made over night. I plan on being in Fayetteville by late MArch or early April, I will see what I can find out and try to keep people posted on my thoughts and keep the discussion alive.
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mr8615
Feb 22, 2005, 5:23 AM
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Re: Developer seeks to build 2,200 homes at the New River Go
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Thanks, leaverbiner, I'll see you there!
Mark
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