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korporal
May 2, 2005, 6:30 PM
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For a class, some friends and I debating whether or not video games cause violence. We have our main arguments sorted out and most of our rebuttals are in line. However the team we are going up against is rather good and we need some varying viewpoints on the subject. One of my teamates posted something in a videogame foum. As expected many of replies that went something like this:
Video games dont't cause violence! It's the parents that cause the problem. f***k, s***t, (and the rant goes on)
I figured there are some people here who have strong oppinions on things of this sort and, more importantly, know how to convey those ideas without excessive cursing and ranting. If you have an oppinion on the subject please post up.
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vertical_reality
May 2, 2005, 6:34 PM
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In reply to: I figured there are some people here who have strong oppinions on things of this sort and, more importantly, know how to convey those ideas without excessive cursing and ranting.
Are you new here or something?
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tgreene
May 2, 2005, 6:35 PM
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While it's likely that vidoe games and movies *have* had a great impact in neutralizing the shock value that once surrounded violence, it is still the individual person that is responsible for his or her own actions.
Over the years, we have all seen plenty of 'Slice & dice' movies and played a shoot-em-up game or 3, but about thye only thing the games can be guilty of, is increasing eye/hand coordination!
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jumpingrock
May 2, 2005, 6:46 PM
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Video games will cause violence just like movies, comics, books, etc will cause violence. If the user is not properly educated then there can be trouble. Just like all things, it boils down to the parents. Raise your kids well and likely they will turn out well, raise them like shit and likely they will turn to shit. Of course there is always the chance they will turn to shit anyway, that's why I likely won't have kids.
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korporal
May 2, 2005, 6:48 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I figured there are some people here who have strong oppinions on things of this sort and, more importantly, know how to convey those ideas without excessive cursing and ranting. Are you new here or something?
No...That how I know that people have strong oppinions on this type of thing. Some people have a tendancy to go off and curse, and rant, and go on forever about nothing. But, every once and a while there is a person who has thought out their oppinion and knows how to write without the cursing, the ranting, and the endless tangets.
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bluenose
May 2, 2005, 7:00 PM
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The trouble with action video games, not only violent ones, is the energy that you don't release while playing. In the games you mentally experience what the game is about, but that's it. Once you are finished playing you haven't done anything and are quite likely very edgy as an aftereffect. If you encounter a charged situation soon after a bout, I expect that a violent outcome may be more likely. Kind of like the non-violent propests that turn nasty because of an instigator and many people.
Cause violence directly, no.
I recall my brother while playing...Wolfenstein, possibly...quite intensely. One of the creatures popped onto the screen and he, literally, tried to jump out the window beside his workstation. I laughed for a long time over that one.
Jeff.
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zozo
May 2, 2005, 7:05 PM
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Shut up punk before I kick your ass.
........What was the question again?
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kimmyt
May 2, 2005, 7:23 PM
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Well, since I started playing Halo2 obsessively I've had the oddest desires to blow someone's brain out with a plasma gun. So, overall, I guess I'd say that video games haven't really made me more violent of a person.
K.
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bustloose
May 2, 2005, 7:32 PM
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one of the best quotes i have ever come across regarding kids/tv/video games and violence...
Hitler never watched tv.
one group or another will always find a way to blame something other than themselves for the various problems in the world. as a parent, if you want to shirk responsibility and blame the video world for your childs problems then you need serious help.
sadly, this debate will never have a winner because there are so many ignorant people in the world, but at least the endless discussion brings awareness to some, and that helps. the Nature vs. Nurture debate has been raging for ever...
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arrettinator
May 2, 2005, 9:26 PM
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I believe that video games contribute to violent behavior, sure.
Everything someone encounters contributes to behavior.
While I agree w/ jumpingrock that parents have a hand in this, they aren't the only ones.
It all starts w/ attitude. Not being a badass, but the persons outlook on the world around them and the way they act upon it.
No one can change that person's attitude, but themself.
All others can do is influence it.
This is where video games, movies, etc... come in.
It is the responsibility of the person, sure.
But when influenced by an outside source, people will do all sorts of things.
Drugs, cartoons, food, TV, animals, newspapers, conversations with strangers.........
They all contribute to ones attitude.
The mental state of a being is a tricky thing.
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padge
May 2, 2005, 10:32 PM
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Why just the other day after a long bout with Grand Theft Auto San Andreas I saw a nice low rider driving by. I opened the door pulled the guy out and took the car. Some cops saw me and jumped in hot persuit, I offed a couple of dozen before the national guard and FBI stepped in. Things were gettin a little hot so I made tracks to the nearest clothing store and changed my clothes, throwing them off track. Feeling a little low on 'energy' I picked up a hooker, had some fun, then robbed her. After that I was kinda bored so I started a gang war.
So, no video games don't cause violent behavior.
Seriously though I think violent behavior stems from ones inability to self govern. We all have violent thoughts (I think) but the decision to act is not determined by a video game, it's not real. Now if one is dilusional and cannot tell the difference between fantasy and reality then maybe video games can have an affect.
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grover
May 3, 2005, 1:37 AM
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If you consider Hemorrhoid's as a form of violence then my answer would be YES.
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aaronbr86
May 3, 2005, 3:40 AM
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Its just like another saying I know.......(guns dont kill people, people kill people). Video games arent the source of the problem. If violence is removed from video games they will suck to play and violence will just be channelled from somewhere else such as the childs homelife. The big problem that I have seen in most violent kids is the lack of discipline from their parents. If I acted as these kids did when I was younger my dad would have pulled out his big leather belt and would have given me a few swats with it. Hell, when I was a kid there were guns sitting around my house *gasp* unlocked with access to the ammo. Never once did I get the idea of carrying the gun to school or anything. My parents taught me right from wrong and used discipline properly and I turned out fine.
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wallcrawler
May 3, 2005, 4:20 AM
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In reply to: My parents taught me right from wrong and used discipline properly and I turned out fine.
Well said. I think it says a lot about a kid's upbringing if a few hours of video games can destroy tvelve years of parenting or more. Same goes for music and movies, IMHO if the parents did their job as parents instead of letting their kids be raised by the media the world would be a different place.
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arrettinator
May 3, 2005, 1:24 PM
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In reply to: if the parents did their job as parents instead of letting their kids be raised by the media the world would be a different place.
If parents "aren't doing their job" and letting media (computers, video games, movies, TV, music, music videos.. ) raise them, do you agree that it has an influence on their attitude?
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bluenose
May 3, 2005, 1:27 PM
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[quote="wallcrawler I think it says a lot about a kid's upbringing if a few hours of video games can destroy tvelve years of parenting or more. Same goes for music and movies, IMHO if the parents did their job as parents instead of letting their kids be raised by the media the world would be a different place.
From what I understand of child psychology, the kids' personalities are pretty much hardwired before they are 5 or 6. Those folks who ride along letting their kids do as they please figuring that they can straighten things out afterwards are delusional. Mold them when they are young and odds are in your favour that they will turn out fine. Mine are 6 and 11 so I'll let you know in a few years.
BTW, we don't watch TV (movies we buy or rent only) and don't play any video games. We find that we don't have time left over after being a family for that crap. It seems to work for us.
Jeff.
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danooguy
May 3, 2005, 1:30 PM
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Violent cartoons and early TV shows such as The Three Stooges had enough violence to create a pronounced increase in violence among children...if they in fact, could. They did not.
Violence is almost always triggered by social/political friction, or economics, not art or entertainment.
The difference is that in the sense of the video game, the argument is put forth that one is actually participating in a form of staged violence.
It would stand to reason then that other forms of staged violence involving participation such as paintball, should have the same effect, yet no one is clamoring about paintball causing teenagers to go on shooting rampages with real firearms.
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tradman
May 3, 2005, 2:07 PM
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If media influence our behaviour, then how come charlie chaplin never caused outbreaks of comedy? Did Pretty Woman contribute to an increase in youth romance?
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arrettinator
May 3, 2005, 2:14 PM
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In reply to: Violent cartoons and early TV shows such as The Three Stooges had enough violence to create a pronounced increase in violence among children...if they in fact, could. They did not.
Kids never smacked each other w/ sticks because they were sword fighting.
Kids never poked each other in the eyes, smacked each other... because they saw the Stooges do it?
In reply to: Violence is almost always triggered by social/political friction, or economics, not art or entertainment.
And also, I remember some teenagers getting killed from laying in the middle of the street, like they did in some movie years ago.
Media never plays a role in ones actions. :roll:
In reply to: The difference is that in the sense of the video game, the argument is put forth that one is actually participating in a form of staged violence. It would stand to reason then that other forms of staged violence involving participation such as paintball, should have the same effect, yet no one is clamoring about paintball causing teenagers to go on shooting rampages with real firearms.
It's sort of like BBguns were in our childhood.
The argument has been made.
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bumblie
May 3, 2005, 2:17 PM
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Anyone know why Road Runner and Bugs Bunny are no longer on TV? These toons are timeless, yet they ain't on Saturday TV no more. Could it be that those groups fighting violence on TV have brow beaten the TV execs into quietly removing these "violent" shows from the airwaves?
In reply to: Produced in 1960-2 by Friz Freleng and Chuck Jones. Produced in 1966-8 by David H. DePatie and Friz Freleng. Produced in 1968-75 by William L. Hendricks, Peter Morales, and Andrew Stein. Produced in 1975-85 by Hal Geer. Produced in 1985-6 by Hal Geer and Steven S. Greene. Produced in 1986-9 by Steven S. Greene and Kathleen Helppie-Shipley. Produced in 1989-90 by Jean H. MacCurdy and Kathleen Helppie-Shipley. Produced in 1990-2000 by Lorri A. Bond and Kathleen Helppie-Shipley. |
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tgreene
May 3, 2005, 2:23 PM
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In reply to: It would stand to reason then that other forms of staged violence involving participation such as paintball, should have the same effect, yet no one is clamoring about paintball causing teenagers to go on shooting rampages with real firearms.
Personally, I won't touch a paintball gun, because I'm so ingrained into the thinking that ANY item that ejects a projectile when a trigger mechanism is actuated by the user, is capable of destroying the target.. Basically, you never point a gun at anything, unless you fully intend to destroy or kill it!
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taualum23
May 3, 2005, 2:27 PM
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In reply to: Personally, I won't touch a paintball gun, because I'm so ingrained into the thinking that ANY item that ejects a projectile when a trigger mechanism is actuated by the user, is capable of destroying the target.. Basically, you never point a gun at anything, unless you fully intend to destroy or kill it!
Tim, there you go again, spouting off rational gun-related advice. Blah, blah, blah....if you dont want gun deaths, take guns seriously, if you don't want children accidently killing each other, teach them responsibility and not to point guns at each other. Enough already. If we wanted reason and common sense, we would all have listened by now.
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bumblie
May 3, 2005, 2:47 PM
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tgreene
May 3, 2005, 3:00 PM
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Ummmm, the mere fact that paintball GUNS are considered toys that are then being used for MALICIOUS INTENT, is precisely what this thread is all about, because violence begets violence.
If it wasn't for paintball guns, then Cain probably would have had to use a rock! :lol:
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bumblie
May 3, 2005, 3:08 PM
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In reply to: Ummmm, the mere fact that paintball GUNS are considered toys that are then being used for MALICIOUS INTENT, is precisely what this thread is all about, because violence begets violence.
But does participation in paintball games lead to violence elsewhere?
Does participation in martial arts inevitably lead to violence?
Does military service lead to violence outside the parameters of soldering?
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tgreene
May 3, 2005, 3:15 PM
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I believe that paintball sends the wrong message about firearms in general, by violating Rule #1.
Martial Arts typically focus on the mental aspect of the art, before delving into the physical. Someone that is unable to differentiate, will rarely ever advance, because that person would quickly be dropped from any reputable program.
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danooguy
May 3, 2005, 5:33 PM
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In reply to: Kids never hit their cats on the head w/ a hammer because they saw Jerry do it to Tom? Kids never smacked each other w/ sticks because they were sword fighting. Kids never poked each other in the eyes, smacked each other... because they saw the Stooges do it?
I will immediately agree with you and concede that you are probably right, arretinator, if you can coherently address this problem:
Explain why all of those things happened prior to the advent of radio, TV, computers, etc? Mankind has a history of violence that predates electricity and even the use of metals, for that matter.
A strong argument can be made that the younger a person is, the more he or she may be inclined to use violence for the wrong reasons, because they simply haven't enough life experience to know better. But, still, you would have one believe that normal people go on hammer-wielding rampages after a bout of watching Tom and Jerry cartoons?
In reply to: See above. And also, I remember some teenagers getting killed from laying in the middle of the street, like they did in some movie years ago. Media never plays a role in ones actions. Rolling Eyes
Weak stuff, using exceptions to prove a rule. Nevermind that laying in the street for a thrill is arguably about a half-step removed from climbing for the thrill of it all.
One would also think you might be able to discern between broad terms such as "one's actions" and pronounced aberrations of behavior such as violence.
You're stance is predicated upon the idea that people are as behaviorably flexible and malleable as over-cooked spaghetti...in fact, you even state that "food" can affect one's attitude, and therefore behavior.
In reply to: No, but the number of starlet-quality beauty prostitutes shopping on Rodeo drive went up exponentially.
I don't think that anyone stated that media doesn't not communicate things about people, places, and things. The question is does it directly cause violence as a result of mere observation?
If violence in media had the ability to influence people the way you paint it, you'd need an uzi in each hand to walk out and get your mail in the morning.
Tim, you're frozen paintball example is a bit over-the-top. Paintball is a game, the implements are glorified toys, no different than a baseball bat. Maybe we should "do research" on bats too. After all, they've been used in violence too, right? Is dodgeball violence? Or a game of controlled and benign aggression, like football? Does football cause violence? Should the spectators wear pads too then?
Lets see now...cartoons and video games, food, and "everyone you meet," paintball games...did I miss anything?
:D
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danooguy
May 3, 2005, 5:38 PM
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In reply to: Martial Arts typically focus on the mental aspect of the art, before delving into the physical.
Actually its the other way around. The physical aspect creates the path to the mental aspect.
Sign up for lessons. You begin by learning strikes and blocks, not meditating or contemplating your navel.
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bumblie
May 3, 2005, 6:06 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Does military service lead to violence outside the parameters of soldering? Ft. Benning has seen a huge increase in the number of spousal and child abuse cases lately, with soldiers that are returning from war. The media has focused on about a half dozen of these which resulted in first degree murder charges, but has left dozens of simple battery cases go un-reported.
Does this have to do with basic soldiering? My guess is there's a strong correlation between this domestic violence and our militarymen being forced to serve multiple tours of duty.
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tgreene
May 3, 2005, 6:26 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Martial Arts typically focus on the mental aspect of the art, before delving into the physical. Actually its the other way around. The physical aspect creates the path to the mental aspect. Sign up for lessons. You begin by learning strikes and blocks, not meditating or contemplating your navel. |
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wallcrawler
May 3, 2005, 8:35 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: if the parents did their job as parents instead of letting their kids be raised by the media the world would be a different place. So, media does play a roll? If parents "aren't doing their job" and letting media (computers, video games, movies, TV, music, music videos.. ) raise them, do you agree that it has an influence on their attitude?
I think without the proper guidance to put what they see in perspective, i believe it can play a roll, although probably not to the extent that some people have taken it. Age is probably a factor as well.
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pinktricam
May 3, 2005, 8:55 PM
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I don't believe that violence depicted in the media, be it Hollywood, or CNN is the 'cause' of a higher incidence of violence in our society as much as I think it desensitizes our culture to evil and an almost insidious acceptance of an escalating culture of evil in the world....for instance, just the other day while listening to yet another story of a suicide bomber, I caught myself almost shrugging, whereas, not so very long ago, I would have shaken my head in disgusted outrage.
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danooguy
May 5, 2005, 2:46 AM
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In reply to: I had the pleasure of doing a feature on 'Master Kim' in the Cleveland area... He made it very clear that a proper school should first ascertain whether a student had the mental integrity to able to posess the knowledge pertaining to the arts...
That he is competent enough to be sure that one has the mental integrity to possess the knowledge is not the same thing as teaching the mental aspects of the art before teaching the physical aspects.
I studied and taught martial arts for years and I'm familiar with Master Kim and a host of others from that region. I am also somewhat familiar with it because I lived, ate, slept, and breathed martials arts for a time in my life. I was also involved in full contact martial arts for quite some time, long before it became the circus that it is today. I am not pretending to know all there is to know, but I do know what is taught, when, and how. You are wrong, grasshopper.
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shortfatoldguy
May 5, 2005, 3:56 AM
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^^ What I remember from my brief period of study is mostly physical suffering. I don't think I hung around long enough to get to the mental stuff, unless the mental stuff was "ohmygod how am I going to avoid getting pounded by that huge cop again..." :lol:
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kman
May 5, 2005, 4:15 AM
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No...video games do not make people violent. I have played games all of my life. So STFU before I blow your head off you sh!t smear.
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danooguy
May 5, 2005, 4:05 PM
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The "mental" aspect of martial arts is a sort of by product of the day to day training. Regardless of how naturally tough you might be, you encounter others that are lesser physically and yet capable of humbling you with a certain ease. You quickly learn to not judge the book by its proverbial cover; that you should engage any opponent cautiously; that in the case of multiple opponents you must critical decisions as to whom you will engage first in order to avoid engaging them all, and on and on.
Generally it is a process of self-discovery, a probing of physical and mental perimeters, of one's abilities to deal with very high levels of physical and mental stresses... not unlike climbing.
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arrettinator
May 5, 2005, 4:08 PM
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Once you can snatch the pebblewrestler from the master's hand, then you are ready to leave the temple.
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dookie
May 5, 2005, 4:25 PM
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In reply to: Does this have to do with basic soldiering? My guess is there's a strong correlation between this domestic violence and our militarymen being forced to serve multiple tours of duty.
much of the current causes of domestic violence with our servicemen can certainly be partly attributed to the service they are now performing. A soldier who would never dream of such acts when he was working on base, had a house with his wife and kids, and saw them on a daily basis while he worked more or less 6am to 5pm - that soldier can certainly do a 180 degree turn when faced with the deployments etc. they see today. That same soldier comes home after a year tour in Iraq, only to learn his unit will be returning next year, or he has had a stop loss put on him so he cannot get out of the military when he thought - that same soldier now has a lot more pent up anger and stress than before and finds himself taking it out on his spouce and/or children.
Another of the many causes can be coming home to find your wife has moved out on you, or has found someone new. This happens A LOT to these guys. Their wives get lonely after a few months of waiting. The phone calls and letters aren't enough for them. The men come home to find out their wives have found someone else or have been cheating on them continuously and this sends them over the edge.
It by no means excuses their behavior at all - domestic violence is a despicable and abhorable act.
Is it because of the violence they have seen or experienced, though? I don't think entirely. Sure it could have something to do with it - but I think it's more frustration with their situation than anything else.
Keep in mind there is also the possibility that the drugs given to soldiers before they deploy (anthrax, etc.) that have been shown to cause some behavioral disorders, such as severe depression and mood swings. Doesn't really help the situation.
I can tell you this, I live with a former marine who fought in Iraq, and if anything, he is much calmer and relaxed now than before his war experience. He relates it to what he saw and did in Iraq. He saw violence and mahem first hand, and was under a lot of pressure and stress - on top of worrying about his family and friends back here while he was deployed - it was not an easy emotional situation to be in. He really seems to have found a lot of inner peace - I think a lot of it comes out of what he experienced and saw in war. I know that is not necessarily the case for everyone, but while some can relate experiencing violence to displaying more violence at home, I have seen the opposite effect.
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korporal
May 10, 2005, 8:06 PM
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Bump
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thorne
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May 10, 2005, 8:29 PM
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After participating in this thread last week, I heard Rosanne Rosanadana on the radio, talking about "violins on TV". It cracked me up.
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