|
jakedatc
May 1, 2006, 4:39 AM
Post #2 of 38
(21257 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 12, 2003
Posts: 11054
|
Do you have a close up pic of the other half of the draw while it was on the rock? Looks like it got loaded and slid over that sharp edge and cut.. not broke. In that case it's not a petzl problem but a damn good reason to have that bolt moved up a bit.
oop.. double post.. but i'll leave it so posts after make sense.
|
|
|
|
|
treez
May 1, 2006, 4:44 AM
Post #3 of 38
(21257 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 11, 2004
Posts: 347
|
Same thing happened in Michigan a while back. The draw was drug over a sharp edge next to the bolt. I tried to call bullshat, but ended up with my foot in my mouth. I can almost see the same scenario in your pic. Didn't he slam that wall?
Pictures wider than 6 or 700 really f*ck with some users. You can improve your computer Karma by re-sizing a bit. Also, a zoom of that top bolt would be good. In fact, I'll get on that.
edited to add: I knew I didn't have time to spellcheck
|
|
|
|
|
mrsuicide
May 1, 2006, 4:45 AM
Post #4 of 38
(21257 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 18, 2004
Posts: 104
|
yeah it looks definately to be a problem with that sharp edge with that bolt placement, not with the construction of the draw.
|
|
|
|
|
boombewm
May 1, 2006, 4:46 AM
Post #5 of 38
(21257 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 28, 2006
Posts: 109
|
Wow. Only time I've heard about draws snapping was some trick Dan Osman was doing, and at that, I thought it was a myth. Yeah, I don't think im going out on a gander by saying that is NOT typical, I'd hit up petzl about that and also check all your draws to see if there is weak points in them. Good catch
Edit: surely hes not the only one to fall on this route on lead, and with a new draw? I suppose I'd expect people talking about this. Although, after looking at the picture again, it would be nearly perfect for that edge to cut it.
|
|
|
|
|
benpullin
May 1, 2006, 4:47 AM
Post #6 of 38
(21257 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 14, 2003
Posts: 360
|
Looking at the photo of the route and the position of the carabiner that remained, I would guess that the sling was cut by the edge of the roof rather than failing due to impact force.
Also, looking at the remainder of the draw, the clean edge of the sling where the carabiner would attach is consistent with being cut rather than blowing out.
I'm no expert, but that what looks like happened to me...
I'd get whoever bolted the route to move the 2nd bolt a foot higher.
|
|
|
|
|
boombewm
May 1, 2006, 4:48 AM
Post #7 of 38
(21257 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 28, 2006
Posts: 109
|
Wow. Only time I've heard about draws snapping was some trick Dan Osman was doing, and at that, I thought it was a myth. Yeah, I don't think im going out on a gander by saying that is NOT typical, I'd hit up petzl about that and also check all your draws to see if there is weak points in them. Good catch
It's horseshoe...surely you're not the only one to fall on lead on that route and with a new draw? probably a little more than a sharp edge
|
|
|
|
|
jakedatc
May 1, 2006, 4:50 AM
Post #8 of 38
(21257 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 12, 2003
Posts: 11054
|
Do you have a close up pic of the other half of the draw while it was on the rock? Looks like it got loaded and slid over that sharp edge and cut.. not broke. In that case it's not a petzl problem but a damn good reason to have that bolt moved up a bit.
**edit I'd say you should talk to the people in the area about moving the bolt to above that horizontal. anywhere on that block it's on now is asking for it to do the same thing as you can't get the lower biner above that edge, so some part of the nylon will but running over it.
did you hear any sort of tearing before the snap.. it looks like it got part way through the draw then popped when it was too weakened. looking at the petzl site they have a video on their drop testing.. and it shows a piece of harness webbing that they broke.. it's all frayed.. yours looks cut through most of the way
damn good job belaying to keep him off the deck though.. props for that.
they may want to hear about it anyway
Petzl America
Freeport Center M-7
PO Box 160447
CLEARFIELD
UT 84016
USA
Tel : (801) 926-1500
Fax : (801) 926-1501
E-mail : info@petzl.com
Web : www.petzl.com
|
|
|
|
|
davken1102
May 1, 2006, 5:05 AM
Post #9 of 38
(21257 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 21, 2006
Posts: 17
|
No, I didn't hear any tearing or anything just a sudden snap. He had just made the clip in, the route already had the draws up because I had just gotten off the route. He clipped the rope in and moved up about 2ft. above and had his feet in the crack about a foot right and upwards of the second bolt when he lost his hand placement and fell backwards. The draw was actually being pulled away from the rock because of the first clip, so I didn't think it was even rubbing up against the rock's edge. I don't have any pics of how the draw was hanging before it broke but the bottom carabiner was hanging the same direction as the one still attached to the rock.
Sorry if the pics are big, tryin to keep picture quality.
|
|
|
|
|
majid_sabet
May 1, 2006, 5:14 AM
Post #10 of 38
(21257 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 13, 2002
Posts: 8390
|
The weakest part is where the sling broke off, so I had seen it in similar cases in about the same area. I would send it to Petz so they could check it out.
|
|
|
|
|
overlord
May 1, 2006, 6:22 AM
Post #13 of 38
(21257 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 14120
|
looks like it was draged over the edge to me too. even though the draw couldve been pulled away from the edge while climber was climbing, he probebly swung when he fell. and i doesnt take a lot to cut the webbing under that kind of stress.
|
|
|
|
|
jimdavis
May 1, 2006, 6:31 AM
Post #14 of 38
(21257 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 1, 2003
Posts: 1935
|
Agreed. That looks like a cut to me, too.
Maybe the locals could put some chain links on that bolt? So you don't have to redrill, and that gets the biners and nylon off of that edge....it'd be a pain to clip though. Just an idea.
Cheers,
Jim
|
|
|
|
|
tonloc
May 1, 2006, 7:38 AM
Post #15 of 38
(21257 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 1, 2005
Posts: 249
|
looks cut, nice catch, good story at a campfire
|
|
|
|
|
doogle
May 1, 2006, 7:43 AM
Post #16 of 38
(21257 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 21, 2005
Posts: 89
|
Scary!
Bolters, take note...
|
|
|
|
|
sbaclimber
May 1, 2006, 7:53 AM
Post #17 of 38
(21257 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 22, 2004
Posts: 3118
|
In reply to: Scary! Bolters, take note... |
|
|
|
|
cactusedd
May 1, 2006, 8:10 AM
Post #18 of 38
(21257 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 19, 2006
Posts: 45
|
In reply to: Agreed. That looks like a cut to me, too. Maybe the locals could put some chain links on that bolt? So you don't have to redrill, and that gets the biners and nylon off of that edge....it'd be a pain to clip though. Just an idea. Cheers, Jim
Good call. What about just putting a permanent in situ draw there instead, like a Frost Power Draw? Why let anyone else deal with having their gear cut???
|
|
|
|
|
tradmule
May 1, 2006, 12:00 PM
Post #19 of 38
(21257 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 31, 2006
Posts: 34
|
Might be worth having one or two of those cable draws on your rack to deal with that.
http://frostworksclimbing.com/powerdraws.html
Mule
|
|
|
|
|
redpoint73
May 1, 2006, 1:27 PM
Post #20 of 38
(21257 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 20, 2002
Posts: 1717
|
Glad your buddy was not hurt.
Absolutely looks cut through, based on where it broke: high up, near the top biner, right where that sharp edge is.
I have not seen this outside, but I have seen it in the gym. A fixed draw broke due to it being abraded through over the lip of a roof. Orientation was almost exactly the same as the photos above (but much higher up, thankfully). The draw was at least several months in the same position, but over a smooth edge (commercially installed wall with steel frame, covered with plywood then concrete texture). A girl whipped on it, the draw broke, and she fell an additional 10-15 feet. It scared the crap out of her and she screamed all way down. Luckily, she was unhurt. The gym replaced the draw with a heavy chain.
You can contact Petzl, but I doubt they are at fault in any way. I believe they pull test everything before it leaves the factory, like BD does. Strength wise, the draws are rated to much more than you will ever subject them to. But they may be curious about your incident. They may even send you a replacement as a courtesy.
As far as re-equipping the route, chain links with a permanent stainless steel quick clip (stainless wire gate biner) might be the best option.
I am thinking of something like:
http://www.rei.com/...0708&vcat=REI_SEARCH
|
|
|
|
|
jaybro
May 1, 2006, 1:47 PM
Post #21 of 38
(21257 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 2, 2005
Posts: 441
|
Nice catch!
For sure mention this to Petzel. Looks like a tear (not their fault), but they can use all the data they can get.
My initial thought was, "Good place for a chain draw," and others beat me to it. I remember a fixed draw @ cave rock that, over time, cut about halfway through on a similar edge, before being replaced.
|
|
|
|
|
fobnicat
May 1, 2006, 1:50 PM
Post #22 of 38
(21257 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 8, 2006
Posts: 66
|
Wow, this just proves that you can never be too careful when climbing.. I know I am one of the worlds worst about getting into a routine and just trusting everything. Although, I dont believe there was anyway to see this coming... Awesome job on the belay.... Oh, and the expression on your buddies face is pricelss..
|
|
|
|
|
jaybro
May 1, 2006, 1:55 PM
Post #23 of 38
(21257 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 2, 2005
Posts: 441
|
Nice catch!
For sure mention this to Petzel. Looks like a tear (not their fault), but they can use all the data they can get.
My initial thought was, "Good place for a chain draw," and others beat me to it. I remember a fixed draw @ cave rock that, over time, cut about halfway through on a similar edge, before being replaced.
|
|
|
|
|
fitzontherocks
May 1, 2006, 1:58 PM
Post #24 of 38
(21257 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 11, 2003
Posts: 864
|
Wherre on the Ranch is that route?
And ditto what's already been said: nice catch, looks cut, glad he's not hurt, yadda yadda yadda.
|
|
|
|
|
jaybro
May 1, 2006, 2:19 PM
Post #25 of 38
(21257 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 2, 2005
Posts: 441
|
zap
|
|
|
|
|
jakedatc
May 1, 2006, 2:23 PM
Post #26 of 38
(6042 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 12, 2003
Posts: 11054
|
i think something more like this one.. with the ring hanging just past the lip so you could keep using your own draws might work out better? Having used the ones you mention at the top of routes they would be very difficult to clip on lead and would probably add some rope drag
http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?productId=47903483&storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000&langId=-1&addon=722509-723307&ext_cat=REI_RELATED_ITEMS_PRODUCT_PAGE&vcat=REI_SEARCH
|
|
|
|
|
mr8615
May 1, 2006, 2:34 PM
Post #27 of 38
(6042 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 4, 2004
Posts: 1032
|
It might even be adequate (and cheaper) to add two quicklinks and a STEEL rap ring. Enough extension to get past that edge would be all you need.
Mark
|
|
|
|
|
redpoint73
May 1, 2006, 2:45 PM
Post #29 of 38
(6042 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 20, 2002
Posts: 1717
|
In reply to: i think something more like this one.. with the ring hanging just past the lip so you could keep using your own draws might work out better? Having used the ones you mention at the top of routes they would be very difficult to clip on lead and would probably add some rope drag http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?productId=47903483&storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000&langId=-1&addon=722509-723307&ext_cat=REI_RELATED_ITEMS_PRODUCT_PAGE&vcat=REI_SEARCH
I thought about that, but that chain just looks so damn long. Especially after you add a draw. Do they offer one with a shorter chain? I suppose you can cut it shorter, then reconnect the ring with a quick link. That might work best.
BTW, I love the description on the REI page:
"Place two anchors together for even greater enduring strength"
That sold me!
|
|
|
|
|
davken1102
May 1, 2006, 4:20 PM
Post #30 of 38
(6042 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 21, 2006
Posts: 17
|
In reply to: Wherre on the Ranch is that route?
In the Ren and Stimpy area.
|
|
|
|
|
codhands
May 1, 2006, 5:02 PM
Post #31 of 38
(6042 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 21, 2005
Posts: 499
|
Be sure to check under your car for brake fluid leaks before you drive off in the morning... I think someones got it in for you :)
|
|
|
|
|
trenchdigger
May 1, 2006, 5:46 PM
Post #32 of 38
(6042 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 9, 2003
Posts: 1447
|
You may want to consider changing your thread title. The draw didn't snap, it cut on the rock's edge. The title also suggests that the Petzl draw was faulty when the failure was the result of a poorly placed bolt. Any fabric draw could/would have failed in the same manner. "Quickdraw cut!! Partner Almost Decked..." seems more appropriate.
|
|
|
|
|
krusher4
May 1, 2006, 6:08 PM
Post #33 of 38
(6042 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 17, 2005
Posts: 997
|
damn close call, I'm glad no one was hurt.
|
|
|
|
|
cragkiller
May 1, 2006, 6:10 PM
Post #34 of 38
(6042 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 18, 2006
Posts: 24
|
that is a wicked cool story glad nobody got hurt
|
|
|
|
|
jakedatc
May 1, 2006, 10:36 PM
Post #35 of 38
(6042 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 12, 2003
Posts: 11054
|
someone bumped a thread from 2005 that had pretty much the same situation.. draw over an edge=cut draw .. cept they decked with just some bruising instead of getting caught by the rope
http://www.geocities.com/...ell/fromdistance.jpg
at least this thread has been civilized.. the old one was ..... not
|
|
|
|
|
wannabe
May 1, 2006, 10:42 PM
Post #36 of 38
(6042 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 30, 2004
Posts: 483
|
Do everyone a favor and put a quicklink and a few links of heavy gage chain on there so no one else gets a quick-draw cut. You can get the items at home depot for a couple of bucks.
Vince
|
|
|
|
|
treez
May 1, 2006, 10:48 PM
Post #37 of 38
(6042 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 11, 2004
Posts: 347
|
I have a name and I put a link to the thread on page one along with my views on unnecessarily wide photos in threads. Check it out. :wink:
|
|
|
|
|
jakedatc
May 2, 2006, 12:27 AM
Post #38 of 38
(6042 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 12, 2003
Posts: 11054
|
Hey treez.. if that is your real name *squint* i'm not in a particularly good mood today so people can deal with the extra wide blurry photo ;) but you did a good job bumping.. yessir.. A+ bump from quite a while back
and can the title be changed yet lol you have all those sponsored folks with the bigass petzl patches on every draw freaking out ;)
|
|
|
|
|
|
