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v10gripper
Feb 1, 2003, 4:05 AM
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not v14+
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lox
Feb 1, 2003, 4:06 AM
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v4+
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vram1974
Feb 1, 2003, 4:15 AM
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The Mandala sit-down is V13 I think
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lox
Feb 1, 2003, 4:22 AM
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v4+
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jono13
Feb 1, 2003, 5:39 AM
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V4!? HAH! talk about more like V2-! its overrated! i dont know what sharma was smokin there! Now easy in easy chair, thats a big V95!!!!
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lox
Feb 1, 2003, 5:44 AM
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Vee Four PLUS.
IPS4LYFE.
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crux_clipper
Feb 1, 2003, 6:54 AM
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Stand start is rated at 8A - V11
Sit Start is rated at 8B - V13
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boulderingmadman
Feb 1, 2003, 7:55 AM
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a show of hands, please how many of you know-it-all muther%@#$ers have climbed it?!?!
you see...its super easy to say anything is any grade...but how many of you have not only climbed the mandala, but also several other problems at the same level and harder??
anyone who cant say they have, cant say what its graded...
[edited for clarity]except lox...hes closer than any of you...[/edit]
[ This Message was edited by: boulderingmadman on 2003-01-31 23:56 ]
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lemurboy
Feb 1, 2003, 2:19 PM
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Did u guys here that the Mandala went SIT start????
crazy this ups the grade to V13
Toni Lamiche (a french guy) went to bishop in november and tore it up!
he sent Mandala standing start, Mandala sit start, Buttermilker, Spectre, and Evilution
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phil_nev
Feb 1, 2003, 3:31 PM
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Man in the dosage vid, sharma jokes that the grade would be V16??????
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lox
Feb 1, 2003, 3:45 PM
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v4+
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lemurboy
Feb 1, 2003, 4:23 PM
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The way sharma did it, is way harder...He didnt know any beta for this thing so he made his own up!
Then Dave Graham came and said hey this would be easier and did it a easier way thus lower the grade.
[ This Message was edited by: lemurboy on 2003-02-01 08:24 ]
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boulderingmadman
Feb 2, 2003, 2:10 AM
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so, aparrently, lemurboy and phil_nev have climbed it?? how the hell can either one of you claim to know what the grade is? so sharma thought it was the hardest thing he had done at the time. so this is a reason to accuse him of overgradinbg it, when he said he wasnt grading it?
you guys talk too much and climb too little. have you ever even seen the line in question in person? or have you just seen pictures of it in mags and videos? so now all of a sudden, you know that sharmas beta was harder, and grahams beta made it easier, and its v11.6875+, unless you use the third crimp from the left flake 6.231 inches from the ground. than its a v14-.
but from the sit, its gotta be at least v13.986 give or take. right?
goddamn...im with Lox, v4+...
[ This Message was edited by: boulderingmadman on 2003-02-01 18:11 ]
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phil_nev
Feb 2, 2003, 2:41 AM
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boulderingmadman, chill out man.
No i havnt seen the mandala, just pics and videos. I wasnt putting sharma or anyone down, i was just stating that thats what he would have graded it. If shara feels like it's the hardest thing hes climbed fine, V16.... I personaly like the fact that he dosnt grade most (??) of his problems, it shows he's in it for the love of climbing, not for ticking big numbers.
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lox
Feb 2, 2003, 4:31 AM
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v4+
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zzsean
Feb 2, 2003, 4:56 AM
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Why is this discussion still going it was decided long ago by the offical powers that be that Mandala is V4+
Mick will be updating the guide is due course. (he has the committees to work with still)
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crux_clipper
Feb 2, 2003, 5:30 AM
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boulderingmadman...where the @#$% do you get off telling people they can't comment on a grade of a climb. So, and i'm taking your theory, no climber is allowed to comment on the grade of an establised problem or climb, if they haven't done it, is this right....seish!
just to name a few...
Dave Graham, Tim Clifford, Mat Birch, Ian Vickers, Dave Struthers, Matt Wilder, Miles Gibson, Wills Young, Jerome Meyer, Julian Nadires have all sent 'mandala'.
so you see, we are able to discuss the grade of the climb, as the general consensus is that its V11, V13s-s. We able able to dicuss that it has infact been downgraded from an original grade (not sharmas) of V14.
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v10gripper
Feb 2, 2003, 6:07 AM
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loxs i gotta go with a solid v4- i mean with all of those new holds that someone chipped in it i can so campus the thing now, well they either chipped it or brushed off all the choss and uncoverd all these jugs
i started this thread because in the pro athlete bios it says that the mandala is v14+
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lox
Feb 2, 2003, 7:06 AM
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ips4lyfe.
v4+
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boulderingmadman
Feb 2, 2003, 6:56 PM
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youre missing the point. its a classic case of dont talk $#!& when you have no idea what youre talking about.
the only basis for any of this conversation is the opinion of someone else...someone who themselves have never climbed it.
so unless your name is sharma, graham, roth, lamiche, or the steadily growing number of people who have climbed it, you plainly dont know what youre talking about, and you should drop it. you dont see me sitting here talking about brain surgery and rocket science like i am the authority on it, just because i read a few articles in a magazine and watched a video once, do you?
you guys can argue about what the damn thing is graded all you want, and you wont change the fact that you havent climbed it, and probably never will climb it. instead you should be talking about its beauty. its location. its absolute perfection in relation to the term highball problem. because these are the only issues in which you might have a valid and supportable opinion.
oh, and dont get me wrong--im definately chilled out. i find it more ironic than angering. i love reading about people talking ridiculous $#!& abouth things they no absolutely nothing about. they always prove themselves to be an idiot, at least in that situation.
oh yea, crux-clipper--if sharma didnt rate the thing v14, than how can it be the "original grade"? shouldnt it have been left ungraded? sure, you can discuss the difficulty of a problem without having climbed it.
but to get on a public forum and declare that XYZ problem is graded vblablabla having never climbed that grade nor that problem, you are talking $#!&. plain and simple...
[ This Message was edited by: boulderingmadman on 2003-02-02 10:59 ]
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alwaysforward
Feb 2, 2003, 9:06 PM
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bouldering madman, you're an idiot. watch this.
Person A: Hey, what is Dreamtime graded at right now?
Person B: Dreamtime is graded v15.
Person A: Thank you.
notice how this has nothing to do with whether or not B climbed Dreamtime. He's stating what is a fact right now. Just like this talk about mandala.
Let's try another example.
Person A: Where's is my brain?
Person B: Inside your head.
B never saw a brain but can answer the question.
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kurtneis
Feb 2, 2003, 10:00 PM
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ok for all of you who care!!! it is obvious in dosage that sharma is joking when he says V16 . sharma is not caught up in the the ratings of climbs, he just CLIMBS so if you still want to quibble then go ahead
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boulderingmadman
Feb 2, 2003, 11:43 PM
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from crux clipper, who appears to have climbed it--" Stand start is rated at 8A - V11
Sit Start is rated at 8B - V13"
fine, if hes climbed it...awfully confident if he hasnt, since its not in any of the guidebooks, and most of the ratings have been offered by people who havent climbed it.
from lemurboy--"Did u guys here that the Mandala went SIT start????
crazy this ups the grade to V13"
hmm...for someone who hasnt climbed it, he sure knows alot about how hard it is...even from the sit.
again from lemurboy--"The way sharma did it, is way harder...He didnt know any beta for this thing so he made his own up!
Then Dave Graham came and said hey this would be easier and did it a easier way thus lower the grade."
pointless if he hasnt done sharmas beta and knows that its harder. really pointless when you consider that if graham came along and found an easier way, he "made up his own" beta for it, anyhow...
and finally from alwaysforward--"Person A: Hey, what is Dreamtime graded at right now?
Person B: Dreamtime is graded v15.
Person A: Thank you."
a really bad example since in your scenario, a grade was offered from the first ascenionist, and confirmed by a secondist. sharma never offered a grade, and most repeaters have not given a grade, only offered an opinion.
so, in conclusion, if you have a reason to have an opinion on what you think the grade is, by all means, spray away. if you have no reason to have an opinion on what the grade might be, you are either talking $#!&, or trying to impress someone with how much knowledge you have.
ps--its v4+
[ This Message was edited by: boulderingmadman on 2003-02-02 15:44 ]
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mustclimb69
Feb 3, 2003, 12:52 AM
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Sharma probabally had some gas or a headache and thought it was the hardest thing he has ever climbed ...
V4+
Im with LOX
[ This Message was edited by: mustclimb69 on 2003-02-02 16:54 ]
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lilred
Feb 3, 2003, 12:56 AM
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i've been on it...
(the 1st move that is)
~giggle~
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lox
Feb 3, 2003, 8:21 AM
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v4+
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crux_clipper
Feb 3, 2003, 9:20 AM
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boulderingmadman, u just don't get it do u...ur absolutely lost. your logic on whether or not we should comment on the grade of a climb is stupid. I myself do not say that mandala is graded V11 or V13, but from the information i read on the net is how i found it out. You know what reading information is, don't u? Or you don't bother, as seen as you haven't climbed a climb, or sent a problem, theres no need to know anything about it.
Wake up call!!! what do you think the forums here are for? to pass on information about climbing related topics, so those who don't know already, can find satisfaction that they have a little bit more knowledge about climbing.
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neadamthal
Feb 3, 2003, 12:26 PM
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LOX - do you have a stutter or are you in the state of bliss that your ignorance betrays!?
ie, why are you posting the same comment in various forms over and over and over????
is there method to your madness?
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lox
Feb 3, 2003, 4:53 PM
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It's just that there is a better scale for measuring difficulty, is all.
And on that scale, the Mandala is v4+.
v4+4lyfe.
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tim
Feb 3, 2003, 5:38 PM
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I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the only person so far that seems qualified to comment on the problem authoritatively is Meghan, and she has not done so.
The rest of the discussion boils down to 'I read that this ungraded-by-the-FA-ist problem is V-foo' and 'I am going to mock your ignorance by telling you, with just as much authority, that it is v4+'.
And who is to say that v4+ is wrong, unless they've been on the problem to determine that for themselves.
I read in the news (Weekly World, that is) that Bat Boy did a sick new upside-down teeth start on the Mandolin and graded it B3...
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climblouisiana
Feb 3, 2003, 5:48 PM
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It's been repeated.
B2
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v10gripper
Feb 3, 2003, 5:58 PM
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its funny this was supposed to let some folks know that something needs to be corrected, who really gives a $#!&. most of us will never be able o climb it so whats the point of us arguing about it?
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tim
Feb 3, 2003, 6:02 PM
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Why didn't you send a PM to the person maintaining the 'Pro Athletes' section, if you were looking to submit a correction?
What it came off sounding like was a sycophantic sprayathon about His Holiness Chris Sharma. Perhaps if you had clarified your intent that wouldn't have happened. Bummer.
ps. if you want to try climbing it, Bishop really isn't that far from Yucca Valley.
[ This Message was edited by: tim on 2003-02-03 10:13 ]
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boulderingmadman
Feb 3, 2003, 6:21 PM
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i never accused you of anything, crux_clipper. in fact, i dont know who you are, but you are the most offended by my tirade.
look, if you havent climbed it, you are passing along rumo0ur and conjecture from one mouth to the next. if you really wanna know how hard the damn thing is, come to bishop and climb the %@#$ing thing...
checkitout--does this me make more of an authority on it than you? according to you, it would, cause where youve only read about it, ive actually attempted(to get off the ground) it. so i guess im better than you...
the point is, the %@#$ing problem is hard. harder than i can climb, harder than you can climb, and harder than most of us will ver be able to climb. so to sit on an internet forum and pass off gossip as if it were actual information is retarded.
oh, yes, nice try on the flame. but youll have to do better than that, crux_clipper...
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tim
Feb 3, 2003, 6:32 PM
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That really is a beautiful problem. I had never seen it from that angle before.
Too bad the only way I'm liable to get up it is on bathooks. Oh well, I'll stick to crack climbing.
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vertical_reality
Feb 3, 2003, 6:46 PM
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Here are a few quotes taken from 8a.nu -
"Apparently, Anthony Lamiche has grabbed the first flash-ascent of Sharma's Mandala, 8A+, at Bishop. Mandala was put up more than two years ago and some were speculating 8B+ since Sharma didn't rate the boulder. Mandala is in fact the most frequented boulder news at 8a.nu and it has been continously down-graded and also 8A, has been mentioned." - 8a.nu Nov 27, 2002
"Mick Ryan of Rockfax tells us Anthony Lamiche has done the sit start to the Mandala, giving it 8B." - 8a.nu Dec 2, 2002
So from these two sources, who have both climber the problem, the direct start is 8a+ (V12) and the sit start is 8b (V13).
Other then the the vids and pics I've seen I haven't been within a few hundred miles of Mandala... but I know how to quote people who have been.
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tim
Feb 3, 2003, 6:53 PM
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Wonderful. But how does pointing at someone else's contention buttress your own?
Instead of saying 'I have climbed [a] and so has Anthony Lamiche, and we both agree it is 5.13+' you are simply handing around rehashed spray. For a problem that was never graded to begin with (and probably to avoid EXACTLY THIS SORT OF SPRAYATHON), it sure does get a lot of attention focused on its grade.
Anyone here can read 8a.nu. Not many people here can climb 8A. The latter are the ones that people are interested in hearing from, as regards the grade of a hard problem.
Why people cannot understand this is beyond me. You ask me about Crack of Dawn, I'll tell you all about it, because I've climbed the damn thing. I ignored this thread until I couldn't take it anymore -- Lox is not known for subtlety, but somehow, even with his sledgehammer delivery, people Just Weren't Getting It. Unbelievable.
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vertical_reality
Feb 3, 2003, 7:09 PM
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So by your thinking, if the FAer didn't put a grade on a climb then it can never be graded becuase its all spray if not?
Oh ya, can you please point out where I said what I thought the grade was (jeez, I even went so far as to say that I've never been near it). I quoted two climber who said what THEY thought the grade was. Whats the difference between this and looking it up in a guidebook?
Can't you children find anything more entertaining to fight about? I don't think the original poster was trying to give his opinion on the grade but rather giving the consensus grade of those who have climbed it.
[ This Message was edited by: vertical_reality on 2003-02-03 11:23 ]
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lox
Feb 3, 2003, 7:31 PM
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v4+
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tim
Feb 3, 2003, 7:39 PM
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Quote:
Can't you children find anything more entertaining to fight about?
The irony is so thick you could choke on it.
The original poster is a she, and she has already explained her reasons. I question both your reading comprehension, and your motivations. Post count anyone?
Point 2:
Quote:
Oh ya, can you please point out where I said what I thought the grade was[?]
Why yes, I can.
Quote:
the direct start is 8a+ (V12) and the sit start is 8b (V13).
Now you're going to say that you wrote 'from these two sources...' and that makes it okay. But it doesn't. The whole point of this discussion is that anyone can read a mag, open a guidebook, surf to a website. Those are not primary sources, and they don't add much. I don't care *what* the climb is graded. At *all*. I just got tired of seeing it on the front page, and people seemed pretty thick.
Quote:
So by your thinking, if the FAer didn't put a grade on a climb then it can never be graded becuase its all spray if not?
By my thinking, your opinion of the grade on a problem you've never climbed, never been near, and don't really have a basis to judge, is worthless. Not just yours, but anyone in that situation. My opinion of the grade on the Mandala is of no consequence either.
OT: Nice link Lox. I love it. I still think the B scale is the only scale, though.
[ This Message was edited by: tim on 2003-02-03 11:50 ]
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vertical_reality
Feb 3, 2003, 7:46 PM
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LOL My post count? Now thats funny... since you love Lox's posts so much.
I'm still waiting for you to reply to my questions.
[Edit] Sorry, Tim answered my questions after I posted this.
[ This Message was edited by: vertical_reality on 2003-02-03 11:55 ]
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tim
Feb 3, 2003, 7:52 PM
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See above.
My post count is a direct reflection of the fact that I routinely have to point out the obvious (normally as regards codebases, but occasionally a particularly stupid flamewar like this will beg for it).
I take no position on the merit of Lox's posts, but I will say that they're more entertaining than yours.
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lox
Feb 3, 2003, 7:57 PM
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v4+ !!!11
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vertical_reality
Feb 3, 2003, 7:59 PM
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Flame war results:
vertical reality - 0
tim - 1
lox - 567
I see your point Tim, we just have different views.
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boulderingmadman
Feb 3, 2003, 8:08 PM
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ok...let me break it down for all of you who still dont get it...
IF lamiche, sharma, graham, roth, etal, were here on the forum discussing what THEY thought the grade of the Mandala was, this conversation would NOT be happening.
what IS happening, is a bunch of people who have done NOTHING more than reading about a problem are posting an unfounded opinion on what THEY think the problem is.
as tim pointed out, any of us can read about the problem. this doesnt mean we know what the problem is graded.
how can you post a personal opinion about somehting in which you have no personal experience?
all you are doing is re-phrasing somone else's opinion. though this fits in with the "follow-the leader" opinions expressed so commonly on this forum, it doesnt mean you are right, accurate, or even influential in the discussion.
ask me about shaft, or the big chicken, or strength in numbers, or any of the numerous problems i have been on, and finished, and i can give you my opinion of what i think its difficulty is. ask me about a problem ive never climbed, and i can ONLY tell you what someone else thinks its difficulty is.
yea, and were the ones who are thick...you cannot have an opinion on something you know nothing about!! its easy to have someone else opinion...
v4+
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madriver
Feb 3, 2003, 8:51 PM
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Where is GAWD when you need him....? Lox ...step it up..the flame is dying!!
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mikefreeman
Feb 3, 2003, 9:01 PM
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i'm with LOX
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monkeyarm
Feb 3, 2003, 9:46 PM
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boulderingmadman your wrong.
One can hold an opinion based on information provided without having actually had the original experiance.
Go read a medical or psychological journal sometime they are refered to as lit reviews
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lox
Feb 3, 2003, 10:20 PM
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Jeeze, kids, check it out.
First of all, it's a matter of authority. It is perfectly fine to discuss or even argue grades, based on what other people have said.
Where the line gets crossed that upsets some people is the AUTHORITY with which some peeps feel comfortable making claims.
If you haven't climbed the certain route, all you can do is qualify your statement and give a range... like this: "Based on what I have heard from those who have done it, is that the Mandala is v11/12 depending on the sequence and/or factoring in the broken hold. The sitstart has been done and it appears to be hard enough to warrant another v grade."
This will never be enough for some people, but since it adequately defines what you think about the grade and why, then it MUST BE ACCEPTED as your OPINION.
It is when this opinion is stated as fact (EVEN BY THOSE WHO HAVE CLIMBED IT) that people get upset.
Grades are subjective and the "you haven't clibed it" camp is right when they say that nothing good can come of arguing 11 v. 12 when no one arguing could even tell the difference...
To one side of the debate: be clear and concise and if someone doens't like your opinion, tell them to kindly go eff themself. You will use thier input in your opinion AFTER they climb the route.
To the other side: jumping down people's throat for expressing their opinion is uncool Jumping down people's throat for expressing their opinion as fact ROCKS.
just cut peeps some slack and realize that in their head they WILL assign a grade to the problem based on what they have heard... its natural and we all do it.
AAAAAAAAAHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!@@!@!!@!!@#!@$#!@$124
GRADES EFFIN BLOW !!!111
v4+ !
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shank
Feb 3, 2003, 11:03 PM
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I thought it was common knowledge that grades were all opinion anyway. Even comeing from the FAist or anyone else that has climbed it. Therefor anyone that says this climb it rated whatever is stating someone opinion,whether it be their's or someone else, or is completely lying about it. either which way,unless you just climb so you can say I climb V69 to brag, who care what it is rated now, or ever even if I do climb it I still don't care and neither should you.
Just my 2 Lincolns
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tim
Feb 3, 2003, 11:07 PM
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This whole exchange illustrates perfectly why the B scale was better. Either a problem is doable, standards-pushing, or unrepeated. Mathematically rigorous, clearly delineated, and free of spray.
Naturally, it had to be replaced with something that was sponsor-friendly...
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lox
Feb 4, 2003, 12:12 AM
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v4+
IPS4LYFE.
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lilred
Feb 4, 2003, 1:16 AM
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hehehe...this thread is fuuuuuny!
~giggle~
i'm with Lox. Who the %@#$ cares about ratings...
Ratings shratings!
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madriver
Feb 4, 2003, 3:36 AM
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Thank YOU LOX...!!! It was getting boring in there...!!11!! Whatever the 1 means!!
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rockfax
Feb 4, 2003, 3:38 AM
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Well...lots of people care about ratings.
Yes they do influence who gets sponsored.
But most importantly they can give you a sense of achievement.
If you climb something that is recognised by your peers as say V7 and it is your first V7 you are quite right to be proud about your achievement.
Not only do you hopefully enjoy the physical and mental experience of climbing something at your limit...but you have a number attached to that experience which tells you that you have achieved a certain level in climbing.
This is the same for Chris Sharma, Fred Nicole, all of us.
But first and foremost it is the experience that counts not the number pegged on to it.
Mick
www.rockfax.com
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lox
Feb 4, 2003, 4:14 AM
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Unless that number is...
v4+ !!!!!!!11
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rockfax
Feb 4, 2003, 4:32 AM
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Just like my jokes...your's are old and ugly....but you still make me laugh and thanks for that Mr. Texas Is Best.
Anyways. As there is no device to measure a climbs difficulty or impartial judges to sat that a challenge has been fairly completed....unlike most other sports, climbing has an appeal like no other sport.
I think that is one of climbings main attractions...no stop watch, no officials, no written rule book. It does leave it open to a little abuse and dishonesty at the higher levels and it is wise to be aware of that. But that doesn't affect the experience of the majority....even V4+ chuffers...eh Loxy.
So let the never ending rating discusion, that began many years ago, continue.
Mick
www.rockfax.com
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crux_clipper
Feb 4, 2003, 5:53 AM
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Ok, this is it for me...i'm never posting in this topic again, but let me clear a few things up....
Firstly, i never made it my intention to add my opinion on the grade of the problem, let alone put forward the idea that i have even climed it. I was simply replying to an inquiry to what its graded now..."Hey, did everyone know that.....?" "yes, i have read it on the net that its V??, or just bloody hard"
Secondly boulderingmadman, how can you grade it V4+? This obviously means that you've sent it, and found it incredibly easy compared to the likes of sharma and graham. yet you did just say before that it was out of the reahc of the likes of you and me....I've bouldered up to V6, so maybe i should come over and give it a shot if you consider it V4+
Thirdly...i will do it one day. Maybe no time soon, but one day i will be bouldering those grades, and when i do, i'll send ya a photo
Peace out!
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lox
Feb 4, 2003, 4:17 PM
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Crux... you don't climb v4+ on the ice pond scale... lol.
You barely climb v2+ !
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crackwhore
Feb 4, 2003, 4:23 PM
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B2+
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crackwhore
Feb 4, 2003, 4:34 PM
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" V4+ "
has the A. Hole actually climbed the Mandala?
methinks no...
cuz Lox only likes to go sideways.
he's starting a new website called traversing.com.
it features other Lone Star guzzlin', sideways climbin' rednecks like him doin upside down laps on manufactured chosspiles in mosquito infested riverbeds.
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lox
Feb 4, 2003, 4:43 PM
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Dude.
The ice pond scale is designed to alleviate all this BS that you are trying to mire me in by asking "has the Lox climbed the Mandala"...
The point of the ice pond scale is that things are either very hard, hard, moderate, easy or incredibly easy.
If you look at the problem versus the scale, it is easy to see that the problem is v4+.
Kinda like on the b scale... if it's b1, that's the rating... even though only 1 person has climbed the route.
And I don't understand what the animosity is all about... v2+ is GOOD, BRAH. Keep working and maybe you can climb on some v4s with me someday...
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bighigaz
Feb 4, 2003, 5:06 PM
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Who CARES!!!! Chris Sharma can say whatever he wants, but most or all of us don't have the right to do anything but gauk at the videos and wish we had the kind of superhuman abilities he has... I think I'll go put up a new route this week... maybe a a hideous 5.7 or something... gee, I hope that rating holds up 'cause I really don't care about anything else... and I'll be happy as long as everyone who watches my video agrees with me. SHEESH!
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boulderingmadman
Feb 4, 2003, 5:35 PM
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ice pond scale, crux_clipper. lox exposed me to it, and i love it. NOTHING is harder than v4+...its as hard as it gets.
listen, im not trying to piss anyone off, or get your panties all bunched up.
i dont care about discussing opinions or whatever. just dont post it as a fact. its not a fact, it never will be a fact (mick if you grade it in the guidebook, ill hunt you donw and kill you...unless its v4+ )...
lemurboy would have been better off saying "i heard the sit start added a whole grade to. WOW!~!! thats %@#$ing hard!!!" instead of [whiny lil brat voice]"sharmas beta was way harder. graham found an easier way up, so sharmas beta was ahrder. now the ss went and its a v13....blablabla"[/whiny lil brat voice]
its all in the attitude expressed, and you guys havent even SEEN the problem in real life.
crux_clipper, i assumed you were one of the "we" who have sent it that you talked about...there that authority on the problem again.
if all you lil girls and boys wanna pretend you know what youre talking about...have fun. someday maybe youll come to bishop (for real, not in a movie...) and actually LOOK at the problem. than youll appreciate for what it IS, not what someone else said its difficulty rating was...
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lox
Feb 4, 2003, 5:48 PM
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v4+
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rockfax
Feb 4, 2003, 6:03 PM
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Texas Boy wrote:
"The point of the ice pond scale is that things are either very hard, hard, moderate, easy or incredibly easy. "
So you are rating things.
Your rating scale verbal rating system is exactly the same as the numerical one...just less precise and more fuzzy. Which is fine.
It originated in the UK 40 years ago, then it evolved into a numerical one.
ice pond scale
incredibly easy = VB to V0
easy = V0+ to V2
moderate = V3 to V5
hard = V6 to V9
very hard = V10 and harder
There's no escaping it Texas Boy. You ARE a rating whore despite all your posturing and posing.
best regards,
Mick
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lox
Feb 4, 2003, 7:57 PM
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I never said I was anti-rating...
I said that the v-scale is more aptly suited to arguing and bull$#!& sessions.
So, yeah... if you think that my climbing a problem and then running back down and having someone ask me "How hard was that ?!?!?" and my reply "Moderately hard" MAKES me a "ratings whore" then you are entitled to your opinion.
It would be about as well thought out as most of what you spew.
Personally... I think that term applies better to people who cannot exist outside the v-scale on any level and who cannot acknowledge there MIGHT be a better way to do things.
These are the people you write guidebooks for.
And you are so mired in the game that you can't even pull your head out long enough to NOT RATE THE IP SCALE WITHOUT V-RATINGS.
I find your trite attempt to insult me lame.
I find your misrepresentation of my worldview condescending.
And I find the fact that you don't know any better by now to be indicative of the lack of intelligence I always suspected you had.
No wonder your guidebooks suck so much and people are so mininformed.
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rockfax
Feb 4, 2003, 9:02 PM
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Sharma likes to climb "hard problems" which get a high number attached (V4+ prolly)....because it focuses his mind, whereas easier climbing doesn't.
This he has said.
Mick
www.rockfax.com
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lox
Feb 4, 2003, 9:12 PM
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See... I am on the same scale as sharm...
I just choose to use the IPS to do so because it challenges people to realize these numbers are arbitrary and really the only absolute scale that exists is kinda vague and internalized differently in each individual.
v4+
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mreardon
Feb 4, 2003, 10:02 PM
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I have never laughed so hard! My thanks to Mick, Lox, Bmadman and the rest for making my day! I'm a ratings whore (admitting is the first step to recovery) when it comes to roped routes, but bouldering always went in the past with two ratings; "I did it", "I did not do it". But lately we've been going with "easy" (up to V3), "moderate" (V4-V7), "hard" (V8-V11), and "What the F#%k?" (V12+). I think "mandala" fits the "what the?" rating. I was at the 'milks last weekend and after onsighting a couple moderates and taking a two windmill fall from the jugs on "high plains drifter" ("no one falls from there" stated the spotters....), we decided to check out "mandala." Matching on the upper holds of "soul slinger" ("Hard" or V9/V10 for those who care) was easier than those opening moves.
I can't rate worth a damn, but I have to disagree with Lox, I think it's V5+
[ This Message was edited by: mreardon on 2003-02-04 14:09 ]
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boulderingmadman
Feb 4, 2003, 10:08 PM
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there is no v5+:
v0-v2=v0
v3-v4=v2
v5-v7=v2+
v8-v?=v4+
its easier this way
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tim
Feb 4, 2003, 10:08 PM
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it would be easier still if you called it ip4+ but then a lot of the fun would go away
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boulderingmadman
Feb 4, 2003, 10:20 PM
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its just recognizing the vagueness of any grading system, and incorporating that vaguness into the system itself.
every problem is different for every climber. at least with the IPS, you can be pretty assured of where you climb...
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lilred
Feb 4, 2003, 10:32 PM
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There is no spoon...
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rockfax
Feb 5, 2003, 3:29 AM
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Try again Texas Boy. I bouldered for 15 years without any bouldering rating scale.
Trust the Yanks to implement one. That %@#$in Sherman....I should have poisoned him after that session at Almscliff, Yorkshire, when he led on my couch in 1986.
Nice post Loxy....you're learning....but still have a long long way to go.....
Mick
www.rockfax.com
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lox
Feb 5, 2003, 7:51 AM
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From Rockfax:
Quote:It originated in the UK 40 years ago, then it evolved into a numerical one.
Quote:Try again Texas Boy. I bouldered for 15 years without any bouldering rating scale.
Trust the Yanks to implement one.
From Lox:
Quote:v4+
YOU LOSE.
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boulderingmadman
Feb 5, 2003, 7:53 AM
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oops...looks as though you may 'ave stepped in your own $#!&e...
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v10gripper
Feb 5, 2003, 8:42 AM
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have i told you all that i like juice, cuz i do i really do, and crackers, maybe a bit of cheese. grades grades spew grades, ummmmmm yeah you are all wrong! i started this thread in the bios section and some tard moved it here. yall need to calm down, lox i wanna climb in texas.
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crackwhore
Feb 5, 2003, 5:22 PM
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i think the mosquitos make boulder problems harder and we should institute a new rating system for particularly infested routes ( of which the Mandala would rate very low, except in the early summer ).
on the other hand i'm sure Loxy knows of many highly rated problems on this new scale...
we can call it the I scale ( for infested )
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boulderingmadman
Feb 5, 2003, 7:34 PM
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yea, but gnats make climbing even harder. just as annoying as mosquitos, and small enough to fit in your ears...
the mandala has loads of gnats. it must be IG16v4+...
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lox
Feb 5, 2003, 8:33 PM
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v4+
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mreardon
Feb 6, 2003, 7:33 PM
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"V0, V2, V2+, V4+". What happened to 0, 0+, 1, 1+, 2, 2+, 3, 3+, 4, 4+, or even 0, 1, 2, 3, 4.... - Or are those too difficult to comprehend (momma should get a rebate on your school programs)?
Oh wait, the new authorities are malaria-driven Texassans and a madman in Bishop (where the people outnumber the teeth ).
Power to the flame!!!! Oh yeah, and V5+
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tim
Feb 6, 2003, 7:38 PM
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Okay, this one has run it's course. All in favor of a move to Community (the better to continue the flamewar), please say 'aye'.
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jhwnewengland
Feb 6, 2003, 7:42 PM
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aye
I'm sick of seeing this on the front page.
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mreardon
Feb 6, 2003, 7:46 PM
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Aye! It's about time!
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cloudbreak
Feb 6, 2003, 7:49 PM
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Lox and Boulderingmadman ROCK!!!!
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lox
Feb 6, 2003, 7:57 PM
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Odd numbers are too odd.
Plus grades rock.
v4+
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camhead
Feb 6, 2003, 8:04 PM
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damn. I can't believe that I just read this whole thread.
Just a thought on the v4+ thang... I'm pretty new to bouldering, but v4+ is roughly equivalent to an .11d sport rating.
As any sporto will tell you, .11d is MUCH harder than .12a. It is (and should be) one of the most feared grades out there. How many of ya'll have been whooped by the .11d "warmup" that you do in preparation to sending your project? Similar to the much feared trad rating of .9+.
Anyway, yeah. Fear the 11d. Fear the v4+.
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lox
Feb 6, 2003, 8:08 PM
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PH33R the IC3 P0ND SCAL3.
L337!!!!!!1111
v4+
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boulderingmadman
Feb 7, 2003, 7:38 AM
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yea, but rrradam...i went to the "best climbing in socal" gym you recommended to me...and uhh...hehehe...i dont even wanna tell you.
lets just say that things were a bit softer than i expected in a gym, ...(onsight tracking of youre "v5" as a warmup should not be done by myself...i aint that strong... )
so much for youre v5+...
IPS...youre new best friend.
[ This Message was edited by: boulderingmadman on 2003-02-06 23:39 ]
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phil_nev
Feb 7, 2003, 12:03 PM
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I cant belive you dicks are still on about this.
Boulderingmadman, get over it, who cares, you have your opinion, let others have thirs, leave it at that.
Lox, ur just as bad.
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cass
Feb 7, 2003, 12:37 PM
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v4+
heheh
[ This Message was edited by: cass on 2003-02-07 04:38 ]
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boulderingmadman
Feb 7, 2003, 8:25 PM
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phil_nev--what the %@#$ is youre problem??
were having fun...it amuses me, it amuses lox, and it is apparrently amusing many other people along the way.
so i guess you are the one that needs to get over it. youre just pissed cause you got shut-up on the first page...
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lox
Feb 7, 2003, 8:31 PM
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OOOOOoooooh...
v4+
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collegekid
Feb 7, 2003, 9:02 PM
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B2+
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xanx
Feb 7, 2003, 9:26 PM
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1) lox, i think we all know what you think
2) CAN IT ALREADY EVERYONE!! HOW CAN THIS POSSIBLE HAVE GONE ON FOR SEVEN (7) PAGES?!?!
my God just end it! Christ grades don't matter. call it a v0 if you want, or a v100 if it pleases you. just shut up, i am sick of seeing this on the recent messages board!
you are all acting like little kids!
mike
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lox
Feb 7, 2003, 9:34 PM
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v4+!
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gawd
Feb 7, 2003, 9:43 PM
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v4++
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climblouisiana
Feb 7, 2003, 9:54 PM
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V11/12 = V0.9167
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lancebrock
Feb 7, 2003, 10:25 PM
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V4c. maybe d.
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climbjs
Feb 7, 2003, 11:06 PM
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so?
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ponyryan
Feb 7, 2003, 11:28 PM
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I don't think this thread is going to amount to anything except bickering so I'm gonna call an end to it. Try to keep it clean also, this is a public site still so keep that in mind when you choose your words and remember that we're all climbers, don't hate.
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cass
Feb 7, 2003, 11:28 PM
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V4+ V4+ V4+ V4+
V4+ V4+ V4+ V4+
V4+ V4+ V4+ V4+
V4+ V4+ V4+ V4+
V4+ V4+ V4+ V4+
V4+ V4+ V4+ V4+
V4+ V4+ V4+ V4+
heheh lol
[ This Message was edited by: Lox on 2003-02-09 12:18 ]
[ This Message was edited by: cass on 2003-02-09 14:31 ]
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mandala is rated v11/12
