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dukeclimber
Apr 29, 2004, 5:19 AM
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Right now there is a vote at ESPN.com on the greatest female athlete alive. Lynn Hill is at the bottom of the bracket. Go to Page Two of the website and click on her name and vote for her. It'd be great to see a climber get the recognition they deserve as an all around athlete. It's really too bad they don't have a climber in the men's bracket.
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andy_lemon
Apr 29, 2004, 5:31 AM
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Nice find...
http://msn.espn.go.com/
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bozemaniac
Apr 29, 2004, 5:41 AM
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Here it is:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=degree/female/athlete/2004
Bottom bracket. Click on her name. Then click to vote.
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sandbag
Apr 29, 2004, 5:45 AM
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Sorry, i cant in good conscience even think Lynn is the greatest woman athlete alive, because arent there any old olympians and other athletes that have been around for while that broke down racial barriers and social stigmas? Ill agree with that fiel they are presenting shes a cool candidate for that ranking but definitely not just overall...... :?
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climbsomething
Apr 29, 2004, 5:50 AM
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Sweeeeet.
But I'm skeptical. It's hard to relate to climbing if you're not a climber. As a non-swimmer, I can still appreciate 16 world records and swimming 100m in less than a minute. But before I climbed, I had no idea what The Nose was, much less the significance of doing it "free" and "in a day."
Couldn't they have matched Lynn up against a golfer? :P
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kalcario
Apr 29, 2004, 5:55 AM
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From their website:
"In 1994, she climbed the Nose in 23 hours, a speed record that hasn't been broken. And she's still one of the best climbers in the world -- male or female -- at age 43."
More accurately:
"In 1994, she free climbed the Nose in one day, a feat that has not been repeated 10 years later by anyone, let alone in a day. She was also the best American rock climber of the 90's - male or female."
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dukeclimber
Apr 29, 2004, 5:56 AM
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I don't know how anyone can have a problem voting for Lynn Hill as the greatest female athlete, at least of those in the bracket. How many other of those women have done something that no one else (man or woman) can do? Also, if I recall the stories correctly, Lynn also had some weight lifting records and was a top track athlete. She's been good at everything.
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scuclimber
Apr 29, 2004, 5:58 AM
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I'm glad she's not in the same bracket as Marion Jones. I've run a hell of a lot more than I've climbed and Marion is yeah... very fast. Maybe pound for pound the best athlete on the planet (no, I really don't have the time or the inclination to debate this).
Colin
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andy_lemon
Apr 29, 2004, 6:02 AM
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So how do you vote? :?
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sdwoods
Apr 29, 2004, 6:05 AM
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Was she not also the first woman to climb 5.14?
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climbsomething
Apr 29, 2004, 6:13 AM
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In reply to: Was she not also the first woman to climb 5.14?
Like the first-timers at the gym say... "what do these numbers on the tape mean? Is that good?"
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epic_ed
Apr 29, 2004, 6:20 AM
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In reply to: Sorry, i cant in good conscience even think Lynn is the greatest woman athlete alive, because arent there any old olympians and other athletes that have been...snip... definitely not just overall...... :?
Sicne this is a "bracket" match up, you only need to vote if she is the better overall athlete beteween Lynn and whoever she is matched up against in that round. In this case, a swimmer. Voting is close in this first round, but more surprisingly to me is how many people have vote in the Hill/Coughlin bracket -- over 33,000!
Ed
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lambchop
Apr 29, 2004, 10:51 AM
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In reply to: Yeah. But again, does that make sense to anybody but climbers?
In a perfect world I guess we would all make informed, intelligent judgements :)
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cliffmonkey2003
Apr 29, 2004, 11:38 AM
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Maybe noone else knows the significance of her accomplishments, but as climbers, we have a responsibility to let the world know how great her feats really are. Most of us know at least something about the other athletics that Hill is up against, but we also know about climbing. This knowledge possibly makes us the most informed group of all the athletes and the group with the biggest obligation to vote, IMHO. We know what we're voting for. All I'm saying is that we are the voters that can put it all in perspective.
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ninjaslut
Apr 29, 2004, 11:51 AM
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In reply to: Sorry, i cant in good conscience even think Lynn is the greatest woman athlete alive, because arent there any old olympians and other athletes that have been around for while that broke down racial barriers and social stigmas? Ill agree with that fiel they are presenting shes a cool candidate for that ranking but definitely not just overall...... :?
So Jackie Robinson is a better athlete than Michael Jordan?
What the hell does racial or gender progress have to do with judging a person's athleticism? The question at hand only relates to the entrant's physical prowess and training-not your social politics. I've got to admit I don't understand where people get these fantasized attacks of conscience. What if I refused to vote for any athlete that doesn't have a good singing voice? Would that be any less relevant?
If you read the article, I think you'll find that the contest suggests that people focus more on the physical accomplishments of these women, rather than their image. They specifically mention Anna Kournikova as an example of a female athlete given an unbalanced amount of attention for something other than how she plays. Would you ever say that the fact that Anna K. is cute makes her a better athlete? Equally, how can you relate any social attributes--however impressive--to a contest attempting to rate someone’s physical power, agility, and stamina?
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ninjaslut
Apr 29, 2004, 12:16 PM
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If you want to discuss who the best athlete is, you probably have to at least weight that discussion with a consideration of the difficulty of the sport. And in terms of athleticism, I'd have to give a little deference to swimming over rock climbing, at least if we're starting from a basis of being the best in the world for a period of time. Consider, about 1 million people on the planet are rock climbers. How many swimmers are there? 20 million? 80 million? Setting a world record in a sport tens of millions of people have been trying for over a century seems like more of an accomplishment than setting a world record in climbing, a sport which has only recently been practiced by 1 million, and has only been taken seriously on its own since the 50's or 60's.
Further increasing the difficulty of success in swimming is the competition-timing factor. Swimmers don't get to count their best practice lap ever; they have to be their best on the certain day when a competition happens. In the case of the Olympics, if they have a bad day during that competition, they're back to being no one for 4 years. I'm too new at climbing to know this, but Lynn Hill probably planned her ascent, trained for it on her own schedule and did it when she was ready, and we still counted it. Did she never try it and fail? Do you think it would have gone as well if some agency demanded she do it on May 2nd, 1994 for instance, rather than whenever she felt good about it? (I wasn’t a climber back then, so I hope I’ve guessed the details of the accomplishment well.)
I don't mean to disparage Lynn Hill, she's an astounding athlete. She's done something that I never think I'll be skilled enough to even consider, and it ought to be recognized, but I can’t assume it beats what that swimmer has accomplished in her life—at least not just because I like Lynn’s sport better.
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cantbuymefriends
Apr 29, 2004, 12:45 PM
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Wasn't there some kind of invitation multisport event(s) back in late 80's - early 90's, where Lynn Hill competed against top athletes in other disciplines and usually won? I think that would make her an outtanding all-round athlete, and NOT "just a climber"!
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mike_ok
Apr 29, 2004, 12:49 PM
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ninjaslut: in one sense I agree with you. The demands of an olympic athelete are different from that of the "professional" climber who plans their assent.
That being said, Hill's accomplishment ranks her as first class in the world because she has accomplished something that NO ONE, male or female, has accomplished since. In most sports, women compete at a lower level than their male counterparts. Yet here we have an example of a woman who doesn't need to compete in "women's swimming" or "women's track." Freeing the Nose is a huge accomplishment, and in my opinion is recognizable to a non-climber as well (with a bit of explanation). Non-climber after explanation: "She climbed how many feet? And no one had ever done it before? And no one has done it since? Dang I thought all rock climbers were super-human to begin with... this girl is uber-climber."
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j_ung
Apr 29, 2004, 1:13 PM
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I wonder how Hill feels about her inclusion in this contest.
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dredsovrn
Apr 29, 2004, 1:45 PM
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Get in there and vote. Lynn is currently trailing by .5%.
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rhu
Apr 29, 2004, 1:53 PM
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In reply to: athletes that have been around for while that broke down racial barriers and social stigmas?
What does that have to do with being an athlete? Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
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photon
Apr 29, 2004, 2:09 PM
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Why'd they have to put her up against the only other person I would have voted for? Swimming, while being the best organized sport doesn't really cross over to other sports that well. Natalie's one hell of an athlete ( I read while standing she can put her elbows on the ground! Sheesh!) and I hope she wins several gold medals this summer. I thought about it for a second though and considering Lynn's gymnastics, track, tough "girl" brawls etc, and of course her all around climbing accomplishments, I went with her. I think if all the athletes in the group had some kind of cross sport challenge with both adventure and mainstream sports Lynn would be very hard to beat.
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ninjaslut
Apr 29, 2004, 2:25 PM
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Mike, if you had the chops to be a world class sprinter and a world class climber, which one do you think you'd pick to take most seriously? There's big endorsements, big recognition, and a chance for Olympic glory in the mainstream track sport. In climbing, there's about 10,000 people who might show up to watch you depending on where you climb, and will say "nice" when you send a hard problem or "you ok?" when you crash. But, let's face it, the global recognition our sport has to offer just can't compete with almost anything you'd see in the NBA, MLB, NFL or at the Olympics (curling notwithstanding). The point is that if a great athlete can be great at anything, chances are a great athlete would go with a bigger sport, either because the glory/money is better, or because he tried it at school and just found out about it earlier. Those great athletes that decide to give up the rewards of bigger sports for a love of climbing are quite impressive to me, but they must be a tiny minority.
Ok, Mike, we both agree that freeing the Nose is a huge accomplishment, and that it was done by only one female and has not yet been matched by anyone else of either gender is also quite impressive. But I suggest that all accomplishments in sports are judged relative to the performance of everyone else in the field. As rock climbing is a young sport, and still probably considered something of a "fringe" pastime, I can't assume it draws the best athletes, even at the top of the game. So, to judge any accomplishment in climbing, one has to consider that he is comparing the accomplishment to a greatly diminished talent pool. Lynn is competing against about 1 million people. Even though those people are of both genders, how is that more impressive than being measurably better than the 200 million women who have tried the sport over the last century?
If climbing drew talent like the NBA does, (and maybe it will in 40 years) we might be thinking that no one is a world class climber unless they beat Hill's record. Think of how much has changed since the sixties. Wasn't 5.11 impossible not too long ago?
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ninjaslut
Apr 29, 2004, 2:44 PM
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What is with this interdisciplinary consideration? If you ask me, a huge part of being an athlete is not just acquired skill; it's a process of changing one's own body to make it a better tool for performing at the sport you chose, and often, that process, when successful, makes the body a worse tool for opposing disciplines. If I train to deadlift 500 pounds, I'm a good weightlifter and a good athlete...but I'm probably going to suck at triathlons. If I've conditioned myself to run a marathon in 2:40, chances are I'd better keep my ass out of sumo wrestling, but I'm not a bad athlete.
If you don’t buy that argument, I say they all just box for it. Boxing has got to be the most athletically intense sport anywhere. There’s no easy way to do it; in many cases, you can’t even effectively practice alone without injuring yourself. It’s not like you can go for a nice easy swim, or climb 5.4 until you’re comfortable. In boxing, if you don’t pay attention, you’ll probably break a wrist on your first day! Hitting a heavy bag with any power for 30 minutes almost knocks me out, and bags don’t swing back; I can’t image how hard it must be while some human jackhammer is beating the crap out of you! Again, I say they all box for it: last woman standing is the athlete of the century, and if one of them is a professional boxer already, I don’t know…make her also knit a sweater in the first round.
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reno
Apr 29, 2004, 2:54 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: athletes that have been around for while that broke down racial barriers and social stigmas? What does that have to do with being an athlete? Why are you trying to confuse the issue?
Because the best athletes are often "forced" by the masses to become spokespersons for one thing or another. And such "demands" are often a burden, causing one to be stretched so thin, athletic prowress becomes a "secondary" concern.
Jesse Owens, in the Berlin Olympics, won 4 events, but he's MOST remembered for his defiant stance when looking at A.H. He basically said "I am a man first, a black man second, and an athlete third." (Forgive me if I'm not PC enough... it's never been my strong suit.)
Athletes are looked to as role models. The measure of a person is how well they carry that burden. Consider: Charles Barkley. By any standard, he was a heck of an athlete. Strong, fast, explosive, quick, and skilled. Yet he was the subject of much disdain for his comments: "I am not a role model." (The correctness of this statement isn't the issue... the public's reaction to the statement is the issue.) The masses in general viewed Barkely as a lesser-quality "athlete" than other NBA players (many of whom were lesser skilled,) who accepted the role model title.
So, yes... someone's position, stance, and actions OUTSIDE of their sport are a large part of that person's ranking as an athlete. Such is the price we pay for placing sport in a position of admiration.
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ninjaslut
Apr 29, 2004, 3:17 PM
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In reply to: So, yes... someone's position, stance, and actions OUTSIDE of their sport are a large part of that person's ranking as an athlete. Such is the price we pay for placing sport in a position of admiration.
No, what you're talking about is an ancillary burden placed on many althetes. The actions you refer to are those that contribute one's ranking as a statesman, a role model, or a humanitarian. That many people expect athletes to also pay service to these concepts does not change the meaning of the word "athlete", i.e. "a person who is trained or skilled in exercises, sports, or games requiring physical strength, agility, or stamina" (Merriam-Webster). Words have definitions for just this reason, so they can be used with precision and are defensible as such, regardless of the prejudices or romantic notions of their audience. The question is "Who is the best athlete?" not "Who is the best athlete/social activist?" nor "Who is the most impressive woman to be known as an athlete?"
When someone asks you who the greatest athlete is, "Gandhi" is not a valid response, even though it took physical strength and stamina to achieve his great humanitarian accomplishments. That would be a totally different question.
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reno
Apr 29, 2004, 3:27 PM
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In reply to: That many people expect athletes to also pay service to these concepts does not change the meaning of the word "athlete", i.e. "a person who is trained or skilled in exercises, sports, or games requiring physical strength, agility, or stamina" (Merriam-Webster). Words have definitions for just this reason, so they can be used with precision and are defensible as such, regardless of the prejudices or romantic notions of their audience.
The textbook definition notwithstanding, the contextual and generally accepted use of the word is a factor. The public, right or wrong, includes social responsibility as a measure of one's ranking when discussing who is the "Best Athlete."
By your logic, we can safely state that Adolf Hitler was the world's best Politician. He garnered the support of the majority of the population in Germany, got people to buy into his political ideology, and rose to a position of immeasurable influence. The fact that he was a despisable person shouldn't matter, should it?
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bandycoot
Apr 29, 2004, 3:29 PM
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Hill is paired against a HOCKEY player. Goddamnit, that's not the olympics, and I'm pretty sure that she's a better athlete... GO VOTE!
:D
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photon
Apr 29, 2004, 3:32 PM
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the reason for interdiscipline consideration is because the competition is about who is the best all around athlete, Not who is the best athlete in the most recognized sport. Athletics is not just physical, it is also about mental abilities as well. The ability to be good at something you haven't trained for would be a pretty good litmus test for how well physically and mentally flexible the given athlete is. It also levels the playing field as it doesn't put marathoners up against sumo wrestlers (which proves nothing). There is a reason why athletes from many disciplines were selected not just the most popular ones. I maintain that a cross discipline event which must include many different disciplines is the only way to really find out who the best athlete in the bunch really is. Sumo wrestlers would loose because they are way to "well rounded" and not well rounded athletes. Lynn would really do well because of her versatility, toughness and wide background in many sports. The crux of this matter would be determing which events to use as the litmus test to not favor one athlete more than the next.
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yanqui
Apr 29, 2004, 3:38 PM
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Would it be unethical to cast multiple votes?
Maybe I'll spend all afternoon voting for Lynn Hill.
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dingus
Apr 29, 2004, 3:39 PM
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Why? Who is Lynn Hill to me? And why should I care what the rest of the world thinks about her.
DMT
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missedyno
Apr 29, 2004, 3:44 PM
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hmm.
She's up against a swimmer? when i clicked and voted she was up against a hockey player.
or was that a swimmer in hockey gear?
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crazyscuba
Apr 29, 2004, 3:46 PM
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she was against a swimmer in the first round, hockey in the second.
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ninjaslut
Apr 29, 2004, 3:47 PM
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In reply to: By your logic, we can safely state that Adolf Hitler was the world's best Politician. He garnered the support of the majority of the population in Germany, got people to buy into his political ideology, and rose to a position of immeasurable influence. The fact that he was a despisable person shouldn't matter, should it? |
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jajohnst
Apr 29, 2004, 3:53 PM
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Thanks for bringing this up, Lynn gets my vote.
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cliffmonkey2003
Apr 29, 2004, 4:11 PM
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In reply to: That many people expect athletes to also pay service to these concepts does not change the meaning of the word "athlete", i.e. "a person who is trained or skilled in exercises, sports, or games requiring physical strength, agility, or stamina" (Merriam-Webster). Words have definitions for just this reason, so they can be used with precision and are defensible as such, regardless of the prejudices or romantic notions of their audience.
I hope I never stand trial in the U.S. Supreme Court with Supreme Court Justice Ninjaslut on the bench. :shock:
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mheyman
Apr 29, 2004, 5:03 PM
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In reply to: as climbers, we have a responsibility to let the world know how great her feats really are.
You're kidding, right!
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ninjaslut
Apr 29, 2004, 5:08 PM
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In reply to: the reason for interdiscipline consideration is because the competition is about who is the best all around athlete.
No it isn't; it's about the best female athlete. You're the one who introduced the term "all around". Just like those people who require an athlete to be Martin Luther King Abdul Jabar, you're just making up a dimension of the competition that interests you, not one implicitly provided by the competition's introduction.
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ninjaslut
Apr 29, 2004, 5:14 PM
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In reply to: I hope I never stand trial in the U.S. Supreme Court with Supreme Court Justice Ninjaslut on the bench. :shock:
Why? Is that because of a general disrespect for the law, or just the language it is based on? Are you, by any chance, a member of the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court?
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largebarge
Apr 29, 2004, 5:16 PM
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Just go vote! As amazing a player as Hayley is, she is an upstart compared to Lynn Hill. Are you going to let the sporting world think hockey players are better athletes than climbers? Go vote, and try to have fun doing it!
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superdiamonddave
Apr 29, 2004, 5:17 PM
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Yup, she just got my vote. I have to honor the woman that's pinned to my wall...her poster that is. 8^)
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photon
Apr 29, 2004, 5:25 PM
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The reason I said best all around athlete is because to me that is really the heart of the matter, when comparing hockey players to climbers etc...
I've mentioned a somewhat "fair" way to determine who the best athlete would be. By your reasoning a single sport should be chosen to determine this, boxing. Well, add a few boxers to the list and there goes your theory. This wouldn't prove anything just that a boxer could beat non-boxers. Fill in the blank with any other sport and any of the athletes could whoop the other athletes at their chosen sport. Have you heard of the decathlon? The winner is often mentioned as the "world's greatest athlete" (even though they should add/subtract some of the events to make it more inclusive of the sporting spectrum). Why do you think that is? The political/philosophical values of the athlete obviously have nothing to do with who the best athlete is and I don't see how determining a somewhat objective way to determine the outcome relates to this at all.
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sticky_fingers
Apr 29, 2004, 5:29 PM
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In reply to: Couldn't they have matched Lynn up against a golfer? :P
You mean like Hill vs. Horst? :D
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ninjaslut
Apr 29, 2004, 5:43 PM
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Ok, Photon. I admit I made this hard to distinguish. I was kidding about the boxing thing. I thought the suggestion "have them knit a sweater" was flippant enough to disqualify the whole paragraph. Guess not.
Nonetheless, I do think there is validity to the agrument that part of athleticism is conditioning oneself for a particular sport, and this, if done well, can make one worse at other sport. Therefore, taking an althete out of their specialty and testing them in some other discipline doesn't prove anything about their athletic accomplishments. Their skill and dedication has been spent making them better at a specific act, not just general fitness.
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andy_lemon
Apr 29, 2004, 5:44 PM
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I can't believe Ali's daughter isn't on there... :?
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climbsomething
May 4, 2004, 7:53 AM
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Sweet, Lynn made it to round 3! She's up against a triathlete now, looks like a formidable opponent. Vote vote!
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curt
May 4, 2004, 8:10 AM
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I think many people posting here are failing to recognize the full extent of Lynn Hill's accomplishments. Sure, other sports like swimming have far more participants--so a world record holder in swimming may seem to have accomplished more than Lynn, at first glance.
However, world records in swimming are routinely broken by mere thousandths of a second--whereas Lynn's feat of free climbing the Nose may not be repeated for generations.
Curt
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scclimber
May 4, 2004, 8:18 AM
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well put curt.
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kathy
May 4, 2004, 8:33 AM
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when you consider political/ social impact - you must consider that she excelled in a sport where women were (sometimes still are) considered not real players.
I just finished reading her biography ... how many times did she have to deal with "women can't do this" "women will never do that" - but she didn't make a song and dance about it - she just did her own thing in her own time - sod all those who considered her accoplishments just luck.
I am going to vote for he for the following reasons:
generally:
1. rock climbing is my passion
2. its a sport where recognition is given on rare occasions, endorsements/pubblicity/ etc are even more rare
specifically:
3. she adapted what might not have been considered the best build for the sport (almost physical disadvantage - when you consider her height) to an advantage by creating her own specific climbing style
4. she crossed the sexual barrier - competing against men at a par, and still coming out on top, but NEVER making an issue of it.
5. hey!- she's one of the best climbers arround
so thats my 2c worth!
K
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rkclmbr
May 4, 2004, 11:51 AM
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Registered: Jun 13, 2003
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In reply to: Sweet, Lynn made it to round 3! She's up against a triathlete now, looks like a formidable opponent. Vote vote!
She's getting creamed in this round... 65% to 35% when I voted.
Better hurry up and vote.
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quantum48
May 4, 2004, 1:42 PM
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Registered: May 2, 2004
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Wow great find, I placed my vote for Lynn and then one for my girl Diana Taurasi, Go UConn Huskies!!!!!!!
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roc-dude
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May 4, 2004, 2:12 PM
Post #53 of 64
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Give the woman some respect and your vote. This triathlete has nothing on her. Lynn has done more for our sport than the triathlete has done for hers.
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captaintrad
May 4, 2004, 2:18 PM
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Registered: May 3, 2004
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Direct link to the current vote:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=degree/lindquist_hill
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climbsomething
May 4, 2004, 8:39 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Sweet, Lynn made it to round 3! She's up against a triathlete now, looks like a formidable opponent. Vote vote! She's getting creamed in this round... 65% to 35% when I voted. Better hurry up and vote.
Hey, I didn't see a percentage thingymajig when I voted :(
Well, BUMP anyway!
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gds
May 4, 2004, 8:51 PM
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OK I'll admit to not reading the whole thread so if this is a repeat comment--sorry.
Many of us oldsters were first introduced to Lynn Hill on a TV show called (I think) Survival of the Fittest. That was ~20 years ago and I had never climbed at that point. It was a bunch of athletes competing in a bunch of different events. Lynn Hill totally dominated.
I think she won it several times. Lynn Hill is not just a great female climber-she is a great athlete-male or female.
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roc-dude
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May 5, 2004, 2:54 PM
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Bump
Lets give lynn a little help..
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jammer
May 5, 2004, 3:03 PM
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Registered: Jun 25, 2002
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Unfortunatally, she did not make it. Below are the final two ... :wtf:
ULTIMATE ATHLETE CHAMPIONSHIP
Serena Williams
Mia Hamm
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porter
May 5, 2004, 3:05 PM
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Registered: Apr 20, 2004
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Too Late, she lost with 35% of the vote. Not bad though for someone unknown to most of the world. Bet she could beat the tri-suit off of that Barb woman, if she wanted to. She probably would not want to though.
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roc-dude
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May 5, 2004, 3:06 PM
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It looks like Lynn Got beat, 64% to 35%.. So sad...:(
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rurpboy
May 18, 2004, 3:37 AM
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:? This kind of "who's the greatest" voting is really inane. It demeans the spirit of climbing. If you really want to get into who are the best climbers then you've got to cast your vote for the great free-soloists, who are as far as I know all male. That is not a chauvinistic statement, so do not come back with some politically correct nonsense. It's simply a fact. If pressed to cast my vote for climbing's ultimate aficianados it would be for names like Peter Croft, John Bachar, the late John "Yabo" Yablonski, the late Derek Hersey, the late Wolfgang Gullich, Tomo Cesan, and others of their ilk. When men ascend difficult multi-pitch routes without ropes (as when Croft free-soloed Astroman) you are witnessing the unequaled zenith of climbing. The rest of us are mere pretenders to the throne, including Lynn Hill, because we need our ropes.
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braaaaaaaadley
May 18, 2004, 4:18 AM
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Registered: Dec 9, 2002
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I think its pretty unreasonable to even compare climbing to these other sports. Lets see how well Serina and Mia hamm play their game when they know death comes if they loose... Im not saying that they are not great, but compareing these athletes is like trying to vote for the best bird species when your options are a couple of grade A chickens and a falcon... not to mention your judges are a bunch of chicken enthusiests.
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curt
May 18, 2004, 4:26 AM
Post #63 of 64
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Registered: Aug 27, 2002
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In reply to: :? This kind of "who's the greatest" voting is really inane. It demeans the spirit of climbing. If you really want to get into who are the best climbers then you've got to cast your vote for the great free-soloists, who are as far as I know all male. That is not a chauvinistic statement, so do not come back with some politically correct nonsense. It's simply a fact. If pressed to cast my vote for climbing's ultimate aficianados it would be for names like Peter Croft, John Bachar, the late John "Yabo" Yablonski, the late Derek Hersey, the late Wolfgang Gullich, Tomo Cesan, and others of their ilk. When men ascend difficult multi-pitch routes without ropes (as when Croft free-soloed Astroman) you are witnessing the unequaled zenith of climbing. The rest of us are mere pretenders to the throne, including Lynn Hill, because we need our ropes.
Speak for yourself. As I wouldn't know, how does it feel to be a true moron? Please feel free to have a wank and pop your zits in the mirror before responding.
Curt
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climbsomething
May 18, 2004, 5:13 AM
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Registered: May 30, 2002
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I'm sure name recognition helped the winners some... Pfft. We know where Lynn stands.
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