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bustloose
May 26, 2004, 7:27 PM
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so, the long awaited repeat of "the worlds first 15a" (according to the US press) has happened. Sylvain Millet has sent Realization, and downgraded it. to 9a. he claims that Biographie is likely only 8c, and it only took him 2 weeks to send Realization, and does not feel it is 15a. It took Sharma 2 years of attempts and countless falls at the upper crux, so he called it 15a, perhaps Chris is just not as good as North America thinks he is?
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areyoumydude
May 26, 2004, 7:30 PM
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Chris never called it 15a.
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bandycoot
May 26, 2004, 7:31 PM
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Did Sharma rate Realization or did he just climb it?
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voriand
May 26, 2004, 7:31 PM
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It is so subjective.
I know one thing for a fact. I will NEVER be able to do that.
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crimpandgo
May 26, 2004, 7:34 PM
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Chris refused to give it a rating. The press called it a 15a when guys like David Graham attempted it and failed.
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scotto
May 26, 2004, 7:34 PM
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i'm curious of your source - 15a to a 9a is a freakin huge difference. 15a to a 13a or something like that is maybe more believable.
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moonshine505
May 26, 2004, 7:35 PM
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What a pathetic troll for a response...how's it working out for ya? Did it make you feel better?
Sharma never graded it...this is why
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addiroids
May 26, 2004, 7:35 PM
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I downgrade stuff all the time! This is nothing new. As long as the visiting climber doesn't look at the guidebook, you can get away with it. Open Book 5.9? Nooooo, easy 5.7. The Vampire 5.11a? Nooooo, barely 5.9+. The Edge a scary runout 5.11a testpiece? Noooo, sport bolted 5.10-.
And it's France for goodness sakes. Who the hell cares what goes on there anyways.
TRADitionally yours,
Cali Dirtbag
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moonshine505
May 26, 2004, 7:37 PM
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9a is french grade for .14d...
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bustloose
May 26, 2004, 7:38 PM
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scotto, i'm on a group email list of climbers that i have met and climbed with in the past, it landed in my inbox this morning. and perhaps maybe get your grading straight... it's one grade difference...
moonshine, think what you will. this is not about whether Sharma graded it or not, it's that it took him 2 years to send, and Sylvain dispatched it with relative ease.
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bandycoot
May 26, 2004, 7:41 PM
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In reply to: this is not about whether Sharma graded it or not
In reply to: Sharma 2 years of attempts and countless falls at the upper crux, so he called it 15a, perhaps Chris is just not as good as North America thinks he is?
STFU n00b
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scotto
May 26, 2004, 7:42 PM
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In reply to: 9a is french grade for .14d...
oh
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vertical_reality
May 26, 2004, 7:42 PM
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In reply to: it took him 2 years to send, and Sylvain dispatched it with relative ease.
Then why does 8a.nu say that "he worked the route for quite a while"?
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pushsendnorcal
May 26, 2004, 7:44 PM
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The reason why everyone and the press thought it was harder than 9a/14D is because every strong climber, who has done at least 9a/14D and has tried it has failed.
Steve McClure-three 14Ds, failed
Dave Graham-five 14Ds, failed
Francis Legrand-one 14D
Francis Petite-many 14Cs
The list goes on and on. Basically every strong climber has tried that failed and has been unsuccessful.
But on the other side, when Chris started working Realization he had spent two days rope climbing over the course of 2.5years. Chris wasn't exactly in rope climbing shape.
We will have to wait until more people repeat the climb and give an average grade
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taraus_de_bull
May 26, 2004, 7:48 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: it took him 2 years to send, and Sylvain dispatched it with relative ease. Then why does 8a.nu say that "he worked the route for quite a while"?
i was wondering when someone would mention that. and 8a.nu mentions nothing of a down grade.
hmm..
so what other 14d's has this guy climbed? just out of curiousity?
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junkie
May 26, 2004, 7:48 PM
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Actually, it's not a troll. I saw on 8a.nu that Sylvain did indeed repeat Realization. About the grades I have no idea though. Although I heard that he did not have to work it all that long. But I don't know for sure.
And for the guy who does not understand grades (scotto)
15a = 9a+
14d = 9a
14c = 8c+
14b = 8c
Bustloose is saying that Sylvain downgraded it from 9a+ to 9a, and called the first half of the climb 8c (instead of the reported 8c+).
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bustloose
May 26, 2004, 7:50 PM
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pardon me? who are you calling a noob?
just because i am suggesting that Sharma may be overmarketed makes me a noob? nice try.
anyone remember the Mandala...?
it took him 2 weeks of attempts spread over several visits to the crag.
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taraus_de_bull
May 26, 2004, 7:50 PM
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also, whats kind of funny is you say he says biographie is the part he downgrade. When both mutant spainish guys sent it and never down graded it, check out their scorecards on 8a.nu. they've sent a ton of hard as climbs and neither of then have done realization yet.
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bandycoot
May 26, 2004, 7:53 PM
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I'm calling your pathetic mentality n00bish. Why can't it be a good thing for Millet instead of a bad thing for Sharma? Oh, because you have to make yourself feel better.
STFU n00b
Edit: You even lied to make Sharma seem worse.
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bustloose
May 26, 2004, 7:53 PM
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i'm sure lots of people beleive the world was round before someone actually proposed the idea to 'the public'.
someone has to take the abuse, and many people shy away from it.
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moonshine505
May 26, 2004, 7:53 PM
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And it's worth mentioning that Millet lives in Gap, which happens to be where Ceuse is...Sharma's "2 years of work" was spread over a few transatlantic trips
Does this remind anyone of the Mandala? Hell that thing went unclimbed for years until chris did it, people speculated V15 (8C) and now, depending on which crumbled version of it exists at the time of a send, folks are rating it around V12. Again, precicely why Chris doesn't rate his routes.
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bustloose
May 26, 2004, 7:56 PM
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the point, which all of you are so helpfully proving, is that you are only upset about the downgrade because Sharma was the FA. you are all so fast to step on any 'new' 15a or harder, and downgrade routes and problems that you have never even set eyes on, but as soon as your beloved Chris is in the picture it's a different story...
edit: bandyboy... shut up already, ok?
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taraus_de_bull
May 26, 2004, 7:58 PM
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In reply to: anyone remember the Mandala...?
if memory serves, one other person sent it in is the same way he did and called it the same grade, and then a key hold broke, changing the line and also downgrading.
Bustloose, you are acting like a noob, here's why, your trashing this guy millets accomplishment by slandering sharma. it seems like your a one of the many jealous sharma haters. why don't you keep the hating on sharma to your personal life and give credit where credit is due. This guy millet did a great thing, stop discrediting him no matter what the grade, MANY strong guys fail at this route, he did an awesome thing, give the dude his credit and stop all your hating.
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drrock
May 26, 2004, 8:03 PM
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micronut
May 26, 2004, 8:07 PM
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In reply to: it took him 2 years to send, and Sylvain dispatched it with relative ease.
It's comparing apples to oragnes. Take your hardest redpoint at your local crag, for me.12a/b. I can usually do routes that fit my style at this grade at my local crag in a few days to a few weeks., WHEN WEATHER CONDITIONS ARE RIGHT, I HAVE THE RIGHT PARTNER, I'M INJURY FREE, AND PSYICIALLY PEAKING. I can tell you right now that if I went on a two week trip to France and tried to send at my limit, it would be a whole different thing. The chances of success would be very low.
Regarless, Chris Sharma did an amazing thing, his send was beautiful, and I'm sure so was Millet's. It's the medicore rank and file that even care what the # is. And also, it's always easier to repeat something that's been done than to pioneer. Hat's off to both these exceptional and gifted athletes.
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junkie
May 26, 2004, 8:08 PM
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As a random thought (please note I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the original post, merely commenting on your responses):
When ANYONE in the world claims a V16/15b/c or other hard climb, everyone in this forum jumps up and down and calls them liars. Dai Koyomada (V16), Fernandez (Chilam Balam, 15c) are both great examples.
THEN someone DARES question the god-like status of Sharma, and everyone defends the grade. It's Sharma after all.
Just noting the basic hypocrisy of this forum.
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bustloose
May 26, 2004, 8:10 PM
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In reply to: Its always tons easier watching someone else try a route first. Then you see what works and what doesn't. EDIT: of course none of us could ever send it.
what? the sequence at the top is no mystery... watching video footage would not shave weeks of effort from the send...
have any of you actually read my responses before posting?
On any given day, you will all jump down the throat of some unknown Euro who proposes 15, V15 or whatever, and immediately say that he has not enough experience on that grade, or what has he ever repeated, or, why hasn't he sent Realization then? AND NOW some of you are saying that i am taking away from Millet's accomplishment, and that he deserves his moment in the sun blah blah blah... are you not concerned that he 'hasn't climbed enough routes at that grade to make a decision'? no, you're just upset that you think it makes Sharma look bad. no i am not a 'sharma hater' grow up. i'm just shedding a little new light...
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drrock
May 26, 2004, 8:15 PM
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wyattearp
May 26, 2004, 8:18 PM
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Just so you know Millet was the 2nd ascentionist of the original Biographie 8c+ , and now that he has repeated Relization, I would givemore props to Sharma for sending it amoungst a couple trips, while Millet has the ability to climb it everyday! And now he is downgrading the original 8c+, sounds like some good old BS, and who knows what the grade is Climbing Magazine was the one to rate it how funny is that, Sharma never gave it a grade, the INDUSTRY did, !
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sticky_fingers
May 26, 2004, 8:20 PM
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In reply to: i'm just shedding a little new light...
Then please quote WHERE you heard about the possibility of it being downgraded. I, along with probably everybody else, have been checking this on 8a.nu, but can't find anything relating to a downgrade. I think people are upset with you because of the unsubstantiated downgrade you say Millet suggested.
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dynoguy
May 26, 2004, 8:21 PM
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Don't turn this into jab fest at Sharma, he never graded the damned thing.
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taraus_de_bull
May 26, 2004, 8:23 PM
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In reply to: have any of you actually read my responses before posting? On any given day, you will all jump down the throat of some unknown Euro who proposes 15, V15 or whatever, and immediately say that he has not enough experience on that grade, or what has he ever repeated, or, why hasn't he sent Realization then? AND NOW some of you are saying that i am taking away from Millet's accomplishment, and that he deserves his moment in the sun blah blah blah... are you not concerned that he 'hasn't climbed enough routes at that grade to make a decision'? no, you're just upset that you think it makes Sharma look bad. no i am not a 'sharma hater' grow up. i'm just shedding a little new light...
Read my posts, i did ask what else has he sent.
also, it doesn't matter who sent it, the guy made a cool send, why do you have to bash it with all this trash just to bad mouth sharma. you obvious don't like sharma and i'm gathering americans in general. your just looking for a reason to bad mouth him. soon your going to bad mouthing caldwell for flex luther.
second, sharma never graded it, so why would down grading it make him look bad? one strong person in the world repeated something that he did. almost all the other mutants have tried and failed, it called be call 6a and and it wouldn't take away from sharma's great work on a climb that he only got on when he was in ceuse. As someone pointed out, thats millets backyard, it obviously gives him an advantage. but none the less, he did it and only ONE other human in the world has too. no matter the grade, both of these to guys deserve serious repect for the send.
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leaverbiner
May 26, 2004, 8:24 PM
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In reply to: oh my. nothing funnier than a bunch of people spouting off without any actual knowledge of the subject at hand. pathetic. this is exactly how rumours get life and continue to grow. just shut up already.
Sound Familiar? Your own words seem quite fitting for your commentary on this topic . . . stop hating, a repeat of Realization is fantastic . . . who the F' cares if it gets a lower rating than originally thought (notice I don't say down rating, because it WAS NEVER RATED by anyone ofther than the press and sponsors). . . ti was a remarkable feat by someone that had a personal accomplishment. Pretty simple, leave it at that.
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drrock
May 26, 2004, 8:27 PM
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slablizard
May 26, 2004, 8:28 PM
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Very true.
Happened the same thing with Mauro Calibani and Tonino 78 (V15).
[quote="When ANYONE in the world claims a V16/15b/c or other hard climb, everyone in this forum jumps up and down and calls them liars. Dai Koyomada (V16), Fernandez (Chilam Balam, 15c) are both great examples.
THEN someone DARES question the god-like status of Sharma, and everyone defends the grade. It's Sharma after all.
Just noting the basic hypocrisy of this forum.
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junkie
May 26, 2004, 8:39 PM
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Wideguy,
You are correct. I should have been more critical of the American climbing media, who touted it as 15a even though Sharma never said anything. I retract any criticism of Sharma himself.
The point remains that this forum is quick to slag someone if they claim something new. In this case, someone (so we've been told) dared to downgrade the route that is the darling of American Media. How dare they?
This forum is hypocritical. If it's an american ascent, then everyone loves it. If it's a guy with a name like Koyomada, Rouhling or Calbani, then everyone here jumps all oevr them and calls them liars.
Open your world view (not YOU Wideguy, but this forum in general).
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moeman
May 26, 2004, 8:41 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: THEN someone DARES question the god-like status of Sharma, and everyone defends the grade. No, I hear a bunch of people defending Sharma on in regards to the fact that SHARMA NEVER GRADED IT!! A couple of you guys are focusing on what Sharma said it was vs. what Millett says it is and it's comparing apples and elephants. Sharma never said. And I bet if you'ld ask him, Sharma would say, "Cool. He nailed that? Awesome. Fun climb." Obviously Millet is one of very few freakishly strong climbers in the world. So is Sharma. And let's face facts, 14d vs. 15a (9a xs. 9a+)... what's the freaking difference? Both fantastic feats worthy of notice.
Exactly. As Sharma said, "Climbing isn't about the math" (or something like that. They are both redonkulously strong, and I'm sure Sharma is very happy for Millet, downgrade or not. I've heard that Sharma is a very cool guy in that respect. Maybe the two of them can meet up and smoke a bowl sometime...
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edge
May 26, 2004, 8:43 PM
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Great last few posts, group hug.
I'm curious though, what did the Euro media assign for a grade, or did they? Definately not trying to start anything up again, but how did they describe Realization?
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jakedatc
May 26, 2004, 8:47 PM
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hahahahhaha i knew this would happen once someone else sent it..
either the guy was gunna be "i'm super strong i agree it's 15a" or "i'm super strong that's only 14 blah blah" Either way.. you need at least a 3rd to make an average
as to the time spent working it... if this millet guy was the 2nd guy to do Biographie then you gotta add the time he worked that into his time on Realization dontcha think? if he has the bottom moves wired well in advance of trying the top he'll be less pumped while trying the top moves
someone else talked about sharma bouldering mostly before he started doing that... he had to build his endurance back up to his route climbing standards. sure he did it on the route he was training for.. but why not take care of both at the same time
LOL and either way without a legitamate source for ANY of it.. it's all speculation and crap
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simianboy
May 26, 2004, 8:57 PM
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Oh no, an ungraded climb just got downgraded.
The only logical explanation must be that this evil Millet guy downplayed his life's greatest achievement to participate in a worldwide anti-Sharma conspiracy.
It's just not fair, I tell ya.
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climb_plastic
May 26, 2004, 9:03 PM
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In reply to: And let's face facts, 14d vs. 15a (9a xs. 9a+)... what's the freaking difference?
That's a whole grade difference. There's only less than a handful of people in the world that have done 5.15. Chris Sharma isn't even one of them. He climbed Realization....he never graded it so whatever Millet says is the grade is going to be the grade because it's never been rated by anyone who has actually climbed it. Actually no one has ever been confirmed to have climbed a 5.15 yet because they're so fricken hard there aren't enough people in the world who climb hard enough to repeat them.
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cloudbreak
May 26, 2004, 9:10 PM
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In reply to: bandyboy... shut up already, ok?
Okay BL, why do want to resorted to name calling.
Oh, look at that, your last name is Barnaby. That's a little close to BARNEY don't you think?
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curt
May 26, 2004, 9:17 PM
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Curt has moved this thread to the Rona Barrett gossip forum, where all the posts are about people who lead more interesting lives than those posting do. :D :D :D :D
Curt
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jumaringjeff
May 26, 2004, 9:24 PM
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well, I mean, I don't give a rat's ass about any of this, so that automatically makes it a stupid subject.
Good day.
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screamer
May 26, 2004, 9:25 PM
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Great send of a beautiful climb...Props to Millet
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bandycoot
May 26, 2004, 9:40 PM
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Bustloose:
In reply to: the point, which all of you are so helpfully proving, is that you are only upset about the downgrade because Sharma was the FA. you are all so fast to step on any 'new' 15a or harder, and downgrade routes and problems that you have never even set eyes on, but as soon as your beloved Chris is in the picture it's a different story...
What does this have to do with "beloved Chris"? It's not like we're lying to make him look good like you lied to make him look bad. I think you should wonder why you don't like him?
I second the props to Millet! Great send!
Josh
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ullr
May 26, 2004, 9:40 PM
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Blah, blah, blah. Yawn, sleep.
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climbin_high
May 26, 2004, 10:10 PM
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In reply to: Blah, blah, blah. Yawn, sleep. |
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climbsomething
May 26, 2004, 10:10 PM
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What part of "calm the fuck down" is escaping so many people in this thread?
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ullr
May 26, 2004, 10:12 PM
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In reply to: What part of "calm the f--- down" is escaping so many people in this thread?
Thank you.
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climb_plastic
May 26, 2004, 10:12 PM
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In reply to: .....perhaps Chris is just not as good as North America thinks he is?
I've seen him climb and he's as good as I thought he was...everybody else that's seen him climb says he's as good as they thought he was. Maybe he's better than you think.
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meataxe
May 26, 2004, 10:22 PM
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I'm struggling to find a way that the grade of Realization might affect my life in a positive way.
Can anyone help?
:?
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vegastradguy
May 26, 2004, 10:52 PM
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how the hell did this get 4 pages worth of replies? :roll:
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moeman
May 26, 2004, 10:58 PM
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In reply to: how the hell did this get 4 pages worth of replies? :roll:
You seem to have forgotten that we are a bunch of gossipy old women.
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coldclimb
May 26, 2004, 11:01 PM
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Was there ever a legitimate source for the claim that the route was downgraded? I haven't seen one yet, so I'm just curious... :?
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tedc
May 26, 2004, 11:10 PM
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In reply to: how the hell did this get 4 pages worth of replies? :roll:
We are AMERICANS. We are SPORTS fans. We NEED heros. We aren't CLIMBERS.
rc.com moto.
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deafears
May 26, 2004, 11:33 PM
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I, for one, am interested in standard-setting achievements like Sharma's, and now Millet's. I am interested when a top climber opens a candidate for the world's hardest route.
I am not, however, interested in jingoistic anti-American, pro-American or any other form of nationalistic babble from petty voices in cyberspace (assuming that isn't everything that's ever been written on the Internet).
Nice job on the repeat ... a repeat is always much easier than establishing a first ascent, but Millet is an awesome climber and I'm sure he is not the one talking trash.
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yosemite
May 27, 2004, 12:03 AM
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This thread is the reason why I have done very well on my investment in the stock of the makers of Prozac.
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fiend
May 27, 2004, 12:37 AM
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Sheesh, we all know that downgrading is the fashionable thing to do. Let them have their fun...
It takes a few ascents before a concensus is reached and Realization has only seen two ascents... only one of which proposed a grade. Sharma says "dude, it was way rad... pass the bong", Millet coughs smoke out and says, "dude, it was way hard but I dunno why everyone says 15a... it didn't feel any harder than Hugh, but maybe that's just me."
Now we have to wait for someone else to send it and give a possible grade. After this happens a couple of times then Mick Ryan, new head of the Ceuse Grading Commision, can come and give it an official downgrading because some relatively unknown Italian came and flashed it.
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rokon
May 27, 2004, 12:55 AM
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Yeah, Dirtbag is right
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james_climber
May 27, 2004, 1:34 AM
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In reply to: so, the long awaited repeat of "the worlds first 15a" (according to the US press) has happened. Sylvain Millet has sent Realization, and downgraded it. to 9a. he claims that Biographie is likely only 8c, and it only took him 2 weeks to send Realization, and does not feel it is 15a. It took Sharma 2 years of attempts and countless falls at the upper crux, so he called it 15a, perhaps Chris is just not as good as North America thinks he is?
1.- is there a video ????¿¿¿ , i visited the page and i didnt see anything
2.- sharma didnt say its a 9a+(5.15a) the press said that and , he just said yeah¡¡¡¡
3.-sharma was 2 seasons not 2 years , he wasnt living at the crag
ive been in mexico with cris and 4 me is still the best
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catbiter
May 27, 2004, 2:00 AM
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You grade munchers! :D
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climbingfreak
May 27, 2004, 2:11 AM
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Sharma is an incredible climber so is Millet but I question his true motives. Is this a bid to draw critiscm on to the 'god like' Sharma and attract sponsorship bids. Whatever it may be Sharma in my mind is the world's best and his route Realization is still 15a.
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alpnclmbr1
May 27, 2004, 2:28 AM
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In reply to: so, the long awaited repeat of "the worlds first 15a" (according to the US press) has happened. Sylvain Millet has sent Realization, and downgraded it. to 9a. he claims that Biographie is likely only 8c, and it only took him 2 weeks to send Realization, and does not feel it is 15a. It took Sharma 2 years of attempts and countless falls at the upper crux, so he called it 15a, perhaps Chris is just not as good as North America thinks he is?
As far as I can tell this and the title of this thread is a outright lie.
In reply to: (climbing) Monday 29 Septembre 2003 at 11. 34 Rumours It would seem that Patxi Usobiaga made "Realization" and that Sylvain Millet would not be very far from making in the same way. Information to be followed... on Kairn.com |
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sully264
May 27, 2004, 3:35 AM
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I don't get why you all care what some ridiculusly hard climb is rated. I'm just happy for sharma and Millet because they both sent one of the most difficult routes in the world.
Making this into some talk about nationalism and antiamericanism and downgrading ratings at difficulties that none of us will ever get neer is really dumb. Pass the bong.
Sully
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crux_clipper
May 27, 2004, 8:11 AM
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I met a guy while bouldering in NZ, who had spent some time with Dave Graham in Spain a few months prior. When i asked him whether dave gave any comments on Realization (i knew that he had tried it) he said that whil all the moves were possible, on their own, to link the entire thing seemed impossible to him. Obviously it wasn't THAT impossible, but its gotta be nails if thats Daves idea of the route.
yep, a top effort by Millet, all the congratulations much deserved!
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rokon
May 27, 2004, 3:34 PM
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Who the hell cares, in sport climbing there aren't any ethics anyways, Sharma did it first, plain and simple, all the rest is bs
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cliffhunger
May 27, 2004, 4:35 PM
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Whoever posted this thread, you are clearly misinformed.
I have been hearing about Sylvain's work on Realization for quite a while, and am not surprised that he bagged the second ascent, he might as well have bagged the first, at the time Chris was working on it!
Biographie was first ascended in 1996 (by Arnaud Petit), and repeated by Chris the same year, and since Sylvain has the second ascent, that means he also sent in 1996. He has been doing burns in the lower part for quite a while, then.
I would be very surprised to hear that he personally "downgraded" the route, as he has sent virtually every hard route in Ceüse, and knows this one is harder that the others. Since there are no other routes harder than 8c+ there, rating Realization 9a would only be in the line of upping the ante at the crag, if Sylvain's experience of hard redpoints is mostly at Ceüse. You should see this as an honest guess based on his experience, not a slag on the route's difficulty.
I remember hearing that Sylvain was already pretty solid in walking the lower part when Chris was doing his last trips (before the FA), the guy would skip up to 3 bolts in a row to save energy for the crux.
If he said the lower part is only 8c, please remember he wasn't the only one to suggest so. Biographie has been called soft 8c+ many times, and being able to send it consistantly for 8 years might help you believe it's actually easier.
As for other hard ascents, you should all also get informed before you start slagging. Most of them weren't posted by poseurs, and people made them whoppers where the actual climber almost never uttered a word.
Realization: Chris just sent. No comments. Simple, no?
Orujo/Chilam Balam: Bernabé has a record of doubtful ascents and chipping practices, but may still have sent those.
Akira: long story...
La Rambla: no doubt on the ascent, and Ramonet certainly has the credentials to send that hard.
Daï's recent bouldering feats... no reason to doubt them, he walked every problem in that cave before working the full link. He reportedly can do a one-finger pullup on an half-pad edge. Need more?
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sully264
May 27, 2004, 10:58 PM
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I don't get why you all care what some ridiculusly hard climb is rated. I'm just happy for sharma and Millet because they both sent one of the most difficult routes in the world.
Making this into some talk about nationalism and antiamericanism and downgrading ratings at difficulties that none of us will ever get neer is really dumb. Pass the bong.
Sully
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wallwombat
May 28, 2004, 12:23 AM
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I just read all five pages of that spew. I feel like part of my life was stolen.
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andy_reagan
May 28, 2004, 12:37 PM
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it was.
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bustloose
May 28, 2004, 1:53 PM
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possibly one of the more successfull trolls in recent history.
no, Millet has not donwgraded Realization. Yes, Ceuse is his home crag and he has spent a fair bit of time on Realization. Yes, a fantastic send of an obviously hard route, does not take away from Chris' FA in the least.
what IS interesting, however, is the blatant hypocrisy that was displayed here. If Millet had sent a new line up there, or anywhere, then you all would have said it was full of shit, and that he knows not what he is speaking of, some 'unknown' climber making a big claim for sponsorship. Just cause YOU haven't heard of him does not make him unknown. When Chris sent Realization, he had not sent enough 9a's to give him credibility, except in the eyes of the American climbing public. This is by no means disrespectful to Sharma, it's disrespectfull to all of you. So quick to judge those that are not part of your small minded little worlds.
In reply to: Whatever it may be Sharma in my mind is the world's best
thanks for making this an enjoyable read, and maybe, just maybe, one or two of you will think twice about some of the points i made. but more likely you will all call me nasty names and forget anything that was said here by the time lunch rolls around.
phil.
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jipstyle
May 28, 2004, 7:03 PM
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In reply to: This forum is hypocritical.
This argument has been presented several times in this thread, and it is really starting to annoy me. A forum can not be hypocritical. A hypocrite is a person, and I hope you will agree that a forum is not a person.
This forum is a collection of people; these are people who have varying opinions. It is quite true that people on this forum have cast doubt upon FAs of cutting-edge routes and problems (though, interestingly, only in the sport and bouldering world ... ). It is also true that people on this forum have defended Sharma when his grades (which aren't really his, since he rarely proposes a grade for his FAs) are questioned. These two facts do not make a forum 'hypocritical' ... which is an impossibility ... rather, they illustrate the variety of opinions held by the members of this forum.
It is a GOOD thing.
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bustloose
May 28, 2004, 7:36 PM
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jip, what you're missing is that this forum CAN be hyprocritical, because it is not a collection of people with varying opinions... it is a bunch of followers who have a lot of trouble forming their own opinions, and in cases like this, think as one person (and i use the term 'think' very loosely here')...
you will also notice the complete lack of posts today, although the thread has gained many more views... could it be that they have realized that i might just be right, and have absolutely nothing to say...?
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jipstyle
May 28, 2004, 8:53 PM
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Once again, a forum can not be hypocritical, because it is not one person.
You say that the forum is 'like' a person, in that it acts 'as one, without opinions' ... and then you call 'it' hypocritical because it (the forum) demonstrates more than one opinion. This just doesn't make sense.
Some people worship Sharma because he is so strong.
Some people hate Sharma because he is so strong.
Some people hate Sharma because some people worship him, etc. etc..
All of these people can be found on rc.com. In fact, if you substitute a climber's name for Sharma (Caldwell, Hill, Potter, whoever) and any excuse for 'he is strong', and you'll find the same variety.
So ... when someone posts anything about anyone, people are going to piss all over each other defining the 'achievement' (or lack thereof) ... at length ... 'cause that is what we do here.
Hypocrisy is impossible if you can agree on an ideal to betray.
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jipstyle
May 28, 2004, 8:55 PM
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Once again, a forum can not be hypocritical, because it is not one person.
You say that the forum is 'like' a person, in that it acts 'as one, without opinions' ... and then you call 'it' hypocritical because it (the forum) demonstrates more than one opinion. This just doesn't make sense.
Some people worship Sharma because he is so strong.
Some people hate Sharma because he is so strong.
Some people hate Sharma because some people worship him, etc. etc..
All of these people can be found on rc.com. In fact, if you substitute a climber's name for Sharma (Caldwell, Hill, Potter, whoever) and any excuse for 'he is strong', and you'll find the same variety.
So ... when someone posts anything about anyone, people are going to piss all over each other defining the 'achievement' (or lack thereof) ... at length ... 'cause that is what we do here.
Hypocrisy is impossible if you can't agree on an ideal to betray.
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deafears
May 28, 2004, 10:46 PM
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Well said, jipstyle.
Bustloose, don't hate the Sharma, hate the game.
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campo
May 29, 2004, 11:38 PM
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Bustloose my man...you gotta stop being so defensive...maybe smoke a little ganja...or would that make you too much like Sharma....?
Got forbid that should happen!
PROPS to Millet...seems most people have forgotten to just enjoy climbing...they rather make it into a debate
Forget the freaking ratings....climb what you like and forget the rest!
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ikefromla
May 30, 2004, 8:02 AM
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bustloose, I don't understand why you would spend that much time being malicious and rude to prove your [outright] point that Americans love Sharma too much. I mean, who wastes their time even THINKING about this?
and as for sully264, when you say:
In reply to: ratings at difficulties that none of us will ever get neer |
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dynamicpanda
May 31, 2004, 12:57 AM
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When are you guys gonna get bored of saying the same things over and over? I just read 2 pages of this and page 6 looks no different than the first 2 did.
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realization_83
May 31, 2004, 10:15 AM
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sharma is a legend, who cares what the grade is, what matters the most the individual climbing the route, sharma worked so hard on realization and eventually overcame it, if millet only took two weeks to complete it then good for him, sharma is still a legend though, near flash of The Fly 5.14d or 9a and then sent it within the hour of his first try, the fastest ascent of a 9a route ever.
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jipstyle
May 31, 2004, 1:05 PM
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In reply to: When are you guys gonna get bored of saying the same things over and over? I just read 2 pages of this and page 6 looks no different than the first 2 did.
Apparently, we're still going strong. :P
Thanks for the bump back onto the front page, though. :)
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yotschou
May 31, 2004, 1:53 PM
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this is the ONLY official news about the ascent of millet....
DERNIERE NOUVELLE!!!
Sylvain MILLET veins d'enchainer "Biographie". Il devient donc le premier répétiteur de ce 9a+. Encore Bravo!!!
says...: " he has been doing the first repetition of an 9a+ ever "....so,nobody is speaking about downgrading!
Lundi 24 mai 2004, Céüse, une fois de plus.
Echauffement classique, en douceur, au secteur de Berlin dans Coup de blues, Petite illusion, Blocage violent et Makach walou.
Puis direction "Biographie". On est plus que trois à la falaise; le froid ayant fait fuir les autres grimpeurs. Le vent de la collante est là, les conditions sont optimales. Concentration habituelle au pied de la voie. Et c'est parti pour un nième essai. La première partie est vite enchainée, repos au niveau du relais, puis quelques mètres après, long repos avant le crux. Bidoigt, inter pour bien le travailler, tridoigt, puis jeté en croisant sur la réglette. Un pied part, mais ça tient, pour la première fois, dément. Grognements et encouragements pour les quelques mouvements durs suivants. Delayage rapide au repos qui suit, puis les derniers mètres, plus facile. Relais: "Ok, prends".
Magistral !
Redescente rapide. "Panda" vient d'enchainer Biographie, elle est bien bonne celle là.
Fallait bien que ça arrive un jour, mais là, c'est démentiel!
Une bonne heure après, on descend de la falaise, en regardant une dernière fois LA coulée bleue mythique.
Heureusement, il reste un nombre incroyable de projets à faire ici...
Merci Sylvain, tu m'as offert un beau cadeau pour mon anniversaire...
Récit de Yannick Bourgeois
fact is : Millet never downgraded the route....
or where did you get this information...bustloose ??!!
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bustloose
May 31, 2004, 2:31 PM
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it's true, it's true... people really do just read the first post and then reply to it!!
dude, read through the thread, then delete your post.
i've said before, and i'll say again, i don't hate sharma, or the the game, i just have issues with the blatant North Americans rule the world attitude.
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climb_plastic
May 31, 2004, 4:35 PM
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In reply to: i've said before, and i'll say again, i don't hate sharma, or the the game, i just have issues with the blatant North Americans rule the world attitude. |
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bustloose
May 31, 2004, 9:55 PM
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i suppose i'll respond one more time. no i am not from France. and dude if you've had all those conversations, then you're talking with the wrong crowd.
i too have travelled all over the world to climb, and the only time Chris' name came up was when we were standing below Realization and a german friend said "holy shit, that looks just evil, Sharma must have been on top of his game"
Sure, every country and every region feels they have some of the best, but within reason, they at least look at facts and make intelligent statemets. Francois Legrand was the best comp climber during the 90's. this is a fact. he is no longer the best comp climber out there, and no one says he is. rational people can see that times change, and new climbers appear, shred and get old. the NA media only has eyes for Chris, and that is disappointing, because there are tons of very talented young (and some old) climbers out there.
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hardmanknott
Jun 1, 2004, 3:20 PM
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What a pathetic thread.
I had the misfortune of wading though a whole page and a half of it.
You clowns need to "STFU" and do some actual climbing or something.
Or something.
Hardman Knott
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jipstyle
Jun 1, 2004, 9:36 PM
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Now I want a beer.
Damn subliminal signatures.
Ok, it was far from subliminal.
STFU.
Beer.
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acrophobic
Jun 6, 2004, 8:52 AM
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hmm so it seems bustloose fell prey to rumor spraying with no actual backing.
since the whole point of this thread has been discredited, lets just lock it?
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deafears
Jun 9, 2004, 7:26 PM
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Why lock a thread that inspires so much good, honest loathing -- isn't that what chat rooms are for?
Here's the latest from Climbing mag ...
Millet Won't Grade Realization
By Dougald MacDonald
Frenchman Sylvain Millet, who made the second ascent of Chris Sharma’s Realization at Ceüse, France, in late May, says he doesn't know how hard it is — the only sure thing, he says, is that it's harder than the 8c+ (5.14c) routes he has climbed at the same crag. Millet, ranked sixth in the world in competition climbing, spent three years working on the route, which adds about 50 feet of difficult climbing to Biographie, an 8c+ first redpointed in 1995 by Arnaud Petit. Millet made the third ascent of the original Biographie in 1999.
After Sharma’s ascent in 2001, Realization was widely touted as 5.15a, despite the fact that Sharma never graded it. Unsuccessful attempts to repeat the route by strongmen such as Dave Graham and Patxi Usobiaga have added to its stature. But Millet says he has no idea if the climb is 9a+ (5.15a).
“I don’t have enough reference to say if it is 9a or 9a+ — I have made only two 8c+’s [plus], and one of them has not been repeated. Moreover, I don’t care about that," Millet said. "The only thing that suggests it would be 9a+ is the number of climbers who are very strong who tried the route without linking it, and the number of tries which Chris did to link it — and me even more!”
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bustloose
Jun 10, 2004, 8:03 PM
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In reply to: hmm so it seems bustloose fell prey to rumor spraying with no actual backing. since the whole point of this thread has been discredited, lets just lock it?
dude, i didn't 'fall prey' to anything... i started a troll to elicit a predicted response, and you all stepped up beautifully. then ran away when you realized that point i was making was spot on.
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climb_plastic
Jun 10, 2004, 10:43 PM
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In reply to: dude, i didn't 'fall prey' to anything... i started a troll to elicit a predicted response |
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bustloose
Jun 11, 2004, 2:52 PM
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jesus H christ on a popsicle stick... i give up. yes, you're soooo smart you got me pegged... i make a rookie mistake.
happy now?
fuck.
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jipstyle
Jun 11, 2004, 6:52 PM
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In reply to: dude, i didn't 'fall prey' to anything... i started a troll to elicit a predicted response, and you all stepped up beautifully.
That is the oldest excuse for losing an argument on the 'net. :roll:
In reply to: then ran away when you realized that point i was making was spot on.
The only spot in this thread is the egg on your face.
You invented a problem (hero-worship), and accused everyone who disagreed with you of being a slave to that mentality. You lied, and then pretended it was a troll in order to save face.
Get over yourself. Toss the chip off your shoulder .. you'll climb better without the weight of your bruised ego.
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bustloose
Jun 11, 2004, 7:15 PM
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shut the fuck up already.. the only thing you tried to add to the thread was a useless argument about semantics.
i think i would know what my intentions were, thank you very much, i don't need all of you telling me what happend.
it would now be pointless to continue to try and make you see my point, seeing as how minds have been made up about how i was misinformed and then lost an argument. i likely knew about the repeat before any of you, and 99% of you didn't even know who Millet was. i used that opportunity to make my point about hypocrisy on this board. if you don't want to see that, then go ahead and continue your ignorant little existence.
i don't need to 'save face'... i didn't even lose the argument, i am quite pleased with the result of my post, even though most people here are too stubborn or dimwitted to see that. i 'invented' the problem of hero worship?? are you kidding? it's rampant on here.
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