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WVUCLMBR
Apr 4, 2008, 3:06 PM
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So i was just on climbing mags website and there is an article about a well know (not named) climber who drinks too much. Last month there were 3-4 stories about climbers that were depressed and suicidal. So my question is are we suicidal? Is climbing something that draws in people who are depressed or drink.....or does it cause us to be depressed/drink? Personaly, I used to drink a lot and now I excercise/climb instead. I've never tried to kill myself, but all my life I've been attracted to dangerous activities. I've been on some highball stuff @ Coopers with no pad and bad landings and realized that what I was doing was really dangerous but I didn't care. Is that suicidal or just stupid? I know this post differs from my usually lighthearted comments/flames, but I have been thinking about this since reading last months articles and I just wondered if anyone else ever pondered this?
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blueeyedclimber
Apr 4, 2008, 3:12 PM
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All this shows is that climbers are human and are not immune to the ills of society.
With this logic you could ask if all priests are child molesters.
Josh
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dingus
Apr 4, 2008, 3:14 PM
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Yes. You got a problem with that?
DMT
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WVUCLMBR
Apr 4, 2008, 3:19 PM
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I think I was looking to see if percentage-wise we are more suicidal. Not all priests are child molesters, but do they molest @ a higher rate than say accountants? Not all climbers are suicidal, but are more of us suicidal than say bowlers?
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angry
Apr 4, 2008, 3:20 PM
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Good question.
It reminds me of the "Good at climbing, bad at living" thread I started a few years ago.
With some very notable exceptions, climbers are not suicidal. That they are willing to step into situations that they "should" survive tells a different part of the story.
I'm not suicidal, never have been and never will be. I'm quite willing to free-solo long routes that aren't utterly easy 5.10-easy5.11. As confident and strong as I feel, that doesn't change the concrete fact in my mind that a fall would end my life. Soloing is truly the meekest I feel when climbing.
Now to drinking. I'm not a drunk. I get truly hammered only a couple times a year. Others do more. My employment is working a downtown party scene, I see more alcohol abuse on any given night than I've seen in all the climbing campgrounds I've ever been at. I've only ran into 3 climbers there.
I guess the summary of my ramblings is this, climbers have a different priority on mortality (theirs and others') but aren't any more blatently self destructive than any other group of society.
(This post was edited by angry on Apr 4, 2008, 3:21 PM)
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ClusterFock
Apr 4, 2008, 3:34 PM
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With this logic you could ask if all priests are child molesters.
Who needs to ask?
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ja1484
Apr 4, 2008, 3:47 PM
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I resent the implication that I'm suicidal!
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monomyth
Apr 4, 2008, 3:52 PM
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WVUCLMBR wrote: realized that what I was doing was really dangerous but I didn't care. Is that suicidal or just stupid?
suicidal
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ja1484
Apr 4, 2008, 3:54 PM
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monomyth wrote: WVUCLMBR wrote: realized that what I was doing was really dangerous but I didn't care. Is that suicidal or just stupid? suicidal
Well, the action is probably suicidal, but the OP is probably just stupid.
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monomyth
Apr 4, 2008, 4:00 PM
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ja1484 wrote: monomyth wrote: WVUCLMBR wrote: realized that what I was doing was really dangerous but I didn't care. Is that suicidal or just stupid? suicidal Well, the action is probably suicidal, but the OP is probably just stupid.
I never tried to kill myself but there was a time when I wanted, that was the stupidest time in my life, so I guess you are right :) Drinking is stupid too, btw!
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moose_droppings
Apr 4, 2008, 4:01 PM
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Drinking and suicide run the spectrum of society and don't put up walls or boundaries as to who they inflict. As far as percentages of drinkers in certain fields go, it does seem to me that the harder people play (or work) the more they tend to drink. As far as percentages of suicides go, I'd hazard to guess that its less in climbing than most other past times. Living close to the edge doesn't equate to suicidal to me. Seems like climbers take extra steps to keep themselves safe.
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Sin
Apr 4, 2008, 5:21 PM
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WVUCLMBR wrote: So i was just on climbing mags website and there is an article about a well know (not named) climber who drinks too much. Last month there were 3-4 stories about climbers that were depressed and suicidal. So my question is are we suicidal? Is climbing something that draws in people who are depressed or drink.....or does it cause us to be depressed/drink? Personaly, I used to drink a lot and now I excercise/climb instead. I've never tried to kill myself, but all my life I've been attracted to dangerous activities. I've been on some highball stuff @ Coopers with no pad and bad landings and realized that what I was doing was really dangerous but I didn't care. Is that suicidal or just stupid? I know this post differs from my usually lighthearted comments/flames, but I have been thinking about this since reading last months articles and I just wondered if anyone else ever pondered this?
-Sin
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monomyth
Apr 4, 2008, 5:23 PM
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In reply to: eem to me that the harder people play (or work) the more they tend to drink.
Interestingly that climbing experience itself is a direct contradiction to such idea. While climb you relieve stress not by drinking but through conscious relaxation, breathing and better balance. I suppose not a lot of people make any connections between the two methods, and when they get down/up drinking starts as a socially programmed activity.
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Sin
Apr 4, 2008, 5:35 PM
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It kind of hard you know, to find that balance between rockclimbing and the other priorities. I could easily get lost in the desert or the mountains for a good month, but than i'd lose my house and cars,lol. So I guess its all about maintaining a balance you know. I think I've done well in that area, but you still do need some man time huh?
(This post was edited by Sin on Apr 4, 2008, 5:44 PM)
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kyote321
Apr 4, 2008, 5:36 PM
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drinkers with a climbing problem.
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Gmburns2000
Apr 4, 2008, 5:54 PM
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I think it's the other way around. I don't get the sense that adrenaline and endorphins are chemicals that are released when one wants to die, but instead are released when one is afraid of dying (OK, it's not quite like that, but you get the idea). So maybe even subconsciously it's the thrill of living through a difficult moment that feeds the desire to runout or do a highball boulder, for example.
In fact, I think this is even the case during those "my girl just dumped me because I'm a loser and so I'm going to solo something" moments. Even then, the loser wants to get away and prove to himself that there is something to life. Those "desperate" solos are the seeking of life, not the desire to end it.
Also, the mere notion that the vast majority of climbers use devices and techniques that are meant to allow for a safe environment is proof that we don't want to die any more than when we get behind the wheel.
BTW - I think these two chemicals noted above are released often in climbing, especially the second one if you've got a hot partner who doesn't mind doing it mid-climb.
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WVUCLMBR
Apr 4, 2008, 7:13 PM
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I think I agree with most of what you are saying. I know that in my case I feel most alive when out climbing. So much alive that times of idleness feel overly depressing. I guess the high I get from climbing is so great in comparisson with my usual state of being that it is only when climbing that I feel "alive". I guess that the real root is an addictive personality. First it was chicks, then beer, then countless hobbies, then I started climbing again. Now I am totally obsessed with climbing. It has started to take over my thoughts. Fortunately the weather is improving in WV and this weekend I'll get my 1st Seneca fix of 08'. And best of all my 2nd will be my wife, who tolerates my climbing obsession, ropes up when she can, and try's to understand why every night I inspect/arrange/rearrange all my gear. and again, I'd like to appologize for attempting to bring intelligent conversation here. I know rc.com isn't for this type of thing. Everyone be safe this weekend and don't drink to much you drunks......
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jt512
Apr 4, 2008, 9:15 PM
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blueeyedclimber wrote: With this logic you could ask if all priests are child molesters.
Actually, with that logic he could ask: (1) Are men who are have a propensity to molest children have a propensity to become priests? or (2) Does becoming a priest increase the likelihood that a man will become a child molester? I would say that the answer to both those questions are unclear.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Apr 4, 2008, 9:21 PM)
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Hunny
Apr 6, 2008, 1:11 AM
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alcohol is a depressent, so???
if someone is depressed or down drinking does not help right?
ummm wait a minute i argue it does, what am i typing? God I'm depressed i need a drink now!
honestly we all know it's an inherently dangerous sport!
I think personally that no matter what the hobby or occupation suicide or the thought is just a chunk of life's woes everyones deals with from time to time!
so engaging in an inherently dangerous sport or activity and being suicidal, that's a tricky situtation me thinks?
Now what i would like to see is a whole mess of suicidal leaders in washington all at the same time, wait don't we have that now??? Hmmmmmmm
this is too deep!
sorry just funning!
I cannot add anything else most posts sum it up!
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ladyrockstar
Apr 6, 2008, 2:29 AM
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This is interesting. I had a friend who was a priest, and he showed me an article in a magazine for priests that was about a survey that had been done. In the survey, 73% of those who responded said they became priests because they were either gay or had an attraction for boys. My priest friend was gay and died of AIDS a few years later.
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notapplicable
Apr 6, 2008, 2:40 AM
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angry wrote: Soloing is truly the meekest I feel when climbing.
I think this is one of most satisfying things about going ropeless. For it to be a sustainable activity there is this madatory level of humble, self effacement that has to be achieved.
Concerning the OP, in my experience climbers are certainly a wild bunch but the 'self destructive impulse' is a trait shared by all. Of course everyone has their poison, for some its whiskey, for some its McDonalds and others prefer the YeYo. Six of one, half dozen of another and all that.
I think that alot of time, the most "tall tale" worthy climbing is done by those living wide open and most often they do that across the board. Climbing heavy and hard is often accompanied by drinking heavy and hard and the the two are just parts of the same story. This is clearly not always the case but I think its a part of the reason the connection is often made.
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subtle
Apr 9, 2008, 11:23 PM
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WVUCLMBR wrote: So my question is are we suicidal? Is climbing something that draws in people who are depressed or drink.....or does it cause us to be depressed/drink?
After watching the number of people that pathologically need to drag an aircraft carrier sized pad under an indoor low-ball VB+ to protect them from the unforgiving blue foam gym floor...I am inclined to believe that most climbers aren't that suicidal. Having said that, once they style the aforementioned VB+...which totally isn't my lifetime proj, as far as you know...I am frequently depressed and immediately start binge drinking like Bukowski in the Sahara. Except I'm drinking Red Bull, which just means I end up shaking and twitching like...Bukowski...pretty much everywhere.
Allez. I have to go to the Post Office. Homard.
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dingus
Apr 9, 2008, 11:32 PM
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Why'd ya leave the beer upon the table?
Ya wanted to!
DMT
(This post was edited by dingus on Apr 9, 2008, 11:33 PM)
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WVUCLMBR
Apr 10, 2008, 1:01 PM
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This makes me think of a touch question I almost asked last week. Someone asked if we should include gym routes on the database. I was gonna ask if prople feel that gym climbers (climbers that only climb in gyms, not people who train indoors/climb outdoors) are actually climbers? Is this kinda like someone who owns a fishing game for Nintento Wii calling themselves a fisherman? I should also note that my gym experience is extremely limited. I've only climbed indoors 3-4 times and was always left.......plasticised?
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