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stoneguy
Nov 11, 2011, 12:32 AM
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Or for which apps are they best.?
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colatownkid
Nov 11, 2011, 12:50 AM
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stoneguy wrote: Or for which apps are they best.?
Could you elaborate just a bit? Micro nuts? Micro cams?
The short answer to your question is "a lot," but like everything, it depends and your mileage may vary.
(This post was edited by colatownkid on Nov 11, 2011, 12:51 AM)
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stoneguy
Nov 11, 2011, 3:28 AM
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Nuts. With only thin cracks do you try to use them in groups or trust them singly.
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binrat
Nov 11, 2011, 12:12 PM
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In Ontario Limestone not very much.
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johnwesely
Nov 11, 2011, 12:17 PM
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I trust them as much as I have to and get something better as soon as possible.
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patto
Nov 11, 2011, 12:21 PM
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I completely trust micro nuts and micro cams when in good rock. Most of my climbing is at the crag that the original micro nuts (RPs) were invented for.
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notapplicable
Nov 11, 2011, 12:41 PM
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stoneguy wrote: Nuts. With only thin cracks do you try to use them in groups or trust them singly.
It depends. Whats the type of rock, breaking strength of the nut, quality of the placement and length of the fall? Also, who is belaying me and is it on the first pitch or is the belayer anchored in?
(This post was edited by notapplicable on Nov 11, 2011, 12:42 PM)
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onceahardman
Nov 11, 2011, 1:46 PM
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Better than nothing.
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stoneguy
Nov 11, 2011, 1:54 PM
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Pretty much my feelings. Any chance anyone makes them in a sintered alloy that would be signifigantly harder, or does that mean you'd never get them out.
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stoneguy
Nov 11, 2011, 2:05 PM
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I was looking for a "light at the end of the tunnel" but not really expecting it to be on. The surface crumble on limestone is only about 1/16. Theoretically bronze should.... ok maybe not. Thanks
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johnwesely
Nov 11, 2011, 2:10 PM
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stoneguy wrote: Pretty much my feelings. Any chance anyone makes them in a sintered alloy that would be signifigantly harder, or does that mean you'd never get them out.
They would probably just break the rock, but the cables break first in hard rock anyway.
(This post was edited by johnwesely on Nov 11, 2011, 2:10 PM)
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colatownkid
Nov 11, 2011, 2:35 PM
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stoneguy wrote: Pretty much my feelings. Any chance anyone makes them in a sintered alloy that would be signifigantly harder, or does that mean you'd never get them out.
In general, micro-nuts are made a bit softer so that they deform slightly or gouge to help crystals in the rock bite better and provide a more secure placement.
In good granite, I generally trust them to hold a short fall (depending on the size of the piece and its rated strength). I similarly trust them in hard, compact sandstone (like that in the Southeast U.S.) I would be extremely dubious of them in limestone.
As stated by others, I'll trust them enough to get me to the next "good piece." While I don't usually make an equalized "nest" out of them, I have no qualms placing a few in close proximity of one another.
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stoneguy
Nov 11, 2011, 5:11 PM
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Yeah, I kind of use them as a "stabilizer" if there is nothing else, or until I can get a better placement.
I really love the little things, but just wish I could use them.
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rgold
Nov 11, 2011, 5:34 PM
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Yep, better than nothing. Probably getting to be nothing once they near your foot level, the inevitable humongous whipper stories notwithstanding.
Sometimes one is all you can get, but unless I can see that better pro will be available soon, I usually try to get in two or more if the placements are there, or else run a string of 'em relatively close together. The point is to avoid depending on only one if you can.
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rtwilli4
Nov 11, 2011, 6:05 PM
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In a perfect placement I trust any piece of gear to do what it's supposed to do. Micro gear isn't as strong as big gear, but it's still strong. Fortunately I mostly climb on bomber stone but obviusly that's a major factor.
I think it's pretty damn hard to get a perfect placement for a small cam (think grey or purple c3). For this reason i'd rather place an RP or a ball nut.
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LostinMaine
Nov 11, 2011, 6:44 PM
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I trust them with your life. Run it out.
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granite_grrl
Nov 11, 2011, 10:16 PM
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binrat wrote: In Ontario Limestone not very much.
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A-Bowl
Nov 12, 2011, 3:15 AM
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Talking bout nuts right? I trust the wire strength on them to catch me so when they look impossible to pull in solid stone (good taper, no exit) i go for it. Even if they look shady I place them as much as possible as the high piece before the crux so that a lot of the fall force lands on them not on expensive and easily broken micro cams.
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moose_droppings
Nov 12, 2011, 5:24 AM
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For aiding I trust them for body weight. For free climbing they're some where between mental pro and best be looking for something more inspiring. They may catch a fall, but I wouldn't sell any stock in them for that. If it's possible to nest a few I'd feel better.
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stoneguy
Nov 12, 2011, 2:28 PM
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Thanks for the morning humor. OK.. so I pretty much agree with everybody, but I love micros, so why can't we get something better.?
A hardened steel would cut into the stone (like a chisel) preventing twist and increasing surface contact. Do you know if anyone makes anything like this.?
Smaller, lighter, better holding.. is hard to beat.
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onceahardman
Nov 12, 2011, 2:40 PM
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stoneguy wrote: Thanks for the morning humor. OK.. so I pretty much agree with everybody, but I love micros, so why can't we get something better.? A hardened steel would cut into the stone (like a chisel) preventing twist and increasing surface contact. Do you know if anyone makes anything like this.? Smaller, lighter, better holding.. is hard to beat.
Well, we used to use a well-driven knifeblade or Bugaboo. They can be really bomber.
Polite people don't use them for free climbing any more, though.
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gunkiemike
Nov 12, 2011, 4:11 PM
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stoneguy wrote: Thanks for the morning humor. OK.. so I pretty much agree with everybody, but I love micros, so why can't we get something better.? A hardened steel would cut into the stone (like a chisel) preventing twist and increasing surface contact. Do you know if anyone makes anything like this.? Smaller, lighter, better holding.. is hard to beat.
Check out BDs microstoppers. Not sure about the current bits they offer, but the originals were described as "copper-infiltrated steel". Significantly harder than brass or bronze. I love mine in quartzite and granite.
Edit - I just checked...BDs current micros are "iron/copper mix". Notapplicable (see his post below) may not consider that "steel", but they are really hard.
(This post was edited by gunkiemike on Nov 12, 2011, 5:17 PM)
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notapplicable
Nov 12, 2011, 4:36 PM
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stoneguy wrote: Thanks for the morning humor. OK.. so I pretty much agree with everybody, but I love micros, so why can't we get something better.? A hardened steel would cut into the stone (like a chisel) preventing twist and increasing surface contact. Do you know if anyone makes anything like this.? Smaller, lighter, better holding.. is hard to beat.
What are you even talking about? There are a solid variety of micro nuts available, made from an equally wide variety of alloys. See links below. And no, there are none made from steel on that list and for good reason.
http://dmmclimbing.com/...icro-wire-of-choice/
http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Climbing-Nut-Reviews
http://www.rockclimbingcompany.co.uk/...tion/Micro-Nuts.html
(This post was edited by notapplicable on Nov 12, 2011, 4:40 PM)
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Mark_Hudon
Nov 14, 2011, 4:19 PM
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Best probably for aid but if I'm free climbing and that's all I can get, I'll go for it.
I have the Metolius set and the Kn rating is stamped right on them. When I'm aiding, I'll take a gander at that and adjust my attitude accordingly. 
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