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banjoboy
Feb 9, 2004, 8:31 PM
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I have noticed a quite dissapointing trend in the south over the past two years. People are actually trying to raise grades to area testpieces, and it's not just visiting climbers! Problems such as the orb, Instinct, and burst of joy are being way overgraded. The orb used to be the southern standar for v8, now it has somehow jumped that border and is typically called v9. Instinct went from 8 to 10. burst of joy from 7 to 9. I dont' know why, maybe people are growing soft. This is only the beggining of the list. It seems that now if a problem is kinda tricky it goes at v8 at least. This is dissapointing me greatly. The old-school gradfes are being desecrated. You know that the hardest problem in the south is v10!
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graysondamondamian
Feb 9, 2004, 8:47 PM
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In reply to: You know that the hardest problem in the south is v10!
BS dude, go to lrc and try the dragonlady project or barndoor2000 or the chattanoogan
only the chattanoogan has ever been sent (once by james litz) the other two are insane
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banjoboy
Feb 9, 2004, 8:51 PM
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The hardest problem in the SE thing is a joke, I've done stuff harder than 10 here, but that used to be the typical saying, if it was freakin sick then it was 10, no matter if it was 12 or 13. Secondly the chattanoogan has been sent twice also done by andrew traylor.
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graysondamondamian
Feb 9, 2004, 9:21 PM
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In reply to: Secondly the chattanoogan has been sent twice also done by andrew traylor.
my bad
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cloudbreak
Feb 9, 2004, 9:38 PM
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In reply to: The hardest problem in the SE thing is a joke, I've done stuff harder than 10 here, but that used to be the typical saying, if it was freakin sick then it was 10, no matter if it was 12 or 13. Secondly the chattanoogan has been sent twice also done by andrew traylor.
Why are you so bent on numbers?
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banjoboy
Feb 9, 2004, 9:47 PM
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You know, I don't really mean to be bent on numbers... They're just kinda guidelines. I don't grade problems that I put up, It is just a drag to see the standards dropping... These are the problems that all of the other problems round here are measured by. I'm just super bummed to see them go. Know what I mean? I feel like it's dishonoring the first ascentionists, and on top of that it seems that if I quit climbing now in a few years I'll have climbed way harder than ever before.
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andy_reagan
Feb 10, 2004, 12:49 AM
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rhetorical questions: How did the grades start? Could it be that they were used as guidelines to denote level of difficulty in comparison to other problems? Could it be that a greater multitude of problems have become public thus thickening the problem population, allowing routes to be judged more accurately? Should all "grading" be taken very lightly?
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fontyyy
Feb 11, 2004, 12:50 AM
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In reply to: Should all "grading" be taken very lightly? |
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tenn_dawg
Feb 11, 2004, 1:01 AM
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Banjo,
Who's keeping track of the ratings of boulder problems anyway? The only guide I know of for Rocktown is that drtopo thing, and it leaves aLOT to be desired.
When chris finally put the pen to the paper and made a guidebook for Lilly Boulders, problems were rated at the best guess by those helping him. As soon as the grade is written down, it's just to be used as a guideline anyway.
And of ALL the kinds of grades, bouldering Vgrades are by FAR the most subjective. One man's V8 is another man's V5. Hell, when boulder problems start getting hard, the difference in the pattern of your friggin FINGERPRINT probably has a substancial effect. Heh.
Besides, I'm not as worried about the grommets thinking they're climbing harder than they really are. Flash their project, call it oldskool V5 and leave their jaws on the floor if it helps you feel better. I'm MUCH more conserned about getting sandbagged on a long multipitch trad route than I am about grade creep in boulder problems.
Sandbagging a long route can cause an epic. Grade creep on a boulder problem just helps someone think their pecker is just that much bigger at the end of the day. Who cares?
Travis
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curt
Feb 11, 2004, 1:29 AM
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Grade inflation is certainly not a local phenomenon. Go get on a bunch of the old "Sherman era" V9s at Hueco and compare them to many of the newer V10s and harder rated problems, especially in newer bouldering areas. New problem ratings seem pretty soft to me--not all of them, mind you--but it does seem to be a general trend.
Curt
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captianstatic
Feb 11, 2004, 1:31 AM
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I've noticed that some problems have actually been dropping in grades, most notibly during the HP40 Triple Crown comp where Millipede was downgraded from V7 to V6 and Bumboy V5 was downgraded to a V3/V4. Hammerhead was also downgraded from a V6 to V5. There were several others I can't recall that were downgraded from the Dr. Topo guidebook. Anyway who gives a shit the V system is super subjective. The best climber is the one who has the most fun!
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tenn_dawg
Feb 11, 2004, 2:18 AM
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cap'un,
The grades given on the Triple Crown comp sheets were intentionally downgraded. I think it was to help level the playing field by keeping people from wiring problems they knew would be at the upper end of the division's difficulty.
By the same token, however, at Hound's Ear I was onsighting problems with no beta that were a couple grades above my hardest running beta flash. I think the comp sheets were a little bogus, and by the time HP40 rolled around, I was just climbing the problems that looked good, and collecting my free beer and Tshirt.
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xanx
Feb 11, 2004, 2:58 AM
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um, waht about God Module? only a "V10" now?
i know of 2 SOLID V11 climbers who got pretty much shot down by it.
Paul Robinson (6 V11's, including The Egg in Squamish and Venus in Scorpio, Gunks) came close to the first move.
Nick Bocchicchio (Karajo, Bismark V11, Death Penalty V10) just walked away from it laughing. and if u know anything about him, u DOESN'T get intimidated by ANYTHING.
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jonf
Feb 11, 2004, 9:45 PM
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Xanx, Paul and Nick are definitely strong kids, but I dont think sending a couple V11s constitutes being called a SOLID V11 climber.
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moeman
Feb 11, 2004, 10:29 PM
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Lets take ou cue from John Gill. B1, B2, B3. Thats all you need. So the orb is a sweet B2. They're just guideling, remember.
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curt
Feb 11, 2004, 11:08 PM
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In reply to: Lets take ou cue from John Gill. B1, B2, B3. Thats all you need. So the orb is a sweet B2. They're just guideling, remember.
Works for me!!! :lol:
Curt
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revdeuno
Feb 11, 2004, 11:14 PM
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you should be happy, you'll be climbing harder grades without improving in reality! yeay
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banjoboy
Feb 12, 2004, 9:06 PM
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I'm glad to see people actually responding to this post. The B1 B2 and B3 grades are the way to go for sure! but to play the devil's advocate they will never last. People spray too much in this climbing wolrd and there are websites rating the worlds strongest climbers. While I know that grades are totally bullshit! We can't just run around changing them all willy nilly because we can't do them or flash them. I'm just trying to get some standard deep south guidelines going. I don't care what is v8 anywhere else. Down here the Orb is v8 and that is the standard by which all v8s in this area should be measured. If we up the problems that we measure all problems by then everything getrs easier. You know what screw it let everybody up the grades. I'll quit climbing today and in three years I'll have sent v14!!
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andy_reagan
Feb 12, 2004, 9:50 PM
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in a few years we'll all be grading problems with the help of scientific notation. Why call your favorite problem v10 when you can call it V x 10^21?
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bouldering-bumm
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Mar 6, 2004, 1:35 AM
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I agree that most of the problems in North Carolina are way over rated. Try "Throttle" its the easiest V.5 you'll ever climb
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dynamicpanda
Mar 9, 2004, 2:26 AM
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Throttle may not be a v5, but thats not what you should think about after you do it. You should be more concerned over whether or not it was a good line.
Banjoboy, why does it matter if the ratings in the southeast are getting softer? The problems themselves are not changing at all. The Orb would look like (i've never been to rocktown, but i've seen pictures) a sweet line whether it was v0 or v16. If you our worried that people will get the idea that people will look down on the south because of our ratings, that doesent matter either. We have lots of great rock. Climb it and be happy!
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innominato
Mar 9, 2004, 3:50 AM
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Bring back Gill's system, I agree.
What's funny is remembering, about 15 years ago, Bob Murray chucking huge dynos off of arbitrary little pisser pocket holds on the Streambed Wall in Socorro, New Mexico, in his bare feet.
Ultra-ripped, ultra-strong, ultra-in-his-own-world. If you were to go try to slap V-grades on these things now, or even try to climb them, you'd get taught.
I've yet to see harder-looking moves, anywhere.
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akornylak
Dec 23, 2005, 2:43 AM
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In reply to: The hardest problem in the SE thing is a joke, I've done stuff harder than 10 here,
Like what?
Im not trying to be a dick or anything, Im just curious: of the problems you've done, what exactly you think is harder than 10 here?
Also, just because a bunch of people who havent done the Orb say its 9, doesnt mean thats the consensus. By the time they do it, it'll feel a grade easier to them, as usual.
I think if you are worried about things getting soft, it might be time to step up to the plate and show us something hard. Again, Im not trying to get up in your grill, thats just how the game is played!
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wallmonkey35
Dec 23, 2005, 3:27 AM
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Grades are dumb
STFU and climb!
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cadaverchris
Dec 23, 2005, 3:30 AM
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c'mon now,
i did bum boy at HP40 when it was V5 and now its V3 whats up with that, am i really getting weaker?
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