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drljefe


Jul 11, 2007, 6:15 PM
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Re: [karlbaba] Fear- on and off the crags [In reply to]
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I feel that my fears while climbing have saved my life. I was always conservative in my approach and followed my gut feelings. Sometimes the fear is silly and other times warranted, either way, healthy. I used to laugh at the NO FEAR advertising campaign. Fear is healthy and human, and sometimes embarassing. I had a meltdown in the mountains once, whimpering and all. Overcame that fear and committed to the glissade( I fear snow). I think there is a distinction between being scared and having fear- Just like Castanedas difference between looking and seeing. By the way, I loved the first book, stopped there, didn't need any more. Maybe it was my affinity for the desert, psychedelics, and rolling around with dogs that had manes of fiber optic water streams. Did I just say that? Power to the peaceful. I can dig your trip karl.


blakegt


Jul 11, 2007, 6:23 PM
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I debated whether anyone would care about this story but I decided to share it anyway. This is the story of my biggest battle with fear to this date.

I've have been riding BMX bikes for several years. Controlling fear is a big part of riding trick bikes, because your often moving very fast with very little control over yourself. Most tricks are really just a form of falling with style and learning to do tricks is learning to control yourself in disorientating and dangerous situations.

When I first started riding one of my major goals was to learn to grind handrails. Grinding handrails is difficult. Handrails are designed to keep old people from falling down stairs, and because of that they are generally very tall. It took me about two years to decide I was ready to try my first rail. I was comfortable with park rails and high "street" ledges, so I felt I was ready.

For my first rail I chose a 3.5' or 4' high square rail that was about 8' long. It wasn't too steep, and it has a reputation for being a good first rail. When I first rode up I was understandably nervous. One of the major issues with handrails are the stairs. If you fall on a skate park rail with a bank under it you can slide down the bank and be fine, but there isn't really such thing as a clean fall on a staircase. If you fall and land down the stairs it's gonna hurt.

Anyway after a couple of practice approaches I steeled myself and took off towards the rail. Approaching the rail I blocked out every other thought except the visualization of me grinding the rail. Then, I jumped. I immediately realized that I had jumped to hard and was coming in to fast. I was traveling to fast to catch my balance on the rail. My pegs hit the rail and I kept going right over.

At this point, my reflexes where acting. Part of bmx is learning to take falls and I had already jumped from the bike and was coming down feet first into the flower bed on the other side of the rail. Had it been a smooth surface I would have been fine. However it was not a smooth surface. I landed right on the edge of the flower bed and my foot lodged behind the stack of rail road ties holding up the dirt. My foot stayed in the hole as my body continued to fall the 4 to 5 feet to the ground below. I knew at once that I had broken my ankle.

Within a couple of months I was back to riding just as good as before, but for one thing. I was terrified of rails. It didn't matter if it was the smallest little rail in the skatepark. When I tried to visualize myself grinding it all I could see was my fall. I knew that the only way I would ever be able to grind another rail again was to conquer my fear. I tried everything I could think of to slowly get over it but nothing seemed to work, it was the strongest mental block I've ever experienced. The only way I was going to get over it was to grind the rail I broke my foot on.

For six months I tried to grind that rail. All I succeeded in was looking at it. I would go and stare at it, it was almost obsessive. In my thoughts I referred to it as "my nemesis". It became a huge goal in my life to grind that rail. I would go with friends that could do it in hopes that seeing someone else would help. Everytime I tried to grind it myself I would slam on the brakes in the last instant before jumping. Most of my friends thought it was funny at first, but then everybody started to get tired of going and looking at that rail every single time we went to ride.

Finally, on saturday morning almost a year after I broke my ankle I decided that today was the day. I went by myself to the rail. I sat and looked at it for perhaps 20 minutes before I worked up the courage to go for it. I approached the rail tentatively, cautiously. For six months I had tried to make myself hop my bike onto this piece of metal pipe and had never been able to make myself even come off the ground. This time however I forced myself. I don't think I have ever been more terrified. I vividly remember flying through the air and visualizing the fall that broke my ankle the entire time. What was only seconds seemed several minutes, until finally I felt my pegs hit the rail.

However, because I was so cautious I was moving way to slowly. The force of my momentum was all coming down onto the rail instead of being pushed forward, and in short, I bounced. I bounced off the rail, down the stairs, and landed face down on the concrete. Then, my bike landed on top of me. It hurt. However, in that moment, that moment of failure and pain I experienced the greatest triumph of my life. I am shaking from adrenaline just thinking of it now. I may have fallen but I had conquered the fear.

I got back up and three tries later I cleanly grinded my first rail.

That was two years ago. Since then I have moved on in my life and now climbing has taken the place of bmx. I have yet to experience anything like that moment in my climbing, but if it comes I'll be ready. I know what it is to face my fear and beat it.

I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

- Litany Against Fear in Frank Herbert's Dune


keruha1


Jul 11, 2007, 6:37 PM
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fmd wrote:
Love overcomes fear.

Thank you. That just made my day.


drljefe


Jul 11, 2007, 6:41 PM
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Re: [blakegt] Fear- on and off the crags [In reply to]
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If you continue climbing I'm sure you'll expreience a similar situation to your handrail project. As with all progressive and potentially dangerous pursuits like climbing, skating, BMX, surfing, relationships, LIFE- we learn the most about ourselves through the fear, failure, dedication, triumph progression. That is what makes it all so rewarding.


fmd


Jul 11, 2007, 7:13 PM
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blakegt wrote:
I debated whether anyone would care about this story but I decided to share it anyway. This is the story of my biggest battle with fear to this date.

I've have been riding BMX bikes for several years. Controlling fear is a big part of riding trick bikes, because your often moving very fast with very little control over yourself. Most tricks are really just a form of falling with style and learning to do tricks is learning to control yourself in disorientating and dangerous situations.

When I first started riding one of my major goals was to learn to grind handrails. Grinding handrails is difficult. Handrails are designed to keep old people from falling down stairs, and because of that they are generally very tall. It took me about two years to decide I was ready to try my first rail. I was comfortable with park rails and high "street" ledges, so I felt I was ready.

For my first rail I chose a 3.5' or 4' high square rail that was about 8' long. It wasn't too steep, and it has a reputation for being a good first rail. When I first rode up I was understandably nervous. One of the major issues with handrails are the stairs. If you fall on a skate park rail with a bank under it you can slide down the bank and be fine, but there isn't really such thing as a clean fall on a staircase. If you fall and land down the stairs it's gonna hurt.

Anyway after a couple of practice approaches I steeled myself and took off towards the rail. Approaching the rail I blocked out every other thought except the visualization of me grinding the rail. Then, I jumped. I immediately realized that I had jumped to hard and was coming in to fast. I was traveling to fast to catch my balance on the rail. My pegs hit the rail and I kept going right over.

At this point, my reflexes where acting. Part of bmx is learning to take falls and I had already jumped from the bike and was coming down feet first into the flower bed on the other side of the rail. Had it been a smooth surface I would have been fine. However it was not a smooth surface. I landed right on the edge of the flower bed and my foot lodged behind the stack of rail road ties holding up the dirt. My foot stayed in the hole as my body continued to fall the 4 to 5 feet to the ground below. I knew at once that I had broken my ankle.

Within a couple of months I was back to riding just as good as before, but for one thing. I was terrified of rails. It didn't matter if it was the smallest little rail in the skatepark. When I tried to visualize myself grinding it all I could see was my fall. I knew that the only way I would ever be able to grind another rail again was to conquer my fear. I tried everything I could think of to slowly get over it but nothing seemed to work, it was the strongest mental block I've ever experienced. The only way I was going to get over it was to grind the rail I broke my foot on.

For six months I tried to grind that rail. All I succeeded in was looking at it. I would go and stare at it, it was almost obsessive. In my thoughts I referred to it as "my nemesis". It became a huge goal in my life to grind that rail. I would go with friends that could do it in hopes that seeing someone else would help. Everytime I tried to grind it myself I would slam on the brakes in the last instant before jumping. Most of my friends thought it was funny at first, but then everybody started to get tired of going and looking at that rail every single time we went to ride.

Finally, on saturday morning almost a year after I broke my ankle I decided that today was the day. I went by myself to the rail. I sat and looked at it for perhaps 20 minutes before I worked up the courage to go for it. I approached the rail tentatively, cautiously. For six months I had tried to make myself hop my bike onto this piece of metal pipe and had never been able to make myself even come off the ground. This time however I forced myself. I don't think I have ever been more terrified. I vividly remember flying through the air and visualizing the fall that broke my ankle the entire time. What was only seconds seemed several minutes, until finally I felt my pegs hit the rail.

However, because I was so cautious I was moving way to slowly. The force of my momentum was all coming down onto the rail instead of being pushed forward, and in short, I bounced. I bounced off the rail, down the stairs, and landed face down on the concrete. Then, my bike landed on top of me. It hurt. However, in that moment, that moment of failure and pain I experienced the greatest triumph of my life. I am shaking from adrenaline just thinking of it now. I may have fallen but I had conquered the fear.

I got back up and three tries later I cleanly grinded my first rail.

That was two years ago. Since then I have moved on in my life and now climbing has taken the place of bmx. I have yet to experience anything like that moment in my climbing, but if it comes I'll be ready. I know what it is to face my fear and beat it.

I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

- Litany Against Fear in Frank Herbert's Dune




You dont face your fears, you stand up to them.


puerto


Jul 11, 2007, 7:20 PM
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Young Man. You really think man is a mere machine?

Old Man. I do.

Y.M. And that his mind works automatically and is independent of his control--carries on thought on its own hook?

O.M. Yes. It is diligently at work, unceasingly at work, during every waking moment. Have you never tossed about all night, imploring, beseeching, commanding your mind to stop work and let you go to sleep?--you who perhaps imagine that your mind is your servant and must obey your orders, think what you tell it to think, and stop when you tell it to stop. When it chooses to work, there is no way to keep it still for an instant. The brightest man would not be able to supply it with subjects if he had to hunt them up. If it needed the man's help it would wait for him to give it work when he wakes in the morning.

Y.M. Maybe it does.

O.M. No, it begins right away, before the man gets wide enough awake to give it a suggestion. He may go to sleep saying, "The moment I wake I will think upon such and such a subject," but he will fail. His mind will be too quick for him; by the time he has become nearly enough awake to be half conscious, he will find that it is already at work upon another subject. Make the experiment and see.

Y.M. At any rate, he can make it stick to a subject if he wants to.

O.M. Not if it find another that suits it better. As a rule it will listen to neither a dull speaker nor a bright one. It refuses all persuasion. The dull speaker wearies it and sends it far away in idle dreams; the bright speaker throws out stimulating ideas which it goes chasing after and is at once unconscious of him and his talk. You cannot keep your mind from wandering, if it wants to; it is master, not you


from Mark Twain, "What is Man?"


morlebeke


Jul 11, 2007, 9:17 PM
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Re: [karlbaba] Fear- on and off the crags [In reply to]
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In reply to:
Because it drop dead obvious that out happiness and satisfaction in life is a state dependent on the mind, so the idea of controlling and mastering the mind is the most practical thing in the world

I feel this may mislead many, as the entire process of controlling the mind feeds into the mind's ability to control you. Use the mind for what it was intended, a wonderful tool for decisions and problem solving. Laugh at the ability of the mind to create additional 'problems' for you, separate the real from the imagined, and your sense of being will be shown to have that happiness we all have.

you're probably referring to the same thing, I just felt the semantics were misleading.

this is why so many enjoy the climbing, the immediate problems in front of us, how to move, how to protect, judiciously proceeding, occupy the mind correctly and eliminate the day to day mental nagging and railing against reality we are all susceptible to. thus freeing ourselves to simply 'be' during the climb. a sort of 'climbing as spiritual practice'.


wmfork


Jul 11, 2007, 9:50 PM
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summerprophet wrote:
A brief story that may enlighten you while we are on the topic.

When my partner and I were doing our first hard aid wall, he was on lead and it was pretty heady for C3+ (certainly for us at the time). Like anyone who has faced the high stress level attached to aiding at your limit knows, the brain is on a roller coaster ride of fear and emotion.

At one point I looked up at him from the comfort of the ledge and saw that he was in silent tears. I thought it was purely from the stress of being above a series of ten moves of hooks and micronuts. "Hey man I got you" I replied, thinking that a little reassurance was all that was needed. He looked over at me and said "Man. I really love my girlfriend, Well I think I really love my girlfriend, but I am not sure if it is just this wall making me say that"

You see, the heightened level of stress and fear mixed up his emotions to such a point that it brought out intense feelings. Those feeling were directed at the quickest escape from his current situation.

Like a champ, he pulled himself together and some twenty hours later we finished the route.

That's one more reason I needed to never start aid climbing.


karlbaba


Jul 12, 2007, 1:55 AM
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Re: [morlebeke] Fear- on and off the crags [In reply to]
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Here's something I wrote on the rewards of climbing that combines a lot that we are discussing

It's an article on this site and also on my site at

http://www.yosemiteclimber.com/Rewards_of_Climbing.html

The Rewards of Climbing

Folks have been trying to express the reasons and rewards of climbing for a long time. It's tough. I'm afraid I won't have the time or words to approach it now. But I'll make a start. Climbing can be anything from a crutch for our egos to a tool for personal transformation. It can be exercise, sport, art and religion.

We each have our own reasons and rewards for climbing. We may not even understand our reasons or be able to explain the rewards, but we feel something when we climb, and feel compelled to go on climbing.

For some climbing is like dancing; A joy in movement and self-expression. It can be merely exercise, which is pretty dang important to get! For others, climbing is mainly the backdrop for camaraderie and deeper friendships. We epic and we bond. We share this common experience, and now we belong somewhere. Some climbers become adrenaline junkies. We get a little jittery if we don't get the "rush" of some hard cranking on a regular basis.

It's easy for us to get our ego mixed up in our climbing. Most of the time, we are completely wrapped up in a mental dialog about ourselves. We weave an illusory concept of ourselves from our personal history and personal insecurities. That collection of concepts creates a false sense of identity which is our ego. We talk to ourselves internally about how we're doing, what we want, and what we fear. We struggle to find something special about our lives and ourselves. I have found that the false sense of self that this incessant dialog creates becomes a major limitation to peace and harmony in life.

We're seduced by our self-concept, and even if we experience climbing on some deeper level, it's hard not to relate it to our ego as well. Climbing is exotic and sexy. Being a "Climber" makes us special and elevates us above the mundane masses (at least in our minds) When we do something we didn't think we could, we feel better about ourselves. The more we feel our life's validity is related to climbing, the more we tend to think "our" type of climbing is superior to that of others. "Our" way of climbing is ethical and pure! Others don't understand because they haven't reached "Our" level. Still, it feels better to feel good about yourself than bad. Climbing's not a bad way to get there, if you can do it without putting others down in the process.

Sometimes climbing gives us a taste of something beyond our ego. Most of us have experienced flashes of peace and harmony while climbing. When I'm balanced on tiny holds and a lapse in concentration could send me plummeting to unknown consequences, I can't afford to be distracted by mental chatter. The circumstance of climbing brings me absolutely into the present moment. My whole being comes into focus on the problem of ascending stone. In the face of potential struggle for survival, the petty concerns of my little self dare not surface. I feel the power of my real being, integrated and intimate. I have the opportunity to realize that I would be better off without the incessant depressing pep talk of the mind. I start to break the habit of constant associative thinking. Being present and centered in the here and now is a state that is inherently fulfilling. Don't take my word for it, just notice for yourself when you are out on the stone, feeling in the groove! If you find you're having a bad day at the crags, take note of your state of mind. Collect yourself fully and see if things change.

Many sports have enabled people to have peak experiences. Anything that concentrates the mind creates a window for self-discovery. Climbing is an especially potent tool because the apparent risk DEMANDS our concentration. Concentration is not "thinking hard". It’s the focus of all our attention. Learning to focus and act in the face of fear gives us the power to respond when others simply panic. If I were a passenger in a car spinning out on an icy road, I would want a climber at the wheel.

Beside the intense experience of Being realized at peak moments on challenging climbs, the whole immersion in nature soaks us in peace and beauty.
Instead of just walking over the ground, our feet insulated with shoes, we embrace nature with our bare hands, with our whole bodies. By learning to use our body in concert to accomplish improbable moves, we reclaim our natural state of physical wholeness. An unconscious attitude that our arms are accessories for manipulating phones and faxes is replaced by a comfortable and intuitive sense of our physical totality.

When we go climbing, we return to a world undomesticated by artificial routines and pretensions. Most of us get into the habit of sleepily taking our world for granted. Climbing interrupts our usual world. Trees look different from hundreds of feet up. The whole landscape unfolds from a higher vantage point. The change in perspective allows us to have a different view on our lives as well.

When I soloed Zodiac, my second grade VI, in 1982, I was immersed in a week of solitary concentration in the vertical environment. 300 feet from the top I was ravaged by an intense storm that rained and snowed on me until things looked quite grim. Between breaks in the storm, I crept up to the summit and was redeemed! After a week without walking, and without many of the everyday experiences that I took for granted, everything seemed new again. Plants and trees seemed to explode with life. When I removed the rack and walked around unroped, I felt like an astronaut romping in the reduced gravity of the moon! The friends who came to help me carry gear down were magical beings. My heart swelled from feelings of brotherhood. When we reached the car, I felt like we were driving a million miles an hour. I can't even describe the hot food and cold beer. I enjoyed a refreshed experience of everything.


You might find yourself in different ways than I have. Your perspective on the blessings of climbing will be different. I just hope that you look within yourself and find out more about what climbing means to you; what it teaches you. Don't let anyone tell you what climbing "should" be for you! Own it yourself! Maybe you'll find that climbing helps you offer a better person to your whole world. The danger of domestication threatens you and your family. They won't be any happier in a sleepy daily routine either. They may have to find themselves in their own way too, but you can be the example. Take the freedom, fearlessness, and joy from your world of climbing and pass it on.


stabla


Jul 12, 2007, 2:10 AM
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Karl i really appreciate your posts on this thread!
Thank you for your thoughtful writing on the spirit of climbers and the culture in general!
-blake


pastprime


Jul 13, 2007, 5:24 PM
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Looks like all of the bright people with something worthwhile to say haven't left this site after all. Thankyou.


stabla


Jul 15, 2007, 7:19 PM
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karlbaba wrote:
Here's something I wrote on the rewards of climbing that combines a lot that we are discussing

It's an article on this site and also on my site at

http://www.yosemiteclimber.com/Rewards_of_Climbing.html

The Rewards of Climbing

Folks have been trying to express the reasons and rewards of climbing for a long time. It's tough. I'm afraid I won't have the time or words to approach it now. But I'll make a start. Climbing can be anything from a crutch for our egos to a tool for personal transformation. It can be exercise, sport, art and religion.

We each have our own reasons and rewards for climbing. We may not even understand our reasons or be able to explain the rewards, but we feel something when we climb, and feel compelled to go on climbing.

For some climbing is like dancing; A joy in movement and self-expression. It can be merely exercise, which is pretty dang important to get! For others, climbing is mainly the backdrop for camaraderie and deeper friendships. We epic and we bond. We share this common experience, and now we belong somewhere. Some climbers become adrenaline junkies. We get a little jittery if we don't get the "rush" of some hard cranking on a regular basis.

It's easy for us to get our ego mixed up in our climbing. Most of the time, we are completely wrapped up in a mental dialog about ourselves. We weave an illusory concept of ourselves from our personal history and personal insecurities. That collection of concepts creates a false sense of identity which is our ego. We talk to ourselves internally about how we're doing, what we want, and what we fear. We struggle to find something special about our lives and ourselves. I have found that the false sense of self that this incessant dialog creates becomes a major limitation to peace and harmony in life.

We're seduced by our self-concept, and even if we experience climbing on some deeper level, it's hard not to relate it to our ego as well. Climbing is exotic and sexy. Being a "Climber" makes us special and elevates us above the mundane masses (at least in our minds) When we do something we didn't think we could, we feel better about ourselves. The more we feel our life's validity is related to climbing, the more we tend to think "our" type of climbing is superior to that of others. "Our" way of climbing is ethical and pure! Others don't understand because they haven't reached "Our" level. Still, it feels better to feel good about yourself than bad. Climbing's not a bad way to get there, if you can do it without putting others down in the process.

Sometimes climbing gives us a taste of something beyond our ego. Most of us have experienced flashes of peace and harmony while climbing. When I'm balanced on tiny holds and a lapse in concentration could send me plummeting to unknown consequences, I can't afford to be distracted by mental chatter. The circumstance of climbing brings me absolutely into the present moment. My whole being comes into focus on the problem of ascending stone. In the face of potential struggle for survival, the petty concerns of my little self dare not surface. I feel the power of my real being, integrated and intimate. I have the opportunity to realize that I would be better off without the incessant depressing pep talk of the mind. I start to break the habit of constant associative thinking. Being present and centered in the here and now is a state that is inherently fulfilling. Don't take my word for it, just notice for yourself when you are out on the stone, feeling in the groove! If you find you're having a bad day at the crags, take note of your state of mind. Collect yourself fully and see if things change.

Many sports have enabled people to have peak experiences. Anything that concentrates the mind creates a window for self-discovery. Climbing is an especially potent tool because the apparent risk DEMANDS our concentration. Concentration is not "thinking hard". It’s the focus of all our attention. Learning to focus and act in the face of fear gives us the power to respond when others simply panic. If I were a passenger in a car spinning out on an icy road, I would want a climber at the wheel.

Beside the intense experience of Being realized at peak moments on challenging climbs, the whole immersion in nature soaks us in peace and beauty.
Instead of just walking over the ground, our feet insulated with shoes, we embrace nature with our bare hands, with our whole bodies. By learning to use our body in concert to accomplish improbable moves, we reclaim our natural state of physical wholeness. An unconscious attitude that our arms are accessories for manipulating phones and faxes is replaced by a comfortable and intuitive sense of our physical totality.

When we go climbing, we return to a world undomesticated by artificial routines and pretensions. Most of us get into the habit of sleepily taking our world for granted. Climbing interrupts our usual world. Trees look different from hundreds of feet up. The whole landscape unfolds from a higher vantage point. The change in perspective allows us to have a different view on our lives as well.

When I soloed Zodiac, my second grade VI, in 1982, I was immersed in a week of solitary concentration in the vertical environment. 300 feet from the top I was ravaged by an intense storm that rained and snowed on me until things looked quite grim. Between breaks in the storm, I crept up to the summit and was redeemed! After a week without walking, and without many of the everyday experiences that I took for granted, everything seemed new again. Plants and trees seemed to explode with life. When I removed the rack and walked around unroped, I felt like an astronaut romping in the reduced gravity of the moon! The friends who came to help me carry gear down were magical beings. My heart swelled from feelings of brotherhood. When we reached the car, I felt like we were driving a million miles an hour. I can't even describe the hot food and cold beer. I enjoyed a refreshed experience of everything.


You might find yourself in different ways than I have. Your perspective on the blessings of climbing will be different. I just hope that you look within yourself and find out more about what climbing means to you; what it teaches you. Don't let anyone tell you what climbing "should" be for you! Own it yourself! Maybe you'll find that climbing helps you offer a better person to your whole world. The danger of domestication threatens you and your family. They won't be any happier in a sleepy daily routine either. They may have to find themselves in their own way too, but you can be the example. Take the freedom, fearlessness, and joy from your world of climbing and pass it on.

I discussed this article with a good friend on a climbing trip this weekend. It generated very interesting ideas and conversation amongst us both. We discussed the notion of religion in relation to climbing (this could be an entire thread by itself).

We both agreed that climbing for some people can produce drastic transformations of the spirit. Such as the movement from a "chatty" mind to a mind which is forced into intense concentration and rhythm/centeredness/being. And like you Karl, we both agreed that sports which demand concentration encourage self discovery.

We then began discussing trends/practices in major world religions. These religions in our opinion all seem to be after/chase a similar transformation. The transformation from self-centeredness to selflessness! One mechanism used to attain selflessness is to eradicate the "chatty" mind. As mentioned above this is the same exact thing that climbing helps one achieve.

I guess I am just wondering if it is not entirely possible that climbing (and other intense concentration activities) and spirituality are actually quite related. Both can potentially be used as vehicles for self-discovery, peace, and harmony! Like all good research and creative thought the article Karl wrote has continued to generate more questions within myself, and hopefully everyone else!
-blake

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