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jacques
Apr 25, 2011, 5:29 AM
Post #26 of 51
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"blueeyedclimber wrote: Eddie, Here is some things that I have done when I couldn't do a move/climb. Josh
I agree with Josh and also with those you said to rap from more than one stopper as an anchor. Your life worth more than 100box for a cam.
I will sugest you to think at that question: when is it time to bail? Is it when you are close to your last pro or when you are in trouble? I use the fall factor to avoid to be in trouble. I try to have a fall factor under 0.5 to protect the pro. If my next pro is over the distance of a fall factor of 0.5, I begin to think about bailing...or I place two pro in a row. If my fall factor is under 0.5 and the pro is not as good as i want, I use two pro eqalize togheter with a magic X, In that way, I can avoid dangerous situation where I can kill myself.
Where I learned to climb, there is no rescue. If I was injure in a fall, even my partner didn't have the knowledge to save my ... So, I was more concern about the safety of the rope/pro/sling than in climbing hard. If I can climb 5.10 and I was in a 5.7 run out...I can be in danger. If I am in a 5.9 and I climb safely 5.8, I can have more day and year to increase my fun to climb harder stuff.
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guangzhou
Apr 25, 2011, 7:10 AM
Post #27 of 51
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I am surprised to see no-one mentioning the french free tot he toip of the pitch method. Place gear on pull on it. Aid to the end of the pitch.
if you're in a single pitch area, walk around back and rap to clean your gear. You might also be able to climb the next route over and swing over to get you gear back.
If you have to leave gear permanently, the situation will dictate what and how much you have to leave. I've bailed on routes where I left a single nut and felt fine, I've been on other routes where I set up a three piece anchor and left that behind. (Hurts financially, but my life is worth it.) If I bail and leave gear, chances are it was a trad face climb.
I've been pretty lucky, I have never had to leave a cam behind.
On cracks, I've not have to leave gear because the route was to hard, but I have been known to use my 48inch slings and aid half a pitch because the route was to pitch was to hard to finish.
Most of the time, it's not because the route was to hard, but because some other element has come up. Mostly water. (rain or wet crack) Jack the Ripper at Catharina comes to mind when I think of having to french free because the crack was wet.
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jt512
Apr 25, 2011, 7:28 AM
Post #28 of 51
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jacques wrote: "blueeyedclimber wrote: Eddie, Here is some things that I have done when I couldn't do a move/climb. Josh ¨ I agree with Josh and also with those you said to rap from more than one stopper as an anchor. Your life worth more than 100box for a cam. I will sugest you to think at that question: when is it time to bail? Is it when you are close to your last pro or when you are in trouble? I use the fall factor to avoid to be in trouble. I try to have a fall factor under 0.5 to protect the pro. If my next pro is over the distance of a fall factor of 0.5, I begin to think about bailing...or I place two pro in a row. If my fall factor is under 0.5 and the pro is not as good as i want, I use two pro eqalize togheter with a magic X, In that way, I can avoid dangerous situation where I can kill myself. Where I learned to climb, there is no rescue. If I was injure in a fall, even my partner didn't have the knowledge to save my ... So, I was more concern about the safety of the rope/pro/sling than in climbing hard. If I can climb 5.10 and I was in a 5.7 run out...I can be in danger. If I am in a 5.9 and I climb safely 5.8, I can have more day and year to increase my fun to climb harder stuff.
Jacque, you should stick with posting incomprehensibly. It masks how full of shit you are.
Jay
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guangzhou
Apr 25, 2011, 7:54 AM
Post #29 of 51
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jt512 wrote: jacques wrote: "blueeyedclimber wrote: Eddie, Here is some things that I have done when I couldn't do a move/climb. Josh ¨ I agree with Josh and also with those you said to rap from more than one stopper as an anchor. Your life worth more than 100box for a cam. I will sugest you to think at that question: when is it time to bail? Is it when you are close to your last pro or when you are in trouble? I use the fall factor to avoid to be in trouble. I try to have a fall factor under 0.5 to protect the pro. If my next pro is over the distance of a fall factor of 0.5, I begin to think about bailing...or I place two pro in a row. If my fall factor is under 0.5 and the pro is not as good as i want, I use two pro eqalize togheter with a magic X, In that way, I can avoid dangerous situation where I can kill myself. Where I learned to climb, there is no rescue. If I was injure in a fall, even my partner didn't have the knowledge to save my ... So, I was more concern about the safety of the rope/pro/sling than in climbing hard. If I can climb 5.10 and I was in a 5.7 run out...I can be in danger. If I am in a 5.9 and I climb safely 5.8, I can have more day and year to increase my fun to climb harder stuff. Jacque, you should stick with posting incomprehensibly. It masks how full of shit you are. Jay
Fall factor calculations while climbing, wow. So after every move you rework the equation in your head. Am zing, I wonder how you can think about the next move while you're solving all that math.
Me, I take the risk into consideration, another words, will I hit anything is I fall while doing these moves. Yes, I try to protect again, no I go for it.
If the give is well placed, I doubt I ever generate abig enough fall to break the gear, so fall factor is irelevant.
if the placement is poor because of rock, shape, feature or for what ever other countless reasons, I consider how to make the route safer. If I can, I do, if I can't, I consider whether the risk, the chances of falling, and the route are worth it. Sometime, I take the risk, sometimes I don't. (I tend of err on the side of caution most of the time. Especially in South East Asia where the nearest reliable hospital is a flight away most times.
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blueeyedclimber
Apr 25, 2011, 11:56 AM
Post #30 of 51
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guangzhou wrote: I am surprised to see no-one mentioning the french free tot he toip of the pitch method. Place gear on pull on it. Aid to the end of the pitch.
blueeyedclimber wrote: Aided past the harder section (if you do not know how to or even what aid climbing is, then learn. This VERY useful skill can mean the difference between "No big deal" and a "Major Epic.")
Josh
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xtrmecat
Apr 25, 2011, 2:57 PM
Post #31 of 51
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Fast Eddie, I think the most important thing you should know, that you are not trad climbing. That would be to walk up to something and climb it without falling, resting on your gear, or retreat. Yoyo style has been accepted. Bolts are even accepted on some trad, but placed on lead.
Learning to climb on gear isn't trad, it is learning to climb on gear. Whole different topic. Your question about climbing on gear has been asked and answered. Calling gear leads trad in this instance, is ignorance of climbing altogether. Many here see it as synonymous, it is not.
Burly Bob
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blueeyedclimber
Apr 25, 2011, 3:18 PM
Post #32 of 51
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xtrmecat wrote: Fast Eddie, I think the most important thing you should know, that you are not trad climbing. That would be to walk up to something and climb it without falling, resting on your gear, or retreat. Yoyo style has been accepted. Bolts are even accepted on some trad, but placed on lead. Learning to climb on gear isn't trad, it is learning to climb on gear. Whole different topic. Your question about climbing on gear has been asked and answered. Calling gear leads trad in this instance, is ignorance of climbing altogether. Many here see it as synonymous, it is not. Burly Bob
*yawn*
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cracklover
Apr 25, 2011, 3:45 PM
Post #35 of 51
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xtrmecat wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: *yawn* Say the guy who gives advice, on something using the wrong terminology, and tries to save face. Burly Bob 
What?
GO
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notapplicable
Apr 25, 2011, 4:02 PM
Post #36 of 51
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Registered: Aug 31, 2006
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blueeyedclimber wrote: xtrmecat wrote: Fast Eddie, I think the most important thing you should know, that you are not trad climbing. That would be to walk up to something and climb it without falling, resting on your gear, or retreat. Yoyo style has been accepted. Bolts are even accepted on some trad, but placed on lead. Learning to climb on gear isn't trad, it is learning to climb on gear. Whole different topic. Your question about climbing on gear has been asked and answered. Calling gear leads trad in this instance, is ignorance of climbing altogether. Many here see it as synonymous, it is not. Burly Bob *yawn*
Not only is it yawntastic, it's inaccurate.
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notapplicable
Apr 25, 2011, 4:09 PM
Post #37 of 51
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The only other thing I want to add (and this is VERY IMPORTANT) is that when you do bail on gear, you should always inform the community via. the The booty locator
It will greatly expedite the recovery of your gear.
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blueeyedclimber
Apr 25, 2011, 6:41 PM
Post #38 of 51
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xtrmecat wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: *yawn* Say the guy who gives advice, on something using the wrong terminology, and tries to save face. Burly Bob
Oh boy
There are still a few of you clinging on to outdated terminology. 99.9% of the people when using the term "trad" imply either climbing on gear, climbing at "trad" areas, or climbing on routes that were put up in traditional style. Almost no one implies that if they say the word "trad" that they are putting up FA's ground up, and no one thinks they do (except for you). Terminology adapts to the masses. It makes communication much easier.
Now, I don't want to take anything away from the people climbing how you define trad. If you want to get into a discussion about the true essence of trad, then hell, i may even side with you. BUT, bringing that discussion into a thread like this will only get you an eye roll, because it's a tired argument and no one gives a crap.
Now, do you have any advice for the young man?
Josh
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marc801
Apr 25, 2011, 7:22 PM
Post #39 of 51
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jacques wrote: I use the fall factor to avoid to be in trouble. I try to have a fall factor under 0.5 to protect the pro. If my next pro is over the distance of a fall factor of 0.5, I begin to think about bailing...or I place two pro in a row. If my fall factor is under 0.5 and the pro is not as good as i want, I use two pro eqalize togheter with a magic X, In that way, I can avoid dangerous situation where I can kill myself.
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marc801
Apr 25, 2011, 7:28 PM
Post #40 of 51
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sungam wrote: climboard wrote: At this point in your trad climbing career you shouldn't be on anything near hard enough to shut you down. When it comes to starting trad, surprises happen - generally in the form of route finding errors.
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guangzhou
Apr 26, 2011, 12:08 AM
Post #41 of 51
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notapplicable wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: xtrmecat wrote: Fast Eddie, I think the most important thing you should know, that you are not trad climbing. That would be to walk up to something and climb it without falling, resting on your gear, or retreat. Yoyo style has been accepted. Bolts are even accepted on some trad, but placed on lead. Learning to climb on gear isn't trad, it is learning to climb on gear. Whole different topic. Your question about climbing on gear has been asked and answered. Calling gear leads trad in this instance, is ignorance of climbing altogether. Many here see it as synonymous, it is not. Burly Bob *yawn* Not only is it yawntastic, it's inaccurate.
What a croak of SH&^%$.
If you're placing gear, you're trad climbing. If you have to work a route you're placing gear on, you're still trad climbing.
(This post was edited by guangzhou on Apr 26, 2011, 12:10 AM)
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jacques
Apr 26, 2011, 1:07 AM
Post #42 of 51
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marc801 wrote: Have you forgotten already that in the other thread of gibberish that you started, a number of people pointed out how ridiculous and unworkable this "technique" of yours is in actual practice?
No, I don't
Actually, as many other climber who learned with the ethic of trad climbing, I don't calculate the fall factor. I had enought experience to make the evaluation visually without math. Looked at leaders older than 40 and they will place there pro pratically at the same place in a same route. Look at sport climbers and they will place pro at different place from each other.
For a beginer, someone who don't have the chance to climb at each week end, it is a good starting point to have a kind of evaluation to take decision.
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billl7
Apr 26, 2011, 1:12 AM
Post #43 of 51
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guangzhou wrote: notapplicable wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: xtrmecat wrote: Fast Eddie, I think the most important thing you should know, that you are not trad climbing. That would be to walk up to something and climb it without falling, resting on your gear, or retreat. Yoyo style has been accepted. Bolts are even accepted on some trad, but placed on lead. Learning to climb on gear isn't trad, it is learning to climb on gear. Whole different topic. Your question about climbing on gear has been asked and answered. Calling gear leads trad in this instance, is ignorance of climbing altogether. Many here see it as synonymous, it is not. Burly Bob *yawn* Not only is it yawntastic, it's inaccurate. What a croak of SH&^%$. If you're placing gear, you're trad climbing. If you have to work a route you're placing gear on, you're still trad climbing.
There is one exception to that, sir. If you have one or more SLCDs on your rack then you are NOT trad climbing.
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guangzhou
Apr 26, 2011, 1:24 AM
Post #44 of 51
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jacques wrote: marc801 wrote: Have you forgotten already that in the other thread of gibberish that you started, a number of people pointed out how ridiculous and unworkable this "technique" of yours is in actual practice? No, I don't Actually, as many other climber who learned with the ethic of trad climbing, I don't calculate the fall factor. I had enought experience to make the evaluation visually without math. Looked at leaders older than 40 and they will place there pro pratically at the same place in a same route. Look at sport climbers and they will place pro at different place from each other. For a beginer, someone who don't have the chance to climb at each week end, it is a good starting point to have a kind of evaluation to take decision.
I have to wonder, do you actually believe the crap you write.
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esander4
Apr 26, 2011, 2:07 AM
Post #45 of 51
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notapplicable wrote: HippieLettuce wrote: I think before you go any farther in your climbing career you should work on your analytical problem solving. There is no get out of jail free card in climbing, people often seem to forget that. Ah yes. Certainly the best course of action (especially when death is on the line) is to make things up for yourself, instead of learning the lessons of those who have gone before.
Sarcasm: a dish best served cold
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dugl33
Apr 26, 2011, 2:21 AM
Post #46 of 51
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If you have a separate tag line you can use this to rap from your high point. Your belayer keeps you on belay on the lead line and takes out the slack as you come down. This allows you to clean your gear on the way down, and if that piece of gear you're rapping on pulls you take a normal distance lead fall.
Assuming I set good pro on the way up, using this method I would rap off of something much less bomber than I otherwise would ever consider -- old fixed pin, single nut, webbing knot in a crack, whatever. Learn to rap smoothly without bouncing. Be careful to not lever outward on the nut when you are starting your rap.
Learn as many tricks as you can for getting up, and down, safely so you have some options when the going gets rough.
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bearbreeder
Apr 26, 2011, 3:23 AM
Post #47 of 51
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thats where nutcraft and tricams become invaluable ... much cheaper to bail on
i bought some used BD nuts for like $2 each just for that purpose ... you can find cheap nuts used for hella cheap ... same with biners ... as long as the crack will fit the nuts, it wont cost me more than $8 or so to bail off a climb with a 2 point anchor
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jacques
Apr 26, 2011, 2:17 PM
Post #48 of 51
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guangzhou wrote: jacques wrote: marc801 wrote: Have you forgotten already that in the other thread of gibberish that you started, a number of people pointed out how ridiculous and unworkable this "technique" of yours is in actual practice? No, I don't Actually, as many other climber who learned with the ethic of trad climbing, I don't calculate the fall factor. I had enought experience to make the evaluation visually without math. Looked at leaders older than 40 and they will place there pro pratically at the same place in a same route. Look at sport climbers and they will place pro at different place from each other. For a beginer, someone who don't have the chance to climb at each week end, it is a good starting point to have a kind of evaluation to take decision. I have to wonder, do you actually believe the crap you write.
Just take a seat in front of recompense in a buzy day. Draw a theorical pro placement in a sheet of paper and ask the climber if they trad or sport. You will know if it is crap or reality.
On easy ground, where a fall is dangerous: no pro
In expose situation, where one two or three pro do the same job as one, some put four.
In my mind: First I evaluate a theorical distance (and I can evaluate the distance because I did my homewor)
Second, I evaluate the danger of a fall between my theorical pro placement.
It is my 0.02c
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johnwesely
Apr 26, 2011, 2:32 PM
Post #49 of 51
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jacques wrote: guangzhou wrote: jacques wrote: marc801 wrote: Have you forgotten already that in the other thread of gibberish that you started, a number of people pointed out how ridiculous and unworkable this "technique" of yours is in actual practice? No, I don't Actually, as many other climber who learned with the ethic of trad climbing, I don't calculate the fall factor. I had enought experience to make the evaluation visually without math. Looked at leaders older than 40 and they will place there pro pratically at the same place in a same route. Look at sport climbers and they will place pro at different place from each other. For a beginer, someone who don't have the chance to climb at each week end, it is a good starting point to have a kind of evaluation to take decision. I have to wonder, do you actually believe the crap you write. Just take a seat in front of recompense in a buzy day. Draw a theorical pro placement in a sheet of paper and ask the climber if they trad or sport. You will know if it is crap or reality. On easy ground, where a fall is dangerous: no pro In expose situation, where one two or three pro do the same job as one, some put four. In my mind: First I evaluate a theorical distance (and I can evaluate the distance because I did my homewor) Second, I evaluate the danger of a fall between my theorical pro placement. It is my 0.02c
You do realize that 2% of a single cent is not worth jack?
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viciado
Apr 27, 2011, 10:00 AM
Post #50 of 51
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Are you saying Jaques = Jack?
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