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swede
Jan 3, 2008, 12:26 PM
Post #51 of 56
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Registered: Dec 1, 2003
Posts: 133
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livinonasandbar wrote: An additional thought on this matter: I wonder if any tests have been conducted to compare the integrity of "dressed" knots with that of loosely tied knots?
Test has been conducted and well dressed knots are preferable. I donīt have any reference handy.
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wanderlustmd
Jan 8, 2008, 8:23 PM
Post #53 of 56
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Registered: Oct 24, 2006
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rgold wrote: Here is yet another slow-pull test of a clove hitch in dynamic rope. Note that these particular "myth busters" appear to consider a single test conclusive and also seem unaware of the emerging difference between static and dynamic loading. (The author of the site lays claim to research and testing experience without actually specifying any of it.) One wonders whether the 5" of what I'd call "tightening" is what Fox called "slipping" in those now mysterious tests that seem to have started all this. The tightening effect absorbs fall energy and so might be seen as a benefit rather than a drawback. Such effects are just as much a feature of the figure-8 and should not be viewed as an anomaly associated only with the clove hitch.
Good point. "Slippage" as force absorbtion could indeed be a good thing.
All other things being equal, I prefer the eight. I like a good, hardy "foolproof" knot as my attachment to the anchor. Although, recently, there have been a few times that I wish I could have the adjustment that comes with a clove hitch, but overall I don't move around much at belays, or at least not enough to warrent such a connection. And I've never had trouble untying an eight on a bight, even after hanging on it. The eight as a clove hitch backup seems overkill, but there's no real harm in it, I suppose. Might be the best of both worlds after all.
When you're splitting hairs, such as backing up a clove or eight tie in, the answer I'll give is (suprise) "maybe, maybe not." At the top of a single pitch, 90-foot route, probably not. 4000 feet off the deck, my backups would have backups.
Reno had a good point as well. I've connected in multiple ways to various anchors over the years. In terms of rigging, it's all relative to what you have to work with, what you are comfortable with, and what is practical. It's hard to anchor in with the rope while rapping, for example. Probably not completely impossible, but more of a pain than I'd deal with. Given that, as a general rule, I try to make sure to use a redundant point of attachment if I'm not using a rope tie in, such as when rapping. Two slings, two daisies, what have you. Even when tied in to a powerpoint, sometimes I clove to a bomber piece as an afterthought, just for the sake of it. As Jay said, as you long as you don't get crazy, you aren't hurting anything.
I think most can agree that Long has a point with the psychological influence on anchoring (and everything else). Do what makes you feel safe, provided that it actually is safe and you aren't building a ridiculous amount of unnecessary overkill into a given system.
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tradrenn
Apr 25, 2009, 1:00 AM
Post #55 of 56
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Registered: Jan 16, 2005
Posts: 2990
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