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kalcario
Apr 28, 2004, 5:28 AM
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I think all climbers (including me) respect bouldering - as a sideline. Just being a boulderer, however, gets you no respect in this sport. Even John Sherman has done hard El Cap aid routes and the North Face of the Eiger. If you told him back in the 80's that by popularizing Hueco Tanks and coming up with the v-system of grading boulders he would be doing more to dumb down American climbing than sport climbing ever would, I wonder how he would have reacted. He wanted to kill off sport climbing by promoting bouldering - problem is he killed off trad climbing too, at least as far as the current generation of young climbers is concerned, and now we're way more of a laughing stock than the Euros he used to make fun of. Just goes to show you what hatred and bigotry will get you.
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climbsomething
Apr 28, 2004, 5:35 AM
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In reply to: I think bouldering is a more social sport. I personally don't boulder much because it doesn't feel like climbing to me. I use it occasionally to train but its not my main squeeze. Ive been climbing for about 4 years and im only 17. Ive climbed top rope, sport, trad and attempted a big wall ALL AT MY OWN EXPENCE!!! I got a job, worked hard at it and now im swimming in climbing gear and ive climbed all over the US. Im drifting again, anyways the fear of letting go disapears with bouldering. You need to be scared or atleast be at high risk to have fun with climbing, like on trad. Who knows if that last piece will hold a fall. I don't like the security of being able to fall and land on a nice firm pad, thats too easy. And climbing isn't climbing, if your not willing to risk it and take it beyond the ground (or 5 or ten feet up) you may as well find a new passion or don't consider yourself a climber. I call my self a rock climber, and i dont' think people who just boulder can say that. You climb around rocks, i climb up them. Maybe boulder dudes are just scared of heights, or scared of getting hurt. Exception-- mega high balls are nuts, i give them props, that takes balls. |
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climbsomething
Apr 28, 2004, 5:38 AM
Post #53 of 100
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In reply to: so this topic is dead horse, but.... here's 2 more kicks or cents. I've been looking at forums (at rc.com and elsewhere) and have noticed this behaviour. while everyone is under the same banner (rock climber e.g) sub sections and sects are formed (trad or sport or boulder etc.) each sworn to the superiority of there particular brand. we'll liken this to toothpaste now. crest=trad. colgate=sport. arm and hammer=aid. aquafresh=bouldering.Is it crest vs colgate vs arm and hammer vs aquafresh.now do the all not serve the same purpose, to keep the teeth fresh, clean and free of decay? And do I NEED an ionic brush to achive the standard of cleanliness? if I haven't tried your toothpaste am I at odds against you? is it ok to share toothbrushes? isn't aquafresh neat with its tri colors. Is not the cleaning power of baking soda wonderful. Does not colgate keep the gums healthy. Are not the fun sparkles of special edition spongebob Crest not refreshing? if it is a rock do you not climb it? I personally use jason healthy mouth. It is the only toothpaste, all others lead to low sperm count and astigmatism. :wink: |
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coldclimb
Apr 28, 2004, 8:05 AM
Post #54 of 100
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Sheesh people.
I climb.
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micahmcguire
Apr 28, 2004, 9:53 AM
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bouldering is cheap. sport is pricey. trad costs a fortune. maybe that's the incentive (or lack thereof).
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flashsixteen
Apr 28, 2004, 12:56 PM
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I think it is because rock climbing is becoming the "in" thing to do and people who really wouldn't give it a second chance if it wasn't a fad, do the safest form of climbing. That is at least what I am noticing by me.
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bishop
Apr 28, 2004, 1:17 PM
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let them boulder.... keeps them off our routes!
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euphoriagtrst
Apr 28, 2004, 1:40 PM
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Has anyone ever noticed how much less spraying there is when you get more than a pitch off the ground.....?
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lambchop
Apr 28, 2004, 3:52 PM
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Bouldering appears to be more communal and interactive than sport climbing. With sport/trad you are kinda stuck with your partner for the duration of that climb and if it turns into a minor epic then you gotta hope they got patience. Bouldering does not really require that kind of partner commitment (of course encouragement from friends is always a plus point). You can also possibly get through more routes in a day bouldering.
So I guess my take is patience and attention span, neither of which kids are traditionally reknowned for. I blame it on McDonalds :)
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wyattwyattwyatt
Apr 28, 2004, 4:36 PM
Post #60 of 100
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kalcario, what is the source of your rage against bouldering? i've seen so many of your posts where u sound so bitter. seriously, i'm really curious. is it the groups of young people socializing? were u beaten up by a boulderer once? i'm just struggling to understand why one would have such anger against another form of climbing.
obviously, different forms of climbing have various pros and cons and different aspects to them that contribute to why one likes it best. being high up provides a thrill and forces one to be mentally tough and focus. but then again, if you're bouldering alone or with a questionable spot, ive found it can be just as scary. because if u fall, u WILL get hurt. no rope to catch u. granted, when u're climbing u dont want to fall on gear, but if u REALLY thought it wouldnt hold u, i doubt u would be up there in the first place.
but put that aside for the moment (i just wanted to emphasize that bouldering is not without its share of adrenalin rush); obviously there is more of a risk of death in climbing. but so what? maybe that is not the aspect of climbing that attracts one the most. if one is attracted to climbing by the desire to work hard, painful moves and focus on the technical aspect of climbing, then bouldering makes perfect sense -- u get to work on the crux right away, without climbing up to it! what better way to hone one's skills? john long himself recommends bouldering for this very reason.
true, there are elements of climbing that are absent from bouldering (skill in managing and using your gear properly, or the death factor as i mentioned above), but there are also elements that are found in bouldering that are absent from climbing. for example, what could be more fun than hanging out with your friends and taking turns spotting eachother and working a problem?
they are simply different forms of climbing. so what is your motivation in trashing bouldering so much?
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mcwop
Apr 28, 2004, 4:39 PM
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I'm 36 and climbing for just under a year. Started on top rope, then tried bouldering. I like bouldering best because of the limited equipment and rope-free feel. Additional positives are climbing the overhangs, focus on body position, and the dynamic moves. I am now learning to sport climb. It's all good, but people will have preferences.
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maww
Apr 28, 2004, 5:53 PM
Post #62 of 100
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I agree mcwop - I've only been climbing in the gym for around 2 months and I started top-roping. I switched to bouldering to learn better technique and build up some endurance. It's easier as I don't have to count on a belayer. I prefer vertical for sure but at this stage in my climbing, bouldering seems to be greatly improving my technique. But that's just what works for me! :wink:
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clausti
Apr 5, 2005, 1:11 AM
Post #63 of 100
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as far as bouldering being cheap goes....
you do know that teenagers [15-18, high school kids, specifically] have the largest disposable income of any demographic in this country?
disposable income= you can spend it on whatever you want. its not rent money, its not groceries, car payment, medicine or gas to get to work.
mocha, 4$. cigarettes, 3-5$. CD, 17$. movie ticket, 8$.
just as a sample. i knew plenty of kids in HS that *DID* pay for their own cars. which is more than even a full trad rack. i personally wrecked one of my parents' cars, and had to pay the insurance deductable, thus, the first job of my life. $500 bucks. it took me two months to pay off, only because i spent money on a lot of other stuff, too. and i worked minimum wage, at Sonic drive in. [no i didnt rollar skate, i worked the drive-thu.]
i guess my rant is partially driven by a frustration with college teenagers, my sometime climbing partners, who talk a lot of shit about wanting to go outside and climb, then bitch endlessly about paying for gas. "i'm broke." this is because you don't have a job. if you were willing to work any kind of stupid job at all you'd have *some* money.
bouldering is highly social. its also pretty fun. its also what happens to be in season during the school year. also known as the time when everyone is in town and its easiest to get a hold of your freinds? remember that one?
that being said, you shouldn't trash and genre of climbing, especially if you've never tried it. that includes both bouldering and trad, miraculously enough.
-cla
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ikefromla
Apr 5, 2005, 1:28 AM
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i am mostly a sport climber. own a rack.. i also own a crashpad. i am 19.
just because lots of young kids boulder hard and boulder a lot does not mean that they won't pursue other aspects of the sport eventually. they enjoy doing hard moves. does it get my rocks off? not like climbing a challenging route, no.. not like gazing out fromt he top of a challenging trad pitch, but it's still climbing....
who the fuck am i kidding?
this post is going nowhere...
rope up, don't, whatever.
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obe
Apr 5, 2005, 1:49 AM
Post #65 of 100
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It is cool and fine with me that they love bouldering. But, they must not love climbing altogether if you say you will not go to a school sponsered J-Tree trip if they are not going to mainly boulder. Even if your preference is bouldering, it woudn't hurt ropeing up every once in a while. :D
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8flood8
Apr 5, 2005, 1:54 AM
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i have a fatty crashpad and sport gear. i prefer ropes to no ropes tho.
oh im 27
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climbinginchico
Apr 5, 2005, 1:55 AM
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For all those who only boulder, it's one less person to clog up the trad routes I'll be climbing. :wink:
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gremlin
Apr 5, 2005, 2:32 AM
Post #68 of 100
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Having just gotten back from buildering on campus, I can definitely say I prefer roping up to bouldering, but given the choice between bouldering and sitting on my ass, I'd go boulder every single time. But if I'm in the Alabama area for more than a day, I'll spend a day at Sandrock roping, and a day at HP40 bouldering. It's all climbing, and it all kicks ass. That said, I think the kids who wouldn't go on the trip since it has limited/no bouldering (a year ago) missed out, but it was their choice to make.
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alpinerock
Apr 5, 2005, 2:39 AM
Post #69 of 100
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I've always been a route climber, bouldering is just training even if i'm better at it, nowdays almost the only times i boulder outside is after i knock off 10 or so pitches of trad in LCC.
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gunksgoer
Apr 5, 2005, 2:45 AM
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bouldering seems to be almost like skateboarding for many kids; lots of adrenaline, hard work, and some danger are all thrown into the mix. it is true that not many younger people want to bother with trad, but hey, i do. its my favorite form of climbing.
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petsfed
Apr 5, 2005, 2:49 AM
Post #71 of 100
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In reply to: as far as bouldering being cheap goes.... you do know that teenagers [15-18, high school kids, specifically] have the largest disposable income of any demographic in this country? disposable income= you can spend it on whatever you want. its not rent money, its not groceries, car payment, medicine or gas to get to work. mocha, 4$. cigarettes, 3-5$. CD, 17$. movie ticket, 8$. just as a sample. i knew plenty of kids in HS that *DID* pay for their own cars. which is more than even a full trad rack. i personally wrecked one of my parents' cars, and had to pay the insurance deductable, thus, the first job of my life. $500 bucks. it took me two months to pay off, only because i spent money on a lot of other stuff, too. and i worked minimum wage, at Sonic drive in. [no i didnt rollar skate, i worked the drive-thu.] i guess my rant is partially driven by a frustration with college teenagers, my sometime climbing partners, who talk a lot of s--- about wanting to go outside and climb, then b---- endlessly about paying for gas. "i'm broke." this is because you don't have a job. if you were willing to work any kind of stupid job at all you'd have *some* money. bouldering is highly social. its also pretty fun. its also what happens to be in season during the school year. also known as the time when everyone is in town and its easiest to get a hold of your freinds? remember that one? that being said, you shouldn't trash and genre of climbing, especially if you've never tried it. that includes both bouldering and trad, miraculously enough. -cla
Almost a year to date since this thread died. Wow.
Couple of points:
1) I have a cush job. I really do. Make my own hours, good pay, so on and so forth. Only downside is that I'm limited in total hours and hours of the day. Rent saps me terribly. Same with electricity and natural gas. I barely make ends meet right now. When I bought most all of my gear, I was living in the dorms, so I could spend a lot of my money. Now I can't. If I want to buy more gear, i have to work, hard, on the weekends because one cannot reasonably take quantum mechanics and newtonian & lagrangian mechanics, and hold down a full time job. So my climbing time is shot because I'm (surprise) paying for the gear. Its circular. As such, bouldering is incredibly attractive. The only reason I don't boulder is because I've got all this stuff for trad climbing, and no pad. Ironic isn't it?
2) Let the boulderers proliferate. I don't care. I rolled up to Vedauwoo yesterday to see the lot full. "Ah crap, I'm gonna have to wait in line" Only ran into one other party roping up. 20+ cars, all bouldering. It was a good day. Let 'em come, leaves the long stuff for me.
3) Is it really trad climbers ripping on boulderers? I don't think so. Its weaker climbers ripping on stronger climbers. That's all. Get strong, show the boulderers that staying on pebbles all the time is harming their climbing, then spew. Until then, STFU.
/part time highballer, soloist, trad climber, 12+ sport projector, aid climber, alpinist
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sick_climba
Apr 5, 2005, 2:59 AM
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In reply to: I really dig athletic, gymnastic movement over heights or endurance pump-fest action. |
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alpinerockfiend
Apr 5, 2005, 3:30 AM
Post #73 of 100
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From what I've read, a lot of trad & sport climbers have been stressing the fact that more boulderers=less crowds at sport and trad crags. You (including the original poster) seem to be missing a key implication of the "problem".
It's awesome have crags to yourself as more and more are attracted to the easy logistics of bouldering. Hell, if we take enough of an elitist and unwelcoming approach to our own forms of climbing, we might even stop ALL future boulderers from wanting to diversify their climbing experience. Then we'd never have to worry about a crowd, right?
Sure, especially when our favorite climbing area is closed due to a lack of anyone trying to stop it. Remember the maxim of "strength in numbers". Take a look at what's happening to Devil's Tower as we speak. Here's a link to an informative post: http://www.rockclimbing.com/...wtopic.php?p=1052933. The proposed bill could effectively eliminate climbing on Devil's Tower, one of the most famous crack climbing areas in the States (or the world for that matter).
So essentially what I"m saying is this: There may be some boulderers out there who maintain an elitist attitude towards their form of climbing, but an unwelcoming attitude from other climbers (i.e. those who are saying, "more boulderers=less crowds) only helps to perpetuate their elitism. Instead of reveling in the lack of crowds, talk a commited boulderer into climbing with you at your favorite trad or sport crag. Strength in numbers.
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jbone
Apr 5, 2005, 5:58 AM
Post #74 of 100
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Registered: Jul 30, 2002
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Seriously, Forget every other post you have read and stop here cause I got your Answer..
Bouldering is more Pure than any other style of climbing. Bouldering is about the freedom of climbing on stone without being hindered by gear or another person. Bouldering will overtake your rope crags, John Bachar already did it to J Tree. Eventually the height limitations that are inherently percieved in bouldering will dissolve and bouldering will be defined as any form of climbing that does not involve "life support", i.e. rope, gear, bolts, belayers, etc, but does not result in certain death upon failure..
What Chris did with Klem in the Med, deep water soling, last year is the re-birth of this philosophy. Granted it will take up to 5-8 years before it becomes acceptable to the mainstream but it's alreay happening and you can do nothing about it. Remember the issue's that came up when Jason Kehl bouldered Eviloution, and the Fly. Made everyone redefine the concept of bouldering again. Well it's happening again everyday now.
It's not suprising that Kids recognize this the easiest, they are un-tainted by the preconceptions of the past. They are fresh and willing participants in our useless endevours of stone. It only adds greater proof that there is something in bouldering that you can only truly experience when climbing unhindered.
Untie from that rope and there will be no more lies...
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ocean
Dec 20, 2005, 6:59 PM
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Jbone said it best. pure.
Props
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