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blueeyedclimber
Sep 24, 2008, 12:28 PM
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This might belong in the beginner's thread, but I see "experienced" climbers do this to. If you cannot see the path of the rope and know that it is clear, DO NOT throw it. Yelling "ROPE" does not always work and sometimes (especially if you are beneath a roof), it is hard to hear it at all, nevermind where it's coming from. I saw (or heard) two instances this weekend where a rope was nearly thrown on a leader and a rope was thrown into a group at the base.
If you lower and it gets stuck on a ledge, it is very easy to deal with that on your way down.
If you throw a rope on me when I am leading, we will have some words exchanged, believe me.
So, either lower or stack the rope and feed out as you go.
Any questions?
Josh
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epoch
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Sep 24, 2008, 12:41 PM
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That's why I usually wait for the "ok" response after I yell rope. If not I'll either flake it on a sling, bag it, or lower it off.
That situation always sucks.
Though when done in jest with friends, the results can be somewhat entertaining.
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blueeyedclimber
Sep 24, 2008, 12:46 PM
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epoch wrote: That's why I usually wait for the "ok" response after I yell rope. If not I'll either flake it on a sling, bag it, or lower it off. That situation always sucks. Though when done in jest with friends, the results can be somewhat entertaining.
My point is, though, that sometimes you can't tell where it's coming from. I climb in the GUnks a lot, and with those roofs, It can be very hard to shout loud enough for someone at the bottom (or someone on lead) to hear, or know where it's coming from.
The problem isn't that climbers throw ropes, the problem is that they don't know when they shouldn't.
At the GUnks, I always lower unless I can see the entire path of the rope.
Josh
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socalclimber
Sep 24, 2008, 1:39 PM
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It amazes me how often people don't think about this. The next time this happens, you should just pull their rope and let them think about it for a while. Maybe they can hitch a rap from you on your way down
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lwilson
Sep 24, 2008, 1:43 PM
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good points Josh, I will be thinking about that next time I am at the Gunks.
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jaablink
Sep 24, 2008, 2:15 PM
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I sometimes carry a small OR stuff sack with a lightweight mesh rope bag I modified myself I clip the rope bag to s sling hang it from my harness and feed rite from the bag. This depends on where I am climbing of course. At the Gunks there are people most of the time so I use this method most.
Sometimes I hear the call for rope with the name of rout it is coming off of. Many of the times I do not. I have seen far worse than that there. People dropping rocks and not yelling ROCK!!! Or any kind of warning. I do wait to have words with those people.
Someone dropped a set of stoppers on the climb next to us , they hit the leader of the team below them. We were chatting with the second team later on that day .He said returned the stoppers to the climber who dropped them and he did not even say he was sorry or ask if he was got hurt...nothing…
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sungam
Sep 24, 2008, 2:44 PM
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blueeyedclimber wrote: This might belong in the beginner's thread, but I see "experienced" climbers do this to. If you cannot see the path of the rope and know that it is clear, DO NOT throw it. Yelling "ROPE" does not always work and sometimes (especially if you are beneath a roof), it is hard to hear it at all, nevermind where it's coming from. I saw (or heard) two instances this weekend where a rope was nearly thrown on a leader and a rope was thrown into a group at the base. If you lower and it gets stuck on a ledge, it is very easy to deal with that on your way down.
If you throw a rope on me when I am leading, we will have some words exchanged, believe me.
So, either lower or stack the rope and feed out as you go. Any questions? Josh
(How the fuck did I spell "maneuvers" right the first try? I'm getting good at this.)
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sungam
Sep 24, 2008, 2:44 PM
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sgreer wrote: In reply to: The next time this happens, you should just pull their rope Or give them a firemans belay as they rap. Stop them in a position where you can lecture them. 
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mattb1921
Sep 24, 2008, 2:53 PM
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This drives me crazy as well. Leading up a hard route and having to deal with getting untangled out of someones rope.
Luckily where I climb it tends to be pretty windy so you have to lower or use a bag unless you like tangled messes.
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dingus
Sep 24, 2008, 3:00 PM
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blueeyedclimber wrote: This might belong in the beginner's thread, but I see "experienced" climbers do this to. If you cannot see the path of the rope and know that it is clear, DO NOT throw it. Yelling "ROPE" does not always work and sometimes (especially if you are beneath a roof), it is hard to hear it at all, nevermind where it's coming from. I saw (or heard) two instances this weekend where a rope was nearly thrown on a leader and a rope was thrown into a group at the base. If you lower and it gets stuck on a ledge, it is very easy to deal with that on your way down. If you throw a rope on me when I am leading, we will have some words exchanged, believe me. So, either lower or stack the rope and feed out as you go. Any questions? Josh
No, no questions. I'll pass though.
I'll continue to toss my rope after a suitable 'comment period' after the rope call. Lowering means the rope WILL get caught up and tangled on MOST raps. Fuck that. Rapping is scary enough without having to deal with tangled ropes every time.
Don't worry hoss, I ain't never tossed no rope on no climbers no how.
But if you want to have words with me anyway.... have at it!
Cheers
DMT
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markc
Sep 24, 2008, 3:14 PM
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This seems pretty context-specific. A number of the rappels at Seneca are blocky, and you can usually get a good view of the route below if you bother to check. Carrying the line down with you could work, but lowering it on some just guarantees you're going to be clearing it off a lot of ledges. I'd rather chuck it and get it down there quickly than do it piecemeal. More than hard and fast guidelines, I'd emphasize proper etiquette and having more than one technique in your bag of tricks.
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chris
Sep 24, 2008, 5:43 PM
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markc wrote: This seems pretty context-specific. A number of the rappels at Seneca are blocky, and you can usually get a good view of the route below if you bother to check. Carrying the line down with you could work, but lowering it on some just guarantees you're going to be clearing it off a lot of ledges. I'd rather chuck it and get it down there quickly than do it piecemeal. More than hard and fast guidelines, I'd emphasize proper etiquette and having more than one technique in your bag of tricks.
But I know the Gunks are special. 
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kennoyce
Sep 24, 2008, 5:50 PM
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I completly agree. I think that this must be a gunks specific problem. I have climbed all over the western US and don't think I have ever had a rope thrown on me either while leading, or just standing at the base. I also agree that lowering a rope most of the time just creates problems. I guess I will have to go to the gunks sometime to completly understand this.
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boadman
Sep 24, 2008, 6:17 PM
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blueeyedclimber wrote: This might belong in the beginner's thread, but I see "experienced" climbers do this to. If you cannot see the path of the rope and know that it is clear, DO NOT throw it. Yelling "ROPE" does not always work and sometimes (especially if you are beneath a roof), it is hard to hear it at all, nevermind where it's coming from. I saw (or heard) two instances this weekend where a rope was nearly thrown on a leader and a rope was thrown into a group at the base. If you lower and it gets stuck on a ledge, it is very easy to deal with that on your way down. If you throw a rope on me when I am leading, we will have some words exchanged, believe me. So, either lower or stack the rope and feed out as you go. Any questions? Josh
I'm glad that you're so considerate, but I'm still going to toss my rope after giving suitable warning. Stacking the rope is a big pain in my ass, and lowering the rope is a great way to get it tied in knots. I think the issue might be that you climb at an extremely crowded area that may just be the center of the noob universe.
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blueeyedclimber
Sep 24, 2008, 7:34 PM
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boadman wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: This might belong in the beginner's thread, but I see "experienced" climbers do this to. If you cannot see the path of the rope and know that it is clear, DO NOT throw it. Yelling "ROPE" does not always work and sometimes (especially if you are beneath a roof), it is hard to hear it at all, nevermind where it's coming from. I saw (or heard) two instances this weekend where a rope was nearly thrown on a leader and a rope was thrown into a group at the base. If you lower and it gets stuck on a ledge, it is very easy to deal with that on your way down. If you throw a rope on me when I am leading, we will have some words exchanged, believe me. So, either lower or stack the rope and feed out as you go. Any questions? Josh I'm glad that you're so considerate, but I'm still going to toss my rope after giving suitable warning. Stacking the rope is a big pain in my ass, and lowering the rope is a great way to get it tied in knots. I think the issue might be that you climb at an extremely crowded area that may just be the center of the noob universe.
I am actually responding to a few of you, not just boadman.
1) This is situation dependent, but works a large percentage of the time. It just so happens that in the Gunks, a lot of raps are back from the edge with an overhang at the edge.
2) If you take up just enough slack to get over the edge and toss over that lip, one end at a time, and proceed to lower, then they should not get tangled.
3) In doing this, it is entirely possible to get caught up on a ledge. It is not that hard to take care of that on the way down.
4) Even though the title suggests otherwise, I am not suggesting that you should never toss the ropes. I am merely making a point that often it is quite possibly dangerous to do so. At the GUnks, with the huge roofs, multiple climbs next to each other, large crowds, and raps that are sometimes over popular routes, I would say ALWAYS lower.
5) If you are climbing slab, disregard this whole post.
Josh
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blueeyedclimber
Sep 24, 2008, 7:38 PM
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dingus wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: This might belong in the beginner's thread, but I see "experienced" climbers do this to. If you cannot see the path of the rope and know that it is clear, DO NOT throw it. Yelling "ROPE" does not always work and sometimes (especially if you are beneath a roof), it is hard to hear it at all, nevermind where it's coming from. I saw (or heard) two instances this weekend where a rope was nearly thrown on a leader and a rope was thrown into a group at the base. If you lower and it gets stuck on a ledge, it is very easy to deal with that on your way down. If you throw a rope on me when I am leading, we will have some words exchanged, believe me. So, either lower or stack the rope and feed out as you go. Any questions? Josh No, no questions. I'll pass though. I'll continue to toss my rope after a suitable 'comment period' after the rope call. Lowering means the rope WILL get caught up and tangled on MOST raps. Fuck that. Rapping is scary enough without having to deal with tangled ropes every time. Don't worry hoss, I ain't never tossed no rope on no climbers no how. But if you want to have words with me anyway.... have at it! Cheers DMT
Alright, I'll have some words. I often lower and do not get my ropes tangled. Like I said this is situation dependent, despite my trollesque post (that's my style, you know). If you are climbing low angle terrain, then move along. And if you continue to throw and never toss on no climbers, then carry on.
Josh
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blueeyedclimber
Sep 24, 2008, 7:56 PM
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sungam wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: This might belong in the beginner's thread, but I see "experienced" climbers do this to. If you cannot see the path of the rope and know that it is clear, DO NOT throw it. Yelling "ROPE" does not always work and sometimes (especially if you are beneath a roof), it is hard to hear it at all, nevermind where it's coming from. I saw (or heard) two instances this weekend where a rope was nearly thrown on a leader and a rope was thrown into a group at the base. If you lower and it gets stuck on a ledge, it is very easy to deal with that on your way down.
If you throw a rope on me when I am leading, we will have some words exchanged, believe me.
So, either lower or stack the rope and feed out as you go. Any questions? Josh translates from ninja speak as "If I have to dodge your rope by doing majestic and ridiculously athletic aerial acrobatic maneuvers, you will die." (How the fuck did I spell "maneuvers" right the first try? I'm getting good at this.)
That's right. And don't think I can't lead and sword fight with you on your way down at the same time.
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hafilax
Sep 24, 2008, 8:01 PM
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I thought this was going to be about the traditional ethic of lowering after a fall and pulling the rope to start from the ground again.
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Maddhatter
Sep 24, 2008, 8:02 PM
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blueeyedclimber wrote: sungam wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: This might belong in the beginner's thread, but I see "experienced" climbers do this to. If you cannot see the path of the rope and know that it is clear, DO NOT throw it. Yelling "ROPE" does not always work and sometimes (especially if you are beneath a roof), it is hard to hear it at all, nevermind where it's coming from. I saw (or heard) two instances this weekend where a rope was nearly thrown on a leader and a rope was thrown into a group at the base. If you lower and it gets stuck on a ledge, it is very easy to deal with that on your way down.
If you throw a rope on me when I am leading, we will have some words exchanged, believe me.
So, either lower or stack the rope and feed out as you go. Any questions? Josh translates from ninja speak as "If I have to dodge your rope by doing majestic and ridiculously athletic aerial acrobatic maneuvers, you will die." (How the fuck did I spell "maneuvers" right the first try? I'm getting good at this.) That's right. And don't think I can't lead and sword fight with you on your way down at the same time.
Sure you can you just need to try harder!!
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seatbeltpants
Sep 24, 2008, 8:21 PM
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hafilax wrote: I thought this was going to be about the traditional ethic of lowering after a fall and pulling the rope to start from the ground again.
best you do that too, or we will have some words exchanged, believe me...
steve
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tradrenn
Sep 24, 2008, 8:34 PM
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I got to the habit of lowering my rope, mostly because of Gunks, and all the traffic below.
I still use it on the west coast and sometimes people look at me funny, like when I'm lowering my rope from the top of Malamute.
V.
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mheyman
Sep 24, 2008, 8:35 PM
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blueeyedclimber wrote: T If you lower and it gets stuck on a ledge, it is very easy to deal with that on your way down.
I sometimes lower, but lowering is not a necessarily good alternative to throwing. If the rope gets hung up there will be a much greater chance of dislodging something more dangerous that the rope itself.
Crowded Gunks? Walk off. In many instances its faster anyway.
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jmvc
Sep 25, 2008, 8:54 AM
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Anybody here ever been thrown off the wall by a falling rope?
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blueeyedclimber
Sep 25, 2008, 12:13 PM
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mheyman wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: T If you lower and it gets stuck on a ledge, it is very easy to deal with that on your way down. I sometimes lower, but lowering is not a necessarily good alternative to throwing. If the rope gets hung up there will be a much greater chance of dislodging something more dangerous that the rope itself.
I agree that this is a real problem in the Gunks, but is something that I am well aware of every single time. If I see any loose rocks at the lip of the edge I will usually move them further back. By Tossing just enough rope over the edge to get the lowering started and then hold the rope up, you can avoid it knocking of the loose debris on the top.
THere is a lot of loose rock at the Gunks. Everytime I am there I hear the call of "Rock", or worse, instead I hear rocks falling without any warning. I think you are an idiot if you don't wear your helmet there, even at the base.
In reply to: Crowded Gunks? Walk off. In many instances its faster anyway.
Sometimes, but in general the raps are much faster. Unless your rap is over an extremely popular route, in which case there is probably a better rap to use nearby.
Josh
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