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caliclimbergrl
Jan 26, 2009, 10:36 PM
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So my boyfriend isn't a climber. And he probably never will be. But he's been to the gym with me a few times and he's enjoying it. I don't care if he never climbs, I have plenty of people to climb with. But I like that he's interested and it would be fun to have him along for the occasional group trip or weekend getaway. And he's interested in coming along for the ride once in a while and maybe climbing in the gym once a week or so.
So ... the time has come to get him a pair of shoes. Because the ones you can rent from the gym suck and he'll need his own if he's going to come on any outdoor trips. So what kind of shoes would you recommend for someone who's climbing career will probably only consist of climbing at the gym once in a while and going on a few outdoor trips a year -- both trad and sport. He'll probably all single pitch stuff though I may take him on a some short easy multi-pitch climbs at some point. I don't think he'll ever do any leading, but I suppose you never know.
I'll probably take him shoe shopping this weekend. He has pretty average feet -- not too narrow, not too wide.
I'm thinking I'll have him try on some mythos, and the scarpa thunders.
I was also thinking of having him try on some evolv Defy shoes and I think I may have him try on some Five Ten Moccasyms. Though I think both of those may hurt while climbing -- he'll probably need something stiffer since he hasn't built up any muscles in his feet so they would probably hurt while climbing, right? How stiff/soft/felxible are the Defys?
I know he has to try on the shoes and get the ones that are comfortable for him. I've been climbing for a while, I know the drill. But I haven't had to think about shoes for a beginner in a while. And I think that the Defy and Moccasyms may feel comfortable when being tried on, but they may be too flexible for a beginner, so they might be painful while climbing. I'm wondering if the same would go for mythos, though the do seem very stiff when new and may soften up as his feet get stronger (though I'm not sure how much stronger they'll get if he's only climbing once a week for a couple hours at the gym tops). So I'm leaning toward the Thunder shoes ... but that means we'll have to find them somewhere -- it looks like REI doesn't carry them anymore (at least they're not on the website anymore).
And there's always the typical beginner shoes: Five Ten Coyote Rock Shoes. But I think those shoes suck. Anyone else have a different opinion of them?
What do you guys think? Anything else I should have him try on?
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d0nk3yk0n9
Jan 26, 2009, 10:53 PM
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I would have him try on a wide variety of shoes just to get a feel for them and get him whatever fits his foot best. Also, don't get them too tight for him, as they're his first pair of shoes and he isn't used to the tightness of climbing shoes yet. You want to get them snug enough that his feet don't slide around and that he can use them effectively, but not so tight that they hurt: "mild discomfort"-- not so perfectly comfortable that he could wear them for hours on end, but not painful-- is the goal.
I recommend the Evolv Defy, providing that they fit his feet well. They were my first shoes (I recently switched to a ridiculously tight pair of La Sportiva Barracudas) and I sized the about a half size smaller than my street shoe size. In retrospect, this was probably about a half to a whole size too big, but as a beginner this was nice as I could concentrate on the climb without the distraction of my feet hurting. They are also a good all around pair of shoes that can be used on almost any terrain without problems, even though they aren't the greatest in any one area.
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esoteric1
Jan 26, 2009, 11:08 PM
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uh,
solve the problem by dating a real man.
ill bet it will help several aspects of your relationship
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andrewG
Jan 26, 2009, 11:42 PM
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I've owned moccasyms the and mythos and demoed the defys.
The defys are cheap, comfy, fairly stiff in the toe and flexible in the arch. It felt sort of funny but nice at the same time. I think the flexibility would get the feet strong fast. Synthetic = less stretching and stinky feet.
The mythos are the most expensive. They really durable, have a great lacing system, and are really comfortable. I didn't have this problem, but have seen a lot of people wear through the laces from jamming. The symmetrical toe is less than ideal for pockets.
The moccs are my favorite. Middle of the price range. Real leather so they form to your feet well, better than mythos. Asymmetrical toe is good for pockets. Start out really stiff in the sole, but soften up a fair amount. Jam well and no laces to shred. Easy to put on/take off.
No experience with the scarpas. My brother has the coyotes and they are good for cracks, not so much with the sport. The soles banana quite a bit.
I've heard good stuff about acopa. Mad rock makes decent cheaper shoes. As you said, go with what is comfortable, just make sure to take into account the stretch factor for the different materials. I wouldn't worry too much about excessive flexibility, he won't know the difference except that whatever he gets will be way better than the rentals.
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caliclimbergrl
Jan 26, 2009, 11:53 PM
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esoteric1 wrote: uh, solve the problem by dating a real man. ill bet it will help several aspects of your relationship
LOL -- I knew to expect responses like this. I've dated plenty of climbers and there were plenty of problems in those relationships. This one on the other hand has no aspects of my relationship that I want to change. I'd much rather date someone who is good in bed than someone who can climb 5.12! ;)
So back to the shoes ... based on the responses so far, I'm leaning toward the Defys. They're cheep and I think synthetic would be a good route to go so they'll fit well out of the box and he won't have to deal with the discomfort of waiting for them to stretch out. I was thinking I'd just get them the same size as his street shoe size, but based on some replies here, I'm thinking 1/2 size smaller would work. I suppose since they're synthetic, he can just try them on and whatever is snug but comfy will work. As long as they're stiff enough, they should work.
I'll steer clear of the Coyotes since, while I will probably take him to Squamish and get him on some cracks at some point, he'll probably mostly be climbing in the gym. Plus, I just think these shoes suck.
I think in addition to the shoes I mentioned above, the new Red Chili Spirits seem to be getting good reviews. As do the La Sportiva Nagos. I have the women's version of the Scarpa Techno and I love them, but I don't think they'd make a good beginner shoe. And I was also thinking maybe the Mad Rock Phoenix shoes, but I looked at some on-line reviews and they don't seem very popular. Anyone have any opinions about any of these?
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caliclimbergrl
Jan 27, 2009, 12:03 AM
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andrewG wrote: The mythos are the most expensive. They really durable, have a great lacing system, and are really comfortable. I didn't have this problem, but have seen a lot of people wear through the laces from jamming. The symmetrical toe is less than ideal for pockets.
Yeah, they're my favorite too -- I have 2 pairs! But I'm not sure he'd need to spend that much on a shoe since he won't be climbing that much. I'm still planning on having him try them on though.
andrewG wrote: The moccs are my favorite. Middle of the price range. Real leather so they form to your feet well, better than mythos. Asymmetrical toe is good for pockets. Start out really stiff in the sole, but soften up a fair amount. Jam well and no laces to shred. Easy to put on/take off.
So what size moccs would you recommend for a beginner? (And what size mythos too for that matter?). My mythos stretched a bit (not nearly as much as people said they would), and they're awesome now, but they were so uncomfortable for about 6 months!! He's probably never going to be climbing anything all that hard and/or technical so comfort really is key. My mythos are 1 1/2 sizes smaller than my street shoe. I don't think he'd have to go that small. I'm thinking for both, maybe just 1/2 size smaller than street shoes (or even just the same size). What do you think? How much did your mythos and moccs stretch and how long did it take?
(This post was edited by caliclimbergrl on Jan 27, 2009, 12:04 AM)
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moditup
Jan 27, 2009, 1:17 AM
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I climb in katanas now. I have wide feet, though. I like velcro, I'm lazy.
My favorite comfy shoe was Evolv Bandits. I'm probably going to buy a new pair soon. The rubber on these was the best, most confidence inspiring, of any shoe I've worn to date.
If you can't find him any suitable shoes will you dump him and be my valentine? I can't climb 5.12. 
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d0nk3yk0n9
Jan 27, 2009, 2:57 AM
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One word of caution about the defys. If his feet sweat at all in them, the shoes will absolutely reek because they are lined synthetic. My climbing buddies have required that I put my shoes in a separate part of the gym if I take them off, and that I put on socks to mask my sweaty feet smell. The only solution I've found (so far) is to put drier sheets in them; this removes the smell so that they don't stink up your bag / car / house, but doesn't solve the problem of taking them off while climbing, nor of the fact that they may make his feet smell.
I only warn you since you probably (since he's your boyfriend and all) plan on spending time with him, and the smell can be quite annoying (just ask my friends!).
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angry
Jan 27, 2009, 3:01 AM
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esoteric1 wrote: uh, solve the problem by dating a real man. ill bet it will help several aspects of your relationship
Agreed. You should facebook stalk me.
Also, the mythos is one of the biggest hoaxes of climbing's history. Pretty much everything would work better.
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irregularpanda
Jan 27, 2009, 3:11 AM
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angry wrote: esoteric1 wrote: uh, solve the problem by dating a real man. ill bet it will help several aspects of your relationship Agreed. You should facebook stalk me. Also, the mythos is one of the biggest hoaxes of climbing's history. Pretty much everything would work better.
I need that on a shirt
The Front: Do the right thing.
The back: Sleep with a rock climber.
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angry
Jan 27, 2009, 3:15 AM
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irregularpanda wrote: angry wrote: esoteric1 wrote: uh, solve the problem by dating a real man. ill bet it will help several aspects of your relationship Agreed. You should facebook stalk me. Also, the mythos is one of the biggest hoaxes of climbing's history. Pretty much everything would work better. I need that on a shirt The Front: Do the right thing. The back: Sleep with a rock climber.
That's OK but a shirt that says "you should facebook stalk me" would kick ass too.
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krazykat112
Jan 27, 2009, 3:20 AM
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my bf bot defys for his first ever climbing shoe and loved (or present tense still loves) them (for long days at the gym or our "crag"; he has replaced them several times as an inexpensive "go-to")... they supposedly are real decent all around (decent for edging, asymetrical toe for pockets - only caveat is the heal may take some getting used to - the stitching on the heel part is a bit rough - i sewed some soft fabric into his and onto my first elektras). comfortable to wear for at least 5 hours and in re: donk - you don't even need to use dryer sheets (boys are so silly): take your old newspapers and crumple a few sheets into the shoe after every use. throw them out between use (obviously). it's built in recycling for all kinds of otherwise stinky situations. it helps the shoe retain it's shape and sucks in MOST odors. also works in regular shoes and tupperware....GETS THE STINK OUT.
if only getting rid of "non-performing" boys was so easy... ROTFL
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d0nk3yk0n9
Jan 27, 2009, 3:39 AM
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krazykat112 wrote: re: donk - you don't even need to use dryer sheets (boys are so silly): take your old newspapers and crumple a few sheets into the shoe after every use. throw them out between use (obviously). it's built in recycling for all kinds of otherwise stinky situations. it helps the shoe retain it's shape and sucks in MOST odors. also works in regular shoes and tupperware....GETS THE STINK OUT. /quote] I tried using newspaper, and it worked to absorb the sweat and prevent the smell from getting much worse, but it didn't do much to get rid of the existing smell. The drier sheets absorb the sweat and have the added benefit of smelling somewhat pleasant to help counteract the stench. Also, they work for longer because it takes longer for the shoe smell to overcome the drier sheet's fragrance.
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caliclimbergrl
Jan 27, 2009, 4:08 AM
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angry wrote: Also, the mythos is one of the biggest hoaxes of climbing's history. Pretty much everything would work better.
I don't know about that. I've tried several types of shoes and mythos are still my favorites! I have 4 pairs of climbing shoes and 2 of them are mythos -- my other 2 just weren't cutting it when I sent my mythos to get re-soled so I bought a second pair! I know they don't work for everyone, but they work really well for me.
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caliclimbergrl
Jan 27, 2009, 4:17 AM
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So based on everyone's responses, I'm leaning toward the Defys (assuming they fit him well -- I'll obviously have him try on several). Thanks for the tip of putting in some soft material to cover the heal stitching!
A couple last questions:
What size would work best and be comfortable? Street shoe size? 1/2 size smaller? Thoughts?
Also, does the velcro ever get in the way when jamming in cracks?
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angry
Jan 27, 2009, 4:30 AM
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If he's going to be using the Defy to climb hand cracks or larger, the velcro will be damaged. It's no different than wrecking your shoelaces. They can take an awful lot of abuse before it becomes a real problem though.
For thinner cracks the shoe can wear out much sooner than the rubber and his toes could poke through the top. I doubt he'll be on many of these since you say he's a beginner. It helps a lot coat the upper with shoe goo or freesole when the shoe is brand new.
I just wish they made the Defy in white, I think the dark is why is smells. None of my other evolves (like 10 pairs or more) smell at all.
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the_leech
Jan 27, 2009, 4:31 AM
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angry wrote: Also, the mythos is one of the biggest hoaxes of climbing's history. Pretty much everything would work better.
Oh thank god.
I'm not alone anymore!
I thought I was the only one who thought that.
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esoteric1
Jan 27, 2009, 4:38 AM
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i date a non climber as well, id probably have issues following my girlfriend though....
ill have to say, ive climbed solid for the early years with my mythos, its a great intermediate shoe, and ive climbed very well with my moccasyms, and thats probably the route i would take if i was you, especially if he wont be demanding performance,
nice spray angry....
but the bottom line is, have him try stuff on, nothing makes non climbers hate climbing like screwed up too tight shoes....
get whatever is comfortable, especially since comfort is going to be a priority and not performance, anything 5.10 makes will suit him just fine.
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phillygoat
Jan 27, 2009, 4:38 AM
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the_leech wrote: angry wrote: Also, the mythos is one of the biggest hoaxes of climbing's history. Pretty much everything would work better. Oh thank god. I'm not alone anymore! I thought I was the only one who thought that.
Double True!
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andrewG
Jan 27, 2009, 7:51 AM
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I wear a 9 in street shoes, and my moccs are 8.5. I got them as a crack shoe, and now wish I had gone with a 9. Those thin jams hurt like hell, but they are still good for sport and bouldering. So I guess I'd go with whatever street shoe size he wears, so long as they aren't too loose. Mine were slightly uncomfortable initially, and have stretched to comfort. I've worn them on a fair amount of multi pitch and sometimes feel the need to pop my heels out, but not often.
As for the mythos, I sized them down 2 sizes. They stretched more than my moccs. I'd say the mythos stretched twice as fast as the moccs, but it's hard to say. I climbed a lot less with the mythos initially so my time frame is way off. I'd say around 15 climbing days for the moccs, 5-10 for the mythos. But that is sizing them to be bearably painful for around 2 pitches.
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looserock
Jan 27, 2009, 7:32 PM
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I'd say get a -1/2 size big - lace up that is on sale. If he gets into climbing, and he will, he'll get sold on something he thinks is best, and the two of you will have some spare shoes for a guest.
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mysticshaman
Jan 27, 2009, 9:28 PM
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the defys were what i started with and still climb in them now. i sized mine 1/2 size smaller and when i first started they were a litle uncomfortable but now they are ok. a lot of it will depend on his comfort level too. another good beginner shoe is the 510 spires that and what a friend of mine started with and he swears by them.
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jermanimal
Jan 27, 2009, 9:47 PM
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Coyote, they are comfortable...probably the most important thing.
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jeepnphreak
Jan 27, 2009, 9:52 PM
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caliclimbergrl wrote: angry wrote: Also, the mythos is one of the biggest hoaxes of climbing's history. Pretty much everything would work better. \ I don't know about that. I've tried several types of shoes and mythos are still my favorites! I have 4 pairs of climbing shoes and 2 of them are mythos -- my other 2 just weren't cutting it when I sent my mythos to get re-soled so I bought a second pair! I know they don't work for everyone, but they work really well for me.
Out of the 12 or so shoes that we (my wife and I) tried on when we were getting our latest shoes. my wife chose the Mythos she loves them and retunely climbs 5.11s it seems that people either really like them or hate them.
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