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livingtheedge
Mar 16, 2005, 8:47 PM
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I was thinking of replacing my old bent gates with wire gate but before I did I wanted to get a few opinions first.
1) Is it worth the money to pick up 12 wire gates?
2) Do you have any suggestions for the 12 old bent gates and no, sending them to you is not an option.
3) If I decided to get the wire gates which band/ type is your favorite.
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overlord
Mar 16, 2005, 8:52 PM
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1) thats up to you to decide. imho yes.
2.) if nothing better leaver biners.
3.) i prefer cassin. but BDs are also very nice. just try some out at the store and buy wichever feels best.
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andrewbanandrew
Mar 16, 2005, 8:52 PM
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Go to the store and try them. Each one will feel different in your hand. It doesn't matter how light or how cheap they are, if you hate using them they're worthless.
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lessthanjoey
Mar 16, 2005, 9:22 PM
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I don't like the BD ones. Personally I actually prefer the Trango classic wiregate's (they also happen to be insanely cheap).
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qulith
Mar 16, 2005, 9:27 PM
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Also check out the trango superflys, they are the lightest wiregate on the market (30g), with a high open gate strength (9kn)
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yamama
Mar 16, 2005, 9:28 PM
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if your looking for a good/low cost wire gate look at the trangos... i have 4 and they are great.
as for old biners... use them for bail biners or to set up a slackline.
This is the site for the trangos...
http://www.gearexpress.biz/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=G&Product_Code=5158
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climbinginchico
Mar 16, 2005, 9:28 PM
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My entire rack, except for lockers, is completely wiregates. You could easily keep the bent gates for sport draws, or some other use.
I love the feel of the BD hotwires.
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yamama
Mar 16, 2005, 9:32 PM
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For 12 of the Trango classic wiregates its $51.24, not sure u can find a better deal than that.
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chukarclimber
Mar 16, 2005, 9:41 PM
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for me wiregates are the only way to go, even for sport climbing. I have been using them for a while and they are light and very easy to clip. I have troubles clipping bent biners fast now that I am use to wiregates.
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rmcclmbr
Mar 16, 2005, 10:03 PM
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In a course I recently took, the instructor stated that during a lead fall, the rope's vibrations can briefly open the gate of a non locking biner, which then knocks down the protection from 24Kn to 8Kn, which can be dangerous. Is this a serious thing to watch out for? and do wire gates offer any less protection against such an occurance than non wire due to their size and mass?
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josephgdawson
Mar 16, 2005, 10:42 PM
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I love the BD Neutrino Wiregates. They are a tad smaller than a full size biner and they are very light. I must have two dozen of them. Cheap too.
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k00lie
Mar 16, 2005, 10:49 PM
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In reply to: In a course I recently took, the instructor stated that during a lead fall, the rope's vibrations can briefly open the gate of a non locking biner, which then knocks down the protection from 24Kn to 8Kn, which can be dangerous. Is this a serious thing to watch out for? and do wire gates offer any less protection against such an occurance than non wire due to their size and mass?
Without a screamer, not a common problem.
Wire gates lessen the chance of flutter.
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petsfed
Mar 16, 2005, 10:52 PM
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In reply to: In a course I recently took, the instructor stated that during a lead fall, the rope's vibrations can briefly open the gate of a non locking biner, which then knocks down the protection from 24Kn to 8Kn, which can be dangerous. Is this a serious thing to watch out for? and do wire gates offer any less protection against such an occurance than non wire due to their size and mass?
The lower mass of the gate on a wire lessens that issue considerably. And it is a real risk. That's why open gate strength is sooo important.
As far as wiregates go...
Best clipping is the old "fin", the oldschool Livewire from BD. The new one ain't bad, but not the same.
Best all around is the BD quickwire, which they don't make anymore.
I use Trango Classic Wires for a lot too.
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tammarak
Mar 16, 2005, 10:52 PM
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Gate flutter is a very real occurance. If at the second the rope comes tight on a biner it opens the breaking strength is reduced by more than half. A common way for this to happen is if the spine of a carabiner smakes the rock violently in a fall - the gate will breifly open. Test it yourself, take a non-wire gate biner and slap it against your palm. If it makes a clicking sound, then the biner is opening. I use almost entirely wire gate biners to prevent against this. There have been acounts of people taking giant falls as a result of biners breaking. Not all non-wire gate biners flutter. Petzel spirits, for example have very high quality springs and do not flutter. Go for wires they're lighter and if you want to get into alpine or ice climbing, wires won't freeze shut.
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caughtinside
Mar 16, 2005, 10:54 PM
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I see this is in the sport climbing forum, so I imagine you're looking at getting 12 wiregates for your rope end biners of your draws.
If that's the case, I wouldn't bother, unless your bentgates really suck. I think the gains you'd make in clippability and weight savings aren't worth the expense.
I've got draws with wires and bents, and truth be told, I don't really care which ones I'm clipping. They both clip easy.
I'd save your money. If you had another use for your old biners, it might be worthwhile, but it sounds like you don't.
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caughtinside
Mar 16, 2005, 10:55 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In a course I recently took, the instructor stated that during a lead fall, the rope's vibrations can briefly open the gate of a non locking biner, which then knocks down the protection from 24Kn to 8Kn, which can be dangerous. Is this a serious thing to watch out for? and do wire gates offer any less protection against such an occurance than non wire due to their size and mass? *cough*s---*cough* :roll:
While perhaps poorly articulated, I believe this is correct.
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petsfed
Mar 17, 2005, 3:03 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In a course I recently took, the instructor stated that during a lead fall, the rope's vibrations can briefly open the gate of a non locking biner, which then knocks down the protection from 24Kn to 8Kn, which can be dangerous. Is this a serious thing to watch out for? and do wire gates offer any less protection against such an occurance than non wire due to their size and mass? *cough*s---*cough* :roll: While perhaps poorly articulated, I believe this is correct.
Can anybody dig up the study that proved that bizarro vibrations during certain falls really do occur? I'm really lazy.
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alex234
Mar 17, 2005, 3:52 AM
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I would definately go for the wiregates. Although a tad more expensive i find them easier to clip with and not only that but they are lighter and safer in regards to gate flutter. I too like the trango classic wiregates but have quite a few BD ones also.
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ikellen
Mar 17, 2005, 5:02 AM
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Personally, I think wiregates are WAY easier to clip than solid gates, bent or not. They are a worthy investment.
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topher
Mar 17, 2005, 5:34 AM
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when your draw what ever slaps up against the wall or rock or what ever the gate will open dont trust me take one and slap its spine against your hand you will hear it click.. wire gate binners help prevent this because the wire has less weight so they have less flutter.. this is good!! this being said none wire gate binners are safe and i still use them.. just some thing to think about...
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angry
Mar 17, 2005, 6:05 AM
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I've never understood these questions.
On my rack I have ovals, REI D's, Trango bent and straight, HB bent, Omega gates, WC someweirdkeylikebiner, and some other random biners. I can quickly and easily clip these, trad or sport. I don't have any issues.
What's this obsession about needing the right biner to send. I don't buy the weight arguement either.
Buy what you like when they are on sale and you need more. There aren't any real advantages though.
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climbfrog
Mar 17, 2005, 9:10 AM
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I think this is why Goran Cropp died? I mean gate flutter that is. I'm not too sure. Just heard that from some swiss guy here in Australia who knew him some how. The Wild Country wild wires are good, as well the BD hotwires. But if you want simply the best, get the DMM wirelocks. Brilliant biner!
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dredsovrn
Mar 17, 2005, 11:58 AM
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If you are ready to retire the bent gates, my preference is always for wires. Lots of things you could do with the old ones. Misc gear racking is always good. Hang stuff up in your garage. Whatever. WC Heliums are hard to beat.
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jcshaggy
Mar 17, 2005, 1:19 PM
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More like affordable vs. unaffordable.
I've got 8 DMM wire gate draws-happy with them.
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pico23
Mar 17, 2005, 2:37 PM
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Omega Dovals: light, multi functional and fairly cheap. JC wires are nice too for the rope end by limit dual funtionality. However, I try to keep gear biners on gear and rope on rope to reduce wear so i have dedicated biners.
IMO, the best wire on the market is the DMM Wirelock. The thing is awesome. I initially got one for my dogs leash. This sounds weird but I got tired of the nose hanging on his rappel ring when I unclipped him. I picked up a few more for racking my wires with for the same reason. TOOOOO EXPENSIVE to build a rack around, but light, strong and functional.
As for the bent gates. I only owned a few (finders really). And I never found clipping was that much easier than wires. But bear in mind I don't climb extremely hard routes on lead or much sport so I would rarely find that extra bit of clip ease a benefit that a bent gate might possibly provide. i'm far more interested in it staying shut once I am clipped and wires do a better job.
I'd carry 2-3 bent gates as leavers on lead. Use them for rappels to. Or sell them on Ebay.
Edited to note: I didn't realize this was a sport specific thread when I replied from the front page. Most post was more directed at general climbing and not specifically sport. Sorry.
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pico23
Mar 17, 2005, 2:54 PM
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In reply to: I've never understood these questions. On my rack I have ovals, REI D's, Trango bent and straight, HB bent, Omega gates, WC someweirdkeylikebiner, and some other random biners. I can quickly and easily clip these, trad or sport. I don't have any issues. What's this obsession about needing the right biner to send. I don't buy the weight arguement either. Buy what you like when they are on sale and you need more. There aren't any real advantages though.
I agree with this but only to a point. Once you have your rack of Frankenstein biners put it on a scale. Then pick up the couple that are the strongest and lightest (and also that you like best). Put those on a scale and multiply by the amount for a rack. The lighter biners will save you a lot of weight. I mean people are counting grams on most products they buy so if you apply that to a rack of biners and slings you can save almost a pound without any loss of function.
When I switched from light D's and Omega 4.0 Wiregates to Omega Dovals and JC wires I shaved a half pound off my rack. Thats another cam or even a set of nuts. Or just a lighter rack to promote upward progress. I also switched (with a fight) from nylon runners to spectra. Again this saved a few ounces on the rack. The cost wasn't much after I sold most of my old gear. Again, this is from a purely trad/ice perspective and I can't really comment on climbing hard sport routes but I can't imagine that the weight of a few biners is often physically the difference in sending. However, if you believe the gear is the culprit than it will be regardless of whether it actually is.
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duncan
Mar 17, 2005, 9:10 PM
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In reply to: Can anybody dig up the study that proved that bizarro vibrations during certain falls really do occur? I'm really lazy.
This probably happened to me. I took a 60 foot fall aid-soloing which resulted in a lead rope with mantle stripped for a few inches and several strands of the kern cut. This occurred on one of the smoother sections of El Cap and there were no rock edges that could have caused this nor any evidence that the rope had snagged on a pin or rivet.
The 'biner on the RP that took most of the fall had bits of the lead rope caught between the gate and the notch in the nose. The RP was pulled through it's placement, converting it from a number 4 to number 2, so it must have failed relatively slowly. I imagine this is similar to the effect of a screamer and might have caused the gate to vibrate open. Fortunately the RP eventually pulled through and the rest of the rope was spared.
The 'biner was a lightweight D solid gate from a well respected manufacturer. They examined the item later and pronounced it in good working order.
I do tend to use wiregates much more now.
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td
Mar 17, 2005, 10:02 PM
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In reply to: On my rack I have ovals, REI D's, Trango bent and straight, HB bent, Omega gates, WC someweirdkeylikebiner, and some other random biners. I can quickly and easily clip these, trad or sport. I don't have any issues. What's this obsession about needing the right biner to send. I don't buy the weight arguement either... There aren't any real advantages though.
Excellent! I have a bunch of old biners you might like to buy.
Mmmm, 63 gram ovals.
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