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uzziah
Mar 18, 2005, 1:02 AM
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requirements:
1. able to sleep in and be low-profile. i.e. vw campers are out (they're out anyway because of reliability and awful-in-snow) i live in CO. i want to be able to sleep anywhere without someone knowing i'm there :)
2. 4wd
3. under $7k
desireables: (in order of wanted)
1. reliability
2. manual transmission
3. gas mileage
current thoughts:
1. toyota tacoma with shell
2. toyota 4runner: remove rear seats and engineer a platform
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ginger_ninja
Mar 18, 2005, 1:10 AM
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http://www.smartimes.co.uk/images/fp.jpg
personally, i think you should go with this :lol:
gotta love smart cars :roll:
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uzziah
Mar 18, 2005, 1:33 AM
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http://autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=178817469&dealer_id=56012154&car_year=1997&make=TOYOTA&distance=300〈=en&max_price=7000&model=4RUN&sponsorModel=&end_year=2006&min_price=1&certified=&address=80303&search_type=both&advanced=&start_year=1996&isp=y&cardist=29
that's what i want.
darn. just called 1st owner. seems like he'd take good care of it. but 277k miles. i don't think i can do that. thoughts?
kelly blue book is still giving me a value of $7400, which seems way to high for me. i mean, how much longer could it possibly run?? i don't think i'd be able to resell it, but he seems eager to sell and i could probably get him to lower the price - he's having a hard time finding a buyer
1st owner, all highway miles. he sees clients all over the place. older guy who i would imagine it would be well mainainted
i mean, though: could this actually last me another 100k miles if it's been well taken care of? it seems like the land of diminishing returns, but the cars are very reliable.
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caughtinside
Mar 18, 2005, 1:34 AM
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Chevy astro/gmc safari?
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caughtinside
Mar 18, 2005, 1:35 AM
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In reply to: http://autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=178817469&dealer_id=56012154&car_year=1997&make=TOYOTA&distance=300&lang=en&max_price=7000&model=4RUN&sponsorModel=&end_year=2006&min_price=1&certified=&address=80303&search_type=both&advanced=&start_year=1996&isp=y&cardist=29 that's what i want. darn. just called 1st owner. seems like he'd take good care of it. but 277k miles. i don't think i can do that. thoughts?
That's a lot of miles, even for a solid vehicle like a 4runner. Maybe for 2k, but 6,400?
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uzziah
Mar 18, 2005, 1:38 AM
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reliability
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uzziah
Mar 18, 2005, 1:40 AM
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that's my thought as well. kbb disagress though. i think kbb is smoking something. i just wonder how long it could last. i know few cars that would last that long. but if it's been well taken care of mechanically, and i get it checked out at my local mechanic, i might have some serious bargaining room. he seemed positively giddy that i called :) he must have an incredibly hard time finding a buyer
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uzziah
Mar 18, 2005, 1:42 AM
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http://autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=178860045&dealer_id=56014138&car_year=1996&search_type=both&make=TOYOTA&sponsorModel=&distance=300&model=4RUN&address=80303&certified=&advanced=&max_price=7002&min_price=1&end_year=2006&start_year=1996&isp=y&lang=en&cardist=26
that one has 100k less miles, but it's an automatic which i don't like
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satchel
Mar 18, 2005, 1:43 AM
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Come on man. I've got this sweet 76 Bus that has your name all over it. I'm selling it for 2500. If you have 7000 to spend you'd have enoungh to buy you an extra engine and store it on top in your new roof rack. I live in Colorado too. Been driving a bus for 10 years. Great in the snow. Not low profile. I did take the 420 stickers off.
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cjstudent
Mar 18, 2005, 1:44 AM
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Jeep Cherokee
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kpj240789
Mar 18, 2005, 1:46 AM
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That's a nice car why do you care so much it's automatic. That just makes it easier on long drives.
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crag_shwagger
Mar 18, 2005, 1:48 AM
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Cherokee man.
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uzziah
Mar 18, 2005, 1:52 AM
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jeep gives me hives. those things are reliability-nightmares. they leek oil et.c most unreliable vehicle on the road
well, maybe if i'm thinking of older cars i should consider american cars, but i still think i'm going to get my butt kicked in reliability
lots of japanese car haters out here, eh?
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illimaniman
Mar 18, 2005, 1:55 AM
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Subaru Impreza Wagon
4 Runners are very overpriced
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uzziah
Mar 18, 2005, 1:58 AM
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can't sleep in the imprezz homie.
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gamehendge
Mar 18, 2005, 1:58 AM
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I second the Subie Impreza or even an Outback which has a lilttle more room. You can easily find a good one for 7k.
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gamehendge
Mar 18, 2005, 2:03 AM
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Try Craig's List in you area. Here's an example of a Subaru Outback search in the SF Bay area.
http://www.craigslist.org/cgi-bin/search?areaID=1&subAreaID=&type_search=1&query=outback&cat=sss
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yamama
Mar 18, 2005, 2:13 AM
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Jeep Cherokee!!! the only way to go... best suv ever made. We have two, one we have has 250,000+ miles. They are great off road and have lots of sleeping room.
The best years they were made were: 91-93 4.0L and 97 and later 4.0L. Other than that i would look at the 98 Grand Cherokee Limited 5.9L.... These are the CREAM OF THE CROP Jeeps (that are big enough to sleep in)
If you have any questions about these jeeps just ask.
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davidji
Mar 18, 2005, 2:16 AM
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In reply to: can't sleep in the imprezz homie. |
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ivalley
Mar 18, 2005, 2:19 AM
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Get the 'yota my friend. My advice is get a 2 inch body lift and put 32's on it. Oh, and make sure it's a stick. Silly automatics. Just so people can eat their whopper and drive at the same time.
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gamehendge
Mar 18, 2005, 2:26 AM
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Oh yeah, a Subie also gets about 22 city/27 highway miles. Very important to consider. Gas is pretty expensive here around my parts.
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davidji
Mar 18, 2005, 2:29 AM
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In reply to: Get the 'yota my friend. My advice is get a 2 inch body lift and put 32's on it. Oh, and make sure it's a stick. Silly automatics. Just so people can eat their whopper and drive at the same time. |
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uzziah
Mar 18, 2005, 4:51 AM
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In reply to: Jeep Cherokee!!! the only way to go... best suv ever made. We have two, one we have has 250,000+ miles. They are great off road and have lots of sleeping room. The best years they were made were: 91-93 4.0L and 97 and later 4.0L. Other than that i would look at the 98 Grand Cherokee Limited 5.9L.... These are the CREAM OF THE CROP Jeeps (that are big enough to sleep in) If you have any questions about these jeeps just ask.
ok, you've got me interested. my impression on jeeps are that they are absolute reliability disastors. are you saying yours just "ran" that long, or that you actually had few problems during that tme? my experience with jeep is that they leek oil, break down and alltogether are just awful vehicles, off road exluded
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johnathon78
Mar 18, 2005, 5:13 AM
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Dude, the Jeep cherokee is the shit. I own a 98 sport with 86k miles on it and never once leaked oil, gas, etc. The back seats fold down and the front fold almost all the way foreward, giving you enough room the have a orgy. Believe me...I've tried. O.k. no I didnt. N.E. way, I know of at least 3 buddies of mine all of whom drive cherokees with over 150k miles on the original engine...still running like champ. Definately check em' out man.....I got mine with 65k and got it for $6,500.
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tattooed_climber
Mar 18, 2005, 5:17 AM
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jeeps are crap
buy a toyota.....impossible to kill....they just keep running......though they rust
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giza
Mar 18, 2005, 5:55 AM
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toyota van dude!!! They're the dopest. Once you have one there's no turning back. I've got 310,000 km on mine and it runs awesome (however, doesn't quite resemble the picture). Some are 4x4 too. I'd highly recommend these vans.
http://media8.motorcities.com/00D49151329555D.jpg
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weasel
Mar 18, 2005, 6:04 AM
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In my opinion, if you're choosing a car it probably isn't a climbing-mobile.
Most people's climbing-mobiles (a.k.a. their homes), fall under the following catagories:
Bought for under 150$
Will probably spend over 900$ in repairs (usually in something that can't be ignored. like the driveshaft).
Is about 4 inches shy of having enough room to sleep in.
Has the unmaskable smell of old people.
Will soon smell like someone's been living in there (which you will be).
Has enough room to store the climber's entire life but not enough room for one extra passenger.
Cats sleep in the engine compartment.
So if you're looking for the ideal car, look for these traits. Don't worry, you'll find just the right one for you. ;)
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tnchief
Mar 18, 2005, 6:13 AM
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I currently drive a '97 Nissan Pathfinder 4WD. I bought it new, and it has given me very few problems. Other than basic wear and tear, all I've really had to do fix was a blown manifold. I currently have ~120k miles on it. It still runs great, gets decent gas mileage (particularly for 4WD), and there's plenty of room (lots more than the 4Runner). Plus, it handles MUCH better than a Jeep.
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rainontin
Mar 18, 2005, 6:24 AM
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In reply to: toyota van dude!!! They're the dopest. Once you have one there's no turning back. I've got 310,000 km on mine and it runs awesome (however, doesn't quite resemble the picture). Some are 4x4 too. I'd highly recommend these vans. http://media8.motorcities.com/00D49151329555D.jpg
Yeah, but can you bolt holds on the outside and boulder it?
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weasel
Mar 18, 2005, 6:31 AM
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In reply to: Yeah, but can you bolt holds on the outside and boulder it?
I don't. I use the rust holes.
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reno
Mar 18, 2005, 6:36 AM
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1970's Jeep Wagoneer.
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tigerbythetail
Mar 18, 2005, 6:40 AM
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Toyota -
Pickup: Don't bother (unless you have the dinero) to get a Tacoma as it's more or less the same as a Pickup repackaged and you'll weep more when you f&ck up the paint job...yet again. The extra cab is nice but the standard cab wheelbase approaches that of a Jeep, if that matters. Great offroad, but don't expect to blow people off the line in the city. One of the great Japanese imports. 1985 and earlier had solid axles (like the Jeeps) but 82-97 (including some Tacomas) is good.
Four-Runner: The original and much copied SUV - here's who to blame! Ditto the Pickup apecs except it comes (optional) with four doors, 4 seats and all the (factory covered) space of the pickup bed. A predictable high-quality, well-made, low-maintenance ride. 92-96 are muy bueno.
Land Cruiser: These things are badass and very popular worldwide for getting you and all your shit to where you want to go in style. The older models (pre 1991) are what you really want as they are slow, steady and tough as nails. Not the most fuel-efficient but it's all shades of gray isn't it? The 84-90 models are exceptional.
Jeep -
Cherokee: Get the 2 or 4 door (more convenient) model with the 4.0 litre engine (HO for more power/fun) and get a very capable offroad rig that has a fair amount of room if you go somewhat light. Look at the 90-96 models for best luck.
Grand Cherokee - Not much experience with this, but it seems more hit or miss than the Cherokee. A plusher ride, but less predictable. Kudos if you can find a good one. Not sure the good years for this.
Subarau -
These are mostly unfamiliar with me but I hear they go and go. Perhaps somebody else can vouch for this.
Otherwise, remember that your rig only gets you so far...and then you have to rope up.
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slobmonster
Mar 18, 2005, 6:53 AM
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Toyota Previa.
I have a 1991 5-speed, and though it is not AWD Toyota did make an "altrac" version in the early nineties.
Mine was $2500 straight up, with 130K miles, it drives like a dream (knock on wood) and has that --je ne sais quois-- unimpeachable soccer mom quality to it, especially if you tint the windows.
You are embarking on an adventure. Choose wisely.
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weasel
Mar 18, 2005, 7:00 AM
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Regarding Subaraus:
They are a great make. Many people I know have them and love em. You CAN sleep in them but I don't know if they're 4x4.
And yes it's true they go and go. One of my friends has an old Suby and when you get in, it utters sounds that make you think you're going to die, but it'll get to the mountain and back no problem (usually).
Great cars, I hope to own one someday.
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epic_ed
Mar 18, 2005, 7:37 AM
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A topic close to my heart. The Epic Mobile is a '95 4Runner and it's the perfect vehicle for my needs. Here's my take, and a little abbreviated 4Runner history:
- Toyota has four generations of 4Runners. The first and possibly best SUV ever made was introduced in 1984. The '84 & '85 models had a solid front axle, which is a nice feature for those looking to do some off-road modifications. The first generation body style continued until 1989.
- Second generation 4Runners were produced from 1990 - 1995 and are a nice compromise of comfort and off-road functionality. The 3.0L 6-cylinder engine (3VZ-E) that they started putting in the 1988 model is the predominate engine type in the 2nd gen 4Runner, and it's quite possibly the worst engine Toyota ever built. It's terribly under-powered for the size of vehicle it propels, gets poor gas mileage, and is notorious for a head gasket leak or failure. The head gasket was such an issue that Toyota launched a recall campaign, and to this day, will repair or replace and 3VZ-E engine that has the original engine and head gasket fail. It cover most, but not all 3VZ-E engines made between 90 - 95. Unfortunately, mine fell outside the VIN number range of the recall, but experienced the same problems. It cost me $2,000 for my first engine replacement.
- The third generation 4Runner was built from 1996 - 2003, is a little larger, has a much more appropriate power plant (3.4L V6), and is a very nice vehicle. In fact, my next ride will be a 3rd Gen 4Runner. At this point, I think even the oldest models may still be out of your price range. Toyotas hold their value very well, and for a reason.
- The late 2nd generation/early 3rd generation 4Runner is the sweet spot you're shooting for. There are many advantages of going with the 3rd gen, and if you can get one for a decent price it would be your best option. DO NOT buy a 2nd generation 4Runner with the 3.0L 3VZ-E engine unless you can verify that the head gasket service has been done or the engine has been replaced. Despite the lack of power it's still a very reliable engine once the head gasket issue has been resolved.
- Both generations have extensive aftermarket options available to customize your rig. I've sunk literally thousands of dollars into modifications on mine and I wouldn't trade it for anything right now. You can get a few extra horsies out of the 3.0L for minimum money, but by-and-large expect the engine to be a dog.
- The Jeep Cherokee suggestion is probably one of the best value going in the SUV market right now. You can pick them up for a song, and the 4.0L straight 6 is a BOMBER engine. Powerful and reliable. I owned one for several years and it never let me down. You'll get more miles out of a Toyota, but you won't get more power.
Ed
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cgailey
Mar 18, 2005, 9:17 AM
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In reply to: Subarau - These are mostly unfamiliar with me but I hear they go and go. Perhaps somebody else can vouch for this.
Yes...my '94 legacy has 216,000 on it, has been across the country and back a couple of times, towed a trailer to AK, been up and down from AK a few times, and it's still rockin' with absolutely no problems. I paid 8K for it over 5 years ago. You can sleep in the back...I have more times than I can count, and the mileage is pretty good.
It's 4wd and can't be beat in the snow...
I love the thing!
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snars
Mar 18, 2005, 11:12 AM
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In reply to: requirements: vw campers are out (they're out anyway because of reliability and awful-in-snow
:evil: Reliability schmeliability, you just need to treat em right. And bad in snow..... watch this: syncro bus in action.
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billhilly
Mar 18, 2005, 2:09 PM
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Be a man!! Ride your bike like Goran Kropp. You'll climb harder. If not buy a 4x4 diesel mighty max by mitsubishi, then you can make your own biodiesel and all the climber chicks will think your really cool. If not I have a super sweat 95 Ford Ranger I'll sell ya.
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sandbag
Mar 18, 2005, 2:31 PM
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I had a 1994 4 Runner( God i should have never gotten rid of it...) :cry:
and at 267K miles i had only put 1 set of front shocks, 3 sets of tires, i clutch, 1 set of front brake pads, and was just about to finally get new rear shocks and springs(300 bux)
It was reliable, consistent, and solid.
Its also the last SUV with a drop gate and not those crappy lift gates(and the 95)
If you find one in that age range( i bought mine with 95K miles and put the additional 179K miles) make sure you do the research, they had a factory recall on head gaskets and airconditioners and any toyota dealer will take the vin to alert you to if the work was done. Its free. Its a federally required recall. Ask Epic_ed, hes up on all the 4RUNNER STUFF FOR THOSE YEARS
good luck
btw i currently have an 87 XJ Wagoneer, not nearly as kick ass as the 93-95 4Runners, but its not bad. It comes down to how you treat the vehicle and how much you can work on it yourself.
(edited for being a loser....)
i just read the whole post...ed chimed earlier in and i wasted space once again... OFF TP THE MOUNTAINS AND AWAY FROM THIS INFERNAL NET THING>>>>> ;)
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golgiapp
Mar 18, 2005, 3:03 PM
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In reply to: If not buy a 4x4 diesel mighty max by mitsubishi, then you can make your own biodiesel and all the climber chicks will think your really cool.
You can also find old tacomas with diesel engines. The toyota hilux is the industrial version of the tacoma sold in the rest of the world and you can sometimes find them on ebay.
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runningclimber
Mar 18, 2005, 3:40 PM
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I just bought a used Ranger, 1998, 100K miles, 4x4, manual transmission for around $5K. Slap a camper shell on something like that and you'd be good to go.
I too wanted a Tacoma or 4Runner. I looked and looked and couldn't find anything decent under $10K. Any Toyota I found in my price range had something quirky about it....an obscene amount of miles, engine had been replaced, strange modifications to the body, etc.
Is Ford truck quality as good as Toyota? No, but it's not bad. Check out Consumer Reports or something similar. To put it on a ten point scale, I would say that they generally rate the Tacoma at a 9 or a 10, the Ranger at a 7 or 8, and other American trucks (Chevy, GMC, Dodge) much lower. For me, it wasn't worth paying top dollar for a Tacoma when I could get the Ranger - which is still pretty good - for much less.
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qwert
Mar 18, 2005, 3:43 PM
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Those damm SUVs are way overrated.
S hitty
U gly
V ehicles
They eat way to much gas, are way to slow (unless they eat even more gas), and dont have anything you could call "real" offroad abilitys. And plus: they mostly dont offer too much room either.
If you dont plan doing anything hardcore offroad, get a convertible, and if you really think you need it one with awd. Subaru legacy is defintitely nice, or anything VW. My VW ´94 Golf (rabbit?) totally kicks ass. Big enough for 5 people plus climbing gear plus camping gear plus food for ten days and pretty good gas mileage.
Or just get a VW bus. that would be my dream car. the newer TDI diesel engines are just awsome.
But if you really need something to go offroad, then go with some real offraod vehicle, not some of those SUckinVs. They have also a bad gas mileage, but you at least now where its going to. Hummer (but not the gay pimp H2), Mercedes Benz G-class (totally crazy thing. you wont even come near its maximum abilitys, since you will fear for your live bevore) or old Nissan Patrol or Toyota landcruiser.
Oh, and did i mention that SUVs suck?
qwert
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cchildre
Mar 18, 2005, 3:58 PM
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My pick is the VW Passat Wagon TDI model. The gas mileage rules but I am not sure about sleeping accomodations. I am going to be moving to one of these soon. Plus the biodiesel option is becoming more and more viable with the gas prices going skyward. I am going to swap a diesel into my Jeep before I part with it and that will rule.
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angry
Mar 18, 2005, 4:03 PM
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Toyotas are good but as a result, they keep their resale value way too well.
You could get a late 80's toyota truck. You'd be guaranteed a manual. It's about 800-1000 for a rebuilt 22R engine if you shop around. I put 199K on mine before I wrecked it, had I kept it longer a new engine would have been in order then next year.
What I'm doing now is driving a Dodge Dakota. It's a 94 longbed with a camper shell. It's 4wd and V6. It's a little more powerful (though not as punchy) as the toyota. It rides smoother. It's burlier off road. It gets 22-23 mpg as opposed to the Toyota's 19-21. It's a lot bigger, I carpeted the back and sleep there easily. I even have cruise control on this one.
THe trouble is that it has a reputation of being a terrible vehicle. Mine has never broken, I might be getting lucky, I don't know. I got it at 77K and now its at 127K, so far it's been perfect. It doesn't keep it's resale value so if you buy one used, it's a lot cheaper. I don't know man, mine is perfect but a few years ago Consumer Reports said mine and the ChevyAstro van were the worst vehicles you could own.
The experience has me thinking that japanese vehicles are not that much better. My American POS runs as good as my toyota did, and is more comfortable in many ways. Look into a well maintained american truck, they aren't as bad as everyone says.
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strongmadsends
Mar 18, 2005, 5:20 PM
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I dont know if anybody mentioned this cause I didnt read the whole post but SUBARU! Last forever and sick AWD
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wayfare
Mar 18, 2005, 6:27 PM
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the ultimate vagabond climber-mobile:
http://www.hankstruckpictures.com/pix/trucks/jim_steele/2004/feb/fedex_frtlnr_van02.jpg
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yamama
Mar 18, 2005, 7:47 PM
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I'm not saying Jeeps are the best thing for you. I'm just saying offroad the are KILLER and if you get one of the years i said the chances of anything going wrong with it is slim.
Yeah 4Runners are great too... just never had one, so i can't say that much about them.
The Jeep we have has 250,000+ on it and the past 75,000 was mainly off road, which my dad never did anything with it. If you take care of ur jeep it will take care of u. ie... oil changes, new belts, ect...
I say jeeps because we have 3 in my family, so i know what i'm talking about.
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uzziah
Mar 20, 2005, 7:52 AM
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In reply to: toyota van dude!!! They're the dopest. Once you have one there's no turning back. I've got 310,000 km on mine and it runs awesome (however, doesn't quite resemble the picture). Some are 4x4 too. I'd highly recommend these vans. http://media8.motorcities.com/00D49151329555D.jpg
that is dope. must have. must have :D
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uzziah
Mar 20, 2005, 7:54 AM
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In reply to: In my opinion, if you're choosing a car it probably isn't a climbing-mobile. Most people's climbing-mobiles (a.k.a. their homes), fall under the following catagories: Bought for under 150$ Will probably spend over 900$ in repairs (usually in something that can't be ignored. like the driveshaft). Is about 4 inches shy of having enough room to sleep in. Has the unmaskable smell of old people. Will soon smell like someone's been living in there (which you will be). Has enough room to store the climber's entire life but not enough room for one extra passenger. Cats sleep in the engine compartment. So if you're looking for the ideal car, look for these traits. Don't worry, you'll find just the right one for you. ;)
har har har
not looking for a mobile-climbing-home-mobile. rather a weekend and road-trippin mobile. i.e. all i want the thing to do is: drive well in snow, drive well off road (not heavy off road-but need to get to a few desert towers etc.), and give my 6ft self some room to snooze with my wife.
climber-sarcasm..................huh
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uzziah
Mar 20, 2005, 7:57 AM
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In reply to: Toyota - Pickup: Don't bother (unless you have the dinero) to get a Tacoma as it's more or less the same as a Pickup repackaged and you'll weep more when you f&ck up the paint job...yet again. The extra cab is nice but the standard cab wheelbase approaches that of a Jeep, if that matters. Great offroad, but don't expect to blow people off the line in the city. One of the great Japanese imports. 1985 and earlier had solid axles (like the Jeeps) but 82-97 (including some Tacomas) is good. Four-Runner: The original and much copied SUV - here's who to blame! Ditto the Pickup apecs except it comes (optional) with four doors, 4 seats and all the (factory covered) space of the pickup bed. A predictable high-quality, well-made, low-maintenance ride. 92-96 are muy bueno. Land Cruiser: These things are badass and very popular worldwide for getting you and all your s--- to where you want to go in style. The older models (pre 1991) are what you really want as they are slow, steady and tough as nails. Not the most fuel-efficient but it's all shades of gray isn't it? The 84-90 models are exceptional. Jeep - Cherokee: Get the 2 or 4 door (more convenient) model with the 4.0 litre engine (HO for more power/fun) and get a very capable offroad rig that has a fair amount of room if you go somewhat light. Look at the 90-96 models for best luck. Grand Cherokee - Not much experience with this, but it seems more hit or miss than the Cherokee. A plusher ride, but less predictable. Kudos if you can find a good one. Not sure the good years for this. Subarau - These are mostly unfamiliar with me but I hear they go and go. Perhaps somebody else can vouch for this. Otherwise, remember that your rig only gets you so far...and then you have to rope up.
now that's just excellent, much appreciated advice.
ps: the jeep cherokee and toyota 4runner are my top choices right now. i think i lean towards the 4runner as i mainly need the sleeping-quality and the off-road quality is really AN AFTERTHOUGHT. i'll only be going off road around CO to get to some obscure approaches, and i won't be going to NV to do desert climibng all that often. the off-road capability is really just this: there ARE SOME approaches that i'll need decent clearance 4wd to get to, and i just don't want to miss out on them. mainly though, this car will be used for (in order of frequency:)
1. driving out on weekend trips (every weekend for me is a road-trip weekend :) ) and "camping" overnight in the car
2. driving round town and picking up stuff (nice to have more space - boulder freecycle has been offering me tons of good furniture etc. and for moving will save me much $$ - yes, this is option number 2: why? becasue i'll be taking the bus to CU Boulder starting next fall, so won't be driving much, and my wife works at CU and takes bus -great thing about boulder)
3. going out on week-long trips etc. to BC, Nevada, the needles in CA etc.
ps: looks like $7k for 100k miles is a good, reasonable price (believe it or not). looks like 1995 an older is more my price range. do they all have the crappy engine??? can i actually get it fully repared/replaced? should i just forget about anything older than 96?
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uzziah
Mar 20, 2005, 8:31 AM
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ps: fuel-economy is "important" to me - i was actually considering buying a toyota echo before i reallized how much i wanted to be able to sleep in the vehicle. but, i really won't be driving it much except on the weekends, so that lessens the blow.
my current thought: get a 1996 or later 4runner. remove the rear seats (i don't imagine it'll be too difficult?? - it's just me and my wife or my and a partner all the time anyway) and build a wooden platform maybe a couple feet high, and put a mattress on top of it- maybe foam maybe air. use the space under the platform to store gear (and maybe a sub?? :twisted: ). i really like this idea. i also have a hard time not admitting that i'm a rather a toyota-fanboy. i think i'll raise my price limit to $8k as well, though i'd rather spend $7k
a couple worthy ones:
http://autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=179170070&dealer_id=56041418&car_year=1987&make=TOYOTA&distance=300&lang=en&max_price=8000&model=4RUN&sponsorModel=&sort_type=mileageASC&end_year=2006&min_price=1&certified=&address=80303&search_type=both&advanced=&start_year=1981&isp=y&cardist=33
http://autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=177722902&dealer_id=446364&car_year=1990&make=TOYOTA&distance=300&lang=en&max_price=8000&model=4RUN&sponsorModel=&sort_type=mileageASC&end_year=2006&min_price=1&first_record=26&pager.offset=25&certified=&address=80303&search_type=both&advanced=&isp=y&start_year=1981&cardist=28
http://autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=179439029&dealer_id=5641175&car_year=1995&make=TOYOTA&distance=300&lang=en&max_price=8000&model=4RUN&sponsorModel=&sort_type=mileageASC&end_year=2006&min_price=1&first_record=26&pager.offset=25&certified=&address=80303&search_type=both&advanced=&isp=y&start_year=1981&cardist=29
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uzziah
Mar 20, 2005, 10:22 AM
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that older 4runner looks very intriguing
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bigeastcoastsissy
Mar 20, 2005, 2:55 PM
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I've got a '94 Grand Cherokee with a 4.5" suspension lift, 32" tires, fog lights, and a thule cargo basket. This thing's awesome. It's got 152,000 mi. on it, and purr's like a kitten, but with the 318 small block V8, I've got all the power in the world. As soon as I do the full brake upgrade, the thing will be perfect. I can easily fit enough stuff on and in it to climb and paddle for a full weekend. I could probably fit all my bike stuff in it, too...but haven't tried the tri-fecta weekend trip yet.
Bryan
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anykineclimb
Mar 20, 2005, 3:12 PM
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I'm rather partial to Jeep's
I current own an 87 Cherokee with 3" lift and 30" tire.
it can be finicky at times but it is nearly 20. you know how teenagers are.
I would have rather have a mid nineties due to the H.O. engine and more toys available for the engine (aftermarket)
All that said, My next vehicle will most likely be a Toyota. most likely a Taco or possibly a 4Runner. I drive a Landcruiser at work and LOVE the damn thing, comfortable, fast decent mileage and looks cool.
Of course the other vehicle I'm checking out is the new Jeep Liberty Diesel
great mileage and like, 40% more torque. Its more than $8k so its not even on your radar.
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boardline22
Mar 20, 2005, 3:50 PM
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Get a Jeep, excellent car I have owned 2 both the cherokee and grand cherokee, the grand cherokee is for those fancy people, and the cherokee is the one you will use and use, but without the comfrot of the grand (seat warmers, 10 disc CD player, sun roof, etc...) They are both good. I've had more problems with the Dodge durango in the last 2 years then I've had with the Jeeps for 10 years
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boulderinemt
Mar 21, 2005, 3:13 PM
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you must get the dodge ram 2500 turbo diesel. put a shell on the thing, engineer a platform, and your set. mine only cost 17,000 dollars. a small price to pay, when you get the privelege of spending 2.39 a gallon for diesel. :roll:
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abtisme
Mar 21, 2005, 3:38 PM
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for sure go with the cherokee. ive had two, and 96 2wd 4.0L inline 6 and now i drive my 97 4x4 4.0L inline 6. the inline six is the way to go, plenty of low end torque and better gas mileage than most SUVs. plus, its the easiest engine in the world to work on, not like a subaru or a 4runner where everything is so cramped that you have to have a professional to work on it because there is so much stuff in there that you can't see whats going on. the 97 has 117K miles and the 96 has 132K miles and neither of them leak any oil. and if you want cupholders, get a 97 or newer. the older ones have an add on, but its just something to think about if you are gonna be driving long distances. both of my jeeps are manuals and i love the crap out of them. and as long as you aren't 7 feet tall, folding the rear seat down and going to sleep is no problem. (ive had two, not because one died, but because i wanted 4 wheel drive, and now my dad is driving the 96) hope this helps
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yetanotherdave
Mar 21, 2005, 4:06 PM
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I lived in a dodge tradesman panel van for years.
Lots of room, and they're almost as generic and invisible as taxis, which is important if you're in a city.
You can generally get an old white panel van for < $1000, and they're generally cheap to run. Except for the mileage, which sucks.
Advice: thick dark curtains, so your lights inside aren't as visible after dark.
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skinner
Mar 21, 2005, 4:22 PM
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In reply to: jeep gives me hives. those things are reliability-nightmares. they leek oil et.c most unreliable vehicle on the road
I'm creeping up on 300k on my 93 Jeep Grande Cherokee.
In 12 years
(2) fuel pumps due to an additive in Shell Tecroline gas which dissolved seals
(1) electrical problem in the steering column from titlting the steering
wheel for 12 years.
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bigjohnny
Mar 21, 2005, 4:33 PM
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One little warning about Yotas and all imports for that matter. Parts are expensive. My vote is for the Cherokee. If being off-radar is important then definatly the Cherokee. So many of those things on the road it's crazy. Now if you want something a little cooler get yourself an old Grand Wagoneer. Mileage will suck, but it's a big SUV with plenty of U involved. You should be able to pick one up for pretty cheap and keep it running for cheap as well. One thing that will help with mileage with any 4x4 you get is to convert to manual front hubs. Cost you about 500-700$ to do, but you'll see a HUGE improvement in mileage, as much as 50% is some trucks, and you'll save a lot of wear and tear on the front end when you're not four-wheeling.
As far as subies go, AWD is great for icey roads, but does you nothing off-road.
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areuinclimber
Mar 21, 2005, 4:55 PM
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well, i'll chock one up for the 1984-1989 toyota 4-runner. why?
here is why:
-i can fill up in the east bay (sf bay area), drive all the way to tahoe and still have enough gas to get back, and IN to san francisco. yes thats right, the best gas milage i have ever winessed fro a car that size,
- this car open up (windows everywhere, entire rear top section comes off.)
- the engine is the easiest to work on (just look under the hood of one).
- parts for these cars are NOT expensive (to contrast with the above poster)
- rear seats fold down with no effort leave you room to stretch out completely (have done this many times)
- there is a factory roll bar (probably useless but screams to be modified for hanging/mounting gear, a bed, hanging stove, what ever you want)
- the fact that they are all 4wd and wheel as good as a jeep with less than half the problems of one (owned 2 jeeps in the family so far and both have taken/ are currently taking shits).
- for your price range, they are not expensive at all, an excellent condition, low milage rig can be had for $3000. mine has 190,000 and i just drove it from the bay area (hayward) to vegas and back (only filled up once each way mind you).
- comes from the factory with manual locking hubs.
bad points:
- slower then cold dog shit (can probably be fixed, lcengineering.com)
- body's are junk as they rust easily (bodies, not frame)
- up hill is a joke, (doesnt really waste gas when hammering on the throttle though)
- check the head gasket, as the original yota ones are prone to blowing (if your in the bay area i will swap yours out in a weekend for a case a brews!)
and that is about it.
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tigerbythetail
Mar 21, 2005, 5:06 PM
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In reply to: requirements: 1. able to sleep in and be low-profile. i.e. vw campers are out (they're out anyway because of reliability and awful-in-snow) i live in CO. i want to be able to sleep anywhere without someone knowing i'm there 2. 4wd 3. under $7k desireables: (in order of wanted) 1. reliability 2. manual transmission 3. gas mileage
With that in mind here's another look at some of the choices:
Toyota - Can easily sleep in the back of a pickup, they turf pretty well (standard cab is better with the shorter wheelbase) but they hold their value quite well so under $7K means an older, higher mileage vehicle unfortunately. They are very reliable, offer stick shift, and get decent mileage. Your best bet might be to pick up an older suare-body (pre '91) Landcruiser for what you want to spend - it may need some money but it'll get you most anywhere with lots of room; gas mileage is of course a downside.
Jeep - the Cherokee's are great (if you get a good one, and most are), you can pick a used one up for under $7K no problem, the 4WD shift-on-the-fly is handy and they turf offroad like you won't believe (even stock models), the 4.0L HO engine is bulletproof and the one to get - the power of the motor will put any Toyota (or most cars) to shame. Standard transmission is available but harder to find. Unfortunately they aren't very roomy & you'd be hard pressed to sleep inside (especially if you are tall), overall they have a cheaper interior and are noiser inside as well. Pretty sure the GC is automatic only (and not very reliable AFAIK) so cross it off the list.
Subaru - as pointed out go forever but are small and lack true 4WD so cross it off the list.
Others - people I know have had Ford Ranger (they have a 4.0L motor as well), Chevy S-10 and Nissan pickups with varying degrees of success.
One reason the Japanese brands are so coveted and retain their value is because they last (regularly over 200K or 300K miles) and are generally well built. Get a copy of Truck Trader magazine at your local 7-11, Circle K whatever and check it out (or go online to autotrader.com). Two thirds of the magazine is devoted to people selling Ford, Chevy and GM trucks. Toyota and Nissan are small sections (think about that). Good luck and do some online searches for more info if you care to.
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ropesologuy
Mar 21, 2005, 5:39 PM
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F250 4x4 with a canopy is my climbing mobile of choice good in mud rock and snow
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goodwholesomeboy
Mar 21, 2005, 5:58 PM
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i know that you are wanting to keep a low profile but i'd have to recommend and ambulance. i recently got one and it was the best decision of my life.
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uzziah
Mar 23, 2005, 7:12 AM
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In reply to: i know that you are wanting to keep a low profile but i'd have to recommend and ambulance. i recently got one and it was the best decision of my life.
(hope you're not married, dude :) ) -best decision of life........errrr...
neat idea, BUT: i have been an EMT and all i can say is that ambulances are treated worse then nearly any other vehicle on the road simply because: they are turned on, gas slammed on , and their going flying down the streat after they've been sitting for hours without even heating up. so, i think not; but thanks for the advice
here's my issue with the cherokee: can i remove the rear seats??? same question for 1st gen 4runner. i lean towards the 4runner. what i'd like to do is build a platform back there with cabinets underneath to hold gear. mattress on top of platform. i am 6ft, so i'm afraid the jeep is too cramped. if i can't sleep WELL in the car i'll buy, it's not worth it to me to get such a big vehicle. i think with a platfrom in a 1st gen runner, sleeping with my head towards the rear, with the front seats folded down a bit, maybe my feet sticking off a tad, i'd be doing fine. thouhgts?
a friend of mine (anyone know a Ben Gilkonson? yosemite), had an old pacbell van that he sleeped in, but then again he was 5ft nothng :)
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mrsmylie
Mar 23, 2005, 8:37 AM
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my friend just got a nissan frontier w/manual, 4wd, and the dealer found a topper and put in a custom framed padded bed to his specs for around $8500. it only had 75,000 miles on it. my friend found the tacomas consistently ran $2000 more. it was a '99 too.
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cchildre
Mar 23, 2005, 3:06 PM
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I am 5' 11" and I don't have any trouble sleeping in the back of my Cherokee. I can sleep diagonaly and my feet touch the tailgate just a tad. You could very easily remove the rear seat and build a simple platform to replace it. You would have plenty of storage underneath with more than ample room to sleep. Get some extra dark window tinting and you will be set to park and sleep almost anywhere. If your planning on living out of it I would suggest installing a second battery to power the radio and anything else you might utilize while the engine is not running. This could be easily located under the platform you build and a $40 relay will alternately charge the battery, but that could be overcomplicating things for you. 4-runners are nice but the jeeps are just so plentiful and spare parts abound. The 4-wheel drive is a great addition as well.
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ter_bee
Jul 5, 2005, 1:48 AM
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All these people gave free advice, and we never get to hear the decision. What did you do? What's the climbingMobile?
You said, "sleeped." :-)
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lagarita
Jul 5, 2005, 5:02 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Jeep Cherokee!!! the only way to go... best suv ever made. We have two, one we have has 250,000+ miles. They are great off road and have lots of sleeping room. The best years they were made were: 91-93 4.0L and 97 and later 4.0L. Other than that i would look at the 98 Grand Cherokee Limited 5.9L.... These are the CREAM OF THE CROP Jeeps (that are big enough to sleep in) If you have any questions about these jeeps just ask. ok, you've got me interested. my impression on jeeps are that they are absolute reliability disastors. are you saying yours just "ran" that long, or that you actually had few problems during that tme? my experience with jeep is that they leek oil, break down and alltogether are just awful vehicles, off road exluded
I own a 98 Jeep grand cherokee limited 4.0L. I bought it used with 80K on it and didn't think twice about paying $9,000 for it. It has 150K on it now and the only major repairs I did on it were to replace the transmision gasket.
My whole family owns Jeeps; my father just retired a '92 cherokee laraedo with 220K, he replaced it with a '00 grand cherokee sport V8, my sister owns a '98 cherokee sport, and her boyfriend has a 99' grand cherokee laraedo.
Reliability, you can't get more reliable then a jeep straight 6. I don't know the exact statistics but I know that jeeps have been through several wars and keep going.
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climbsomething
Jul 5, 2005, 5:39 AM
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We have a 95 Cherokee, 2 WD, automatic, and while I am not qualified to critique it too much (I don't drive it) it performs admirably as a Big Metal Tent (tm). Not our dream car but it goes vroom, and it has some nice desert pinstriping. Gas mileage is okay, not stellar. We've had issues with it though. There's this design flaw: go flying over a bumpy (but not 4WD) dirt road fast and hard enough and you'll put a nice gash the transmission lines, which is just not cool. Or cheap. I know nothing of this snow thing you speak of. It can crush small cacti and scrub bushes though, but only when they jump in front of the car (heh... I have driven it a few times).
Sleeping in it is a bit uncomfortable if you have 2 people. Alex is 6'1 and it's just a leeeetle too short for him even with the back hatch open. He also tends to steal the mattress/crash pad, blankets and general breathing room from me by way of shoving me into the wheel well...
Prior to that we had an 87 Subaru GL hatchback. It's ugly, it smells, it's loud, and it's small, but it's 4WD. And it's the Adventure Subie and covered in climbing stickers so street cred is guar-an-teed, right? :P
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bandidopeco
Jul 5, 2005, 7:38 AM
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Toyota: The choice of the Taliban.
Aside from that I own a Subaru, and it's done very well. Good milage, great in the snow and long lasting.
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ninja_climber
Jul 5, 2005, 9:37 PM
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Jeep Wrangler?
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vulcan
Jul 6, 2005, 4:55 AM
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I own an 88 Toyota Truck. Standard Cab, manual with a camper shell. I love my truck. Get a Four banger. They are the most reliable, and get the best gas. I don't see why anybody would want anything else. I just don't have any respect for jeeps, they are made poorly. Toyota trucks are engineered superbly. Cheap, relaible, easy on gas, good off road or snow or mud or water.
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