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reno
May 31, 2005, 7:56 AM
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Christina:
First, let me offer my best wishes to your brother for a speedy recovery. Glad he's gonna make it.
Now then... to your inflammatory comments. I take it you're not a climber yourself, right?
In reply to: I understand the fact that they f--- up but comments were made such as "I almost feel sorry for the guy", and "he must not have been injuried very badly"
He's alive, right? Ergo, his injuries were not that serious.
In reply to: NOW third of all, WHY WAS THE ROUTE NOT MARKED AS A 60M ROUTE?????
Why should the route setters be blamed because of someone else's mistake?
It's real simple, Christina: your brother and partner took the risk of climbing, and made mistakes. Then someone got hurt. There is no blame to be assigned other than to your brother and his partner. Sucks, but in this world, you gotta take responsibility for your actions.
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bobd1953
May 31, 2005, 2:35 PM
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In reply to: It's real simple, Christina: your brother and partner took the risk of climbing, and made mistakes. Then someone got hurt. There is no blame to be assigned other than to your brother and his partner. Sucks, but in this world, you gotta take responsibility for your actions.
Reno -you might feel different if was your brother, sister or friend. Having kids myself and losing a nephew to a car accident, I am glad this was not a fatal accident and that he didn't lose his life due to his or his belayer mistake.
The other kid who died on Saturday in Boulder Canyon wasn't as lucky.
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killclimbz
May 31, 2005, 2:57 PM
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Christina,
Sorry about what happened to your brother and I wish him a speedy recovery. I know his injuries are serious, but be thankful. Most times in this sport when you make a mistake such as this, the price you pay for it is your life. He dodged a bullet. Very lucky indeed.
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tradmanclimbs
May 31, 2005, 2:58 PM
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It is a fairly common mistake and it has happened to some pretty high level climbers. It is too bad that it happened and it is good that he survived. there is no need for sarcasem but a healthy reminder to self not to make the same mistake is definatly a good thing.
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reno
May 31, 2005, 3:29 PM
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Bob:
I am glad it wasn't worse as well. Belive me, I've seen more death and disfigurement in my time than probably anyone else on this website, by the nature of my work.
That doesn't change two simple facts:
1. The injury was preventable.
2. There is nobody to blame but the people that were on the rope that day.
The rest is irrelevant.... "Why wasn't it marked 60 meters!??!?!?" etc.
Again, like I said in my first post in this thread, and like I will continue to say: "I'm very happy it wasn't any worse than it was, and I wish for a speedy recovery from injuries."
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boadman
May 31, 2005, 4:29 PM
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Since when has 11c become a beginner route? This is one of the most common climbing accidents, across experience levels. I have a feeling that the climber had as much experience as most of us on this site. His accident is tragic, although he was fortunate to have gotten off as easily as he did. It serves as a good reminder to the rest of us to double check before we climb. Also, another friend of mine got dropped on Animal Magnetism. She had tied a figure eight in the end of the knot, but it inverted when it reached the belay device and slipped through. She walked away with some bruises, but it could have been fatal also. Barrel knots require less than a minute to tie, and could definately save a lot of time/anguish in the long run.
In reply to: In reply to: I understand the fact that they f--- up but comments were made such as "I almost feel sorry for the guy", and "he must not have been injuried very badly" I appreciate everybody who has wished his speedy recovery but those who make comments such as those listed above really need to think before they speak....BOTH parties do have some fault but seriously it was just an accident so whatever I dont care I drove up here from texas to be with my brother so i have to go Completely understood, but it was an accident that didn't need to happen. I'll agree that the comment "I almost feel sorry for the guy" was a bit harsh, but the kind of mistake that the climbers made was completely unnecessary. Your brother is probably a beginning climber, or his belayer was a beginning climber and didn't do the double-check on all systems. These kinds of accidents usually happen to only the inexperienced or the inattentive and it makes climbers nuts that they still occur because they don't need to. Another thing to suggest is to mark the halfway point of the rope. If the halfway point feeds through the belay device and the climber still hasn't topped out on the route, then the rope will definitely not be long enough! Again, our best to your brother for a speedy recovery. |
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takeme
May 31, 2005, 4:31 PM
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In reply to: I almost feel sorry for the guy. Perhaps he would have been allright had he taken the 5 seconts to tie a knot in the end of his rope.
I'm gonna have to agree with some other people that this is just an asinine thing to say. I don't believe there is a such a thing as a climber who never makes mistakes. We've all dodged bullets whether we know it or not. The fact that some contributers to this thread apparently feel (as evidenced by their comments and attitudes) that their experience makes them immune to mistakes is what scares me.
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mother_sheep
May 31, 2005, 4:48 PM
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Skibby:
In reply to: The climber was climbing a route just east of the route called Cannabis. |
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killclimbz
May 31, 2005, 4:54 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Since when has 11c become a beginner route? I had no specifics regarding the route he was on. How did you arrive at this conclusion?
There is very little at Animal World that I would consider a beginner route.
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mother_sheep
May 31, 2005, 4:57 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Since when has 11c become a beginner route? I had no specifics regarding the route he was on. How did you arrive at this conclusion? There is very little at Animal World that I would consider a beginner route.
Does it matter? The accident has nothing to do with the route's rating.
Not trying to sound crass.
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killclimbz
May 31, 2005, 5:08 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Since when has 11c become a beginner route? I had no specifics regarding the route he was on. How did you arrive at this conclusion? There is very little at Animal World that I would consider a beginner route. Does it matter? The accident has nothing to do with the route's rating. Not trying to sound crass.
Overall I would say no. Many have theorized that this was a beginner mistake, which may not be the case.
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bobd1953
May 31, 2005, 5:16 PM
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In reply to: Overall I would say no. Many have theorized that this was a beginner mistake, which may not be the case.
Ask Lynn Hill and Wolfgang about tying knots.
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tradmanclimbs
May 31, 2005, 5:18 PM
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Lyn hill forgot to tie in properly and decked. many others have been lowered off the rope. some beginners, some experts. the people who think that they are too cool to scrw up are the ones that lable it as a beginners mistake. The fact is that the better you are and the more you climb generaly the more casual you get. It takes a near miss every now and then to get someone who climbs daily to wake up and pay attention to all the basic stuff.
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killclimbz
May 31, 2005, 5:24 PM
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In reply to: Ask Lynn Hill and Wolfgang about tying knots.
Yep.
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christinagurvin
Jun 1, 2005, 3:18 AM
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This is Christina, Bryce's sister AGAIN. Look for starters BRYCE IS NOT A BEGINNER CLIMBER he has been climbing for many years, my dad does a lot of work with the colorado mountain club and has been teaching bryce this stuff since he was twelve. As for the belayer I have no idea of his climbing experience, and yes bryce usually always checks everything more than twice, however I wasnt there so i dont know what went wrong this time, Im sure he was counting on his belayer to not let him fall, but as our family is concearned nobody is placing blame on either party we are THANKFUL that bryce is alive...and as to the comment that "he is still alive and ergo his injuries weren't serious" you can go to hell. Because why dont you go fall off a cliff and crush your heel fracture your back and your other ankle and a wrist, and not be able to get up and go to the bathroom by yourself or not be able to walk for 3-6 months and have to have pretty much a babysitter all day?!?!? NOW YOU TELL ME HIS INJURIES ARENT SERIOUS!!!! Yes fatal accidents are horrible but when you dont survive thats it your not going through hell and truama, your not in constant pain and feel helpless...Dont you dare tell me his injuries were not serious becuase they def were, yes he doesnt have internal injuries but he has and will suffer from pain, and then the fact he knows this could have been avoided, and as for me being a climber, No i dont climb but like i said my brother and my father are very much into it and i have been around it enough to know all the little things that should and shouldnt happen so me being a climber has absolutley nothing to do with this. And another thing why wouldnt the route be marked?? Im saying this not to blame but my brother is starting to question if the rope ran out or if the belayer just dropped him on accident!!! So questions are still in the air, and if the routes were marked then maybe this wouldn't have happened...there are a lot of what ifs but like i said my family is not placing and blame on anyone what happened happened and right now were concentrating on how to pay these bills becuase bryce is not insured and concentrating on his recoery so thanks again to those that are wishing his best but im sorry once agian if this was harsh im just very stressed.
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wings
Jun 1, 2005, 3:38 AM
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Christina,
My advice to you would be to ignore this website and go keep your brother company. He is likely very bored lying in the hospital.
Best of luck to your brother on his recovery.
- Seyil
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couchwarrior
Jun 1, 2005, 4:46 AM
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In reply to: Christina, My advice to you would be to ignore this website and go keep your brother company. He is likely very bored lying in the hospital. Best of luck to your brother on his recovery. - Seyil
I tend to agree - spend your energy supporting your brother's recovery and remember the quote about the foolishness of getting in a pissing match with a skunk. Don't worry about the opinions of a few people on this site. If bull shit were music, rc.com would be a brass band.
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philfell
Jun 1, 2005, 4:55 AM
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Christina,
What do you mean when you say the route should have been marked a 60m route? In the guidebook, with spray paint at the bottom of the climb??Many routes aren't marked as needing a 60m rope to lower off of. It's not the responsibility of the guidebook author to watch out for the climbers safety, (sometimes guidebooks are actually wrong with their lower/rappelling info.) It is up to the climbers to watch out for themselves. Also anymore 60m ropes are becoming more of a standard size for many newer routes, many now you need a 70m.
To answer your question about if the rope actually ran out or the belayer dropped your brother. Read the second post of this thread, Boadman said he was around when this happened and says you can barely get down safely with a 60m rope.
Also please go back and re-read your first post. You claim that no one is at fault here and it is an accident. With this kind of thinking it's very hard to learn how to prevent others from doing the same thing.
I'm not trying to insult you or your brother and I realize that emotions are very high right now, but sometimes we need to take a step back. Being defensive isn't going to help anyone, taking a few deep breaths and reflecting could help prevent this happening to someone else.
Best of luck with rehab.
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cindylou
Jun 1, 2005, 2:23 PM
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In reply to: I'm not trying to insult you or your brother and I realize that emotions are very high right now, but sometimes we need to take a step back. Being defensive isn't going to help anyone, taking a few deep breaths and reflecting could help prevent this happening to someone else. Best of luck with rehab.
Your absolutely right, Philfell. Sometimes we need to take a step back and not only reflect on how to prevent this from happening again, but also to allow the injured climber and his family/friends to feel whatever emotions they want. So step back Philfell, and reflect. Be emotional, Christina. And while you're at it, give your brother a hug, tell him I'm glad he's alive and I hope he has a speedy recovery. My fiancee wasn't as lucky as your brother.
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boadman
Jun 1, 2005, 3:07 PM
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In reply to: Christina, To answer your question about if the rope actually ran out or the belayer dropped your brother. Read the second post of this thread, Boadman said he was around when this happened and says you can barely get down safely with a 60m rope. Best of luck with rehab.
Actually, I wasn't at the crag, sorry if that was implied in my previous post, I was on my way to climb at Castle Rock. The route just east of Cannabis Sportiva is "Joint Venture." The route is 11a with the right hand finish, and 12a with the left. Here is what climbing boulder has to say about the route:
Pro: This route can be done in 1 or two pitches, but there are 4 bolts per pitch. A 60m rope is necessary to get to the ground from the top anchors.
Cannabis Sportiva is marked as needing a 60m in Rolofson's Topo, I didn't check the Falcon Guide.
So, the moral of the story is, yet again, tie a barrel knot in the end of your rope if you're not both tied in, because even experienced climbers can neglect to check the topo. I know I've made this mistake many times.
Good luck on the recovery, hopefully you'll be climbing again soon.
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reno
Jun 1, 2005, 4:58 PM
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In reply to: ...and as to the comment that "he is still alive and ergo his injuries weren't serious" you can go to hell. Because why dont you go fall off a cliff and crush your heel fracture your back and your other ankle and a wrist, and not be able to get up and go to the bathroom by yourself or not be able to walk for 3-6 months and have to have pretty much a babysitter all day?!?!? NOW YOU TELL ME HIS INJURIES ARENT SERIOUS!!!!
Christina:
Deep breath, girl. Slow down a minute, and just breathe. You've had a rough few days.
Let me explain a few things, please? First, everyone here on this website, even if we've never met your brother, is glad that he's alive and will heal up. All of us. And we're actually good folks, for the most part. If we could have been there when your brother fell, we'd all have put aside what we were doing to offer help, no matter the cost. Heck, if it took one of us giving up all his or her gear to make your brother safe, we'd have done it. Honest. Keep that in mind the next time you tell one of us to "go to hell."
My comment about "serious" should be taken in context... it honestly could be much worse. A fracture to the heel, or the vertebrae is painful and will cause some challenges in daily life for a while, but try to think of this as "It could have been worse." He could easily have a large liver injury, a ruptured spleen a pelvis fracture, paralyzed (quadraplegic or paraplegic,) coma, or dead. It honestly could be MUCH, much worse, and I would suggest that you try to remember that.
If I were your brother, I'd be thankful that I was alive. If it were me, I'd be thankful that worrying about a sitter, helping him to the toilet, etc. were the things I had to be concerned about... for I could very easily be worrying about "How will I be able to take care of a family member who is going to be on a ventilator for the rest of his life?"
Admittedly, I could have worded my comments better. As a paramedic who deals with gross disfigurment, lethal injury, and permanent disability on a daily basis, I tend to think a bit different than many others... to me, a broken bone isn't all that serious, but to others (yourself included,) I can see how a fracture is serious. So I apoloize if I sounded uncaring.
Positive outlook, look for the silver lining, half-full.... call it what you wish, but I can promise you that if YOU have a strong, positive view of this event, it will help your brother heal faster and better. And that's what you're really after, isn't it?
Give him our best, and tell him we're all pulling for him to heal up quick and come back to climb with us.
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reno
Jun 1, 2005, 5:06 PM
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Sorry... double post.
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reno
Jun 1, 2005, 5:06 PM
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Sorry.... double post.
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christinagurvin
Jun 2, 2005, 11:05 PM
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Well it was a crushed heel on one leg and a fractured ankle on the other and two fractures vertebrate and a fractured wrist to be clear it wasnt just one lttle ol fracture, and your right his injuries could have been a lot more serious than they are right now but it doesnt stop the pain, and your right im very emotional when it comes to my familys pain as it should be...and like Ive said Im very grateful to those that are wishing bryce a speedy recovery and i know yall have best interest at heart and im thankful that i can sit here and argue about his condition becuase its that a condition nothing permenate like death, so once again im sorry that i went off, but im from texas and like the weather my temper gets heated up real quick, but bryce is actually do a lot better movement wise, however he is now really sick after the surgery like an infection or something that they needed to prevent before the surgery and didnt so we will see what happens with that but again thank you all for your blessings it does mean a lot and i havent over looked them, but the bad comments tend to make me freak out when i should concentrate on the good things, but thanks a lot ill let him know that yall are all thinking about him!
christina
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