|
wjca
Aug 1, 2005, 5:35 PM
Post #26 of 102
(10244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 27, 2005
Posts: 7545
|
In reply to: If you take your kids into snake country, and don't like that there are snakes there, you better either teach them how to stay safe, learn how to handle and relocate poisonous snakes, or leave. Idiots like you are the reason so much wilderness gets spoiled in this country; "But it's not faaaaairrr, the outdoors isn't safe for me, we have to make it safe." So what if you see a few more than normal? I saw 4 bears one weekend in NM, that didn't give me the right to start shooting at them.
You saw 4 bears in one weekend and didn't shoot them. What a waste. You past up a whole shitload of money in gall bladders alone, not to mention 4 sweet rugs or coats. Nothing is as classy in the winter as a real bear skin coat.
|
|
|
|
|
hugepedro
Aug 1, 2005, 6:05 PM
Post #27 of 102
(10244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 28, 2002
Posts: 2875
|
Thank GOD I can rate posts today! Gave out all 5 in just this 1 thread.
What I find strange is that you thought killing the snakes was your best option. As others have said, you could have easily captured them and relocated them.
We encounter rattlers all the time at some of the places I climb, and often there are children present. We take the opportunity to teach the kids about the snakes - what their rattle sounds like, what they look like, and what to do when they encounter one. Then we pick up a stick and move the snake. No big deal. Everyone's happy, and the kids get a nature lesson. What did you teach your kids that night?
|
|
|
|
|
jabo
Aug 1, 2005, 6:19 PM
Post #28 of 102
(10244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 30, 2004
Posts: 9
|
This is a response to landgolier. People have just as much of a right in the woods as the copper heads. I can tell you are city boy and you don't know shit about snakes. If I run up on a poisonous snake far out in the woods I avoid it b/c 9 out of 10 times you'll never see it again. Its a completely different story if its around your house or campsite. Killing them was the wise thing to do. Oh by the way where is snake country located on the map.
|
|
|
|
|
thorne
Deleted
Aug 1, 2005, 6:39 PM
Post #29 of 102
(10244 views)
Shortcut
Registered:
Posts:
|
In reply to: Thank GOD I can rate posts today! Gave out all 5 in just this 1 thread. What I find strange is that you thought killing the snakes was your best option. As others have said, you could have easily captured them and relocated them. We encounter rattlers all the time at some of the places I climb, and often there are children present. We take the opportunity to teach the kids about the snakes - what their rattle sounds like, what they look like, and what to do when they encounter one. Then we pick up a stick and move the snake. No big deal. Everyone's happy, and the kids get a nature lesson. What did you teach your kids that night?
If you found 5 rattlers on your property in one night and regularly had a lot of people visit, would just relocate the snakes and say "no big deal"?
|
|
|
|
|
stevep
Aug 1, 2005, 6:52 PM
Post #30 of 102
(10244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 20, 2004
Posts: 93
|
I too generally support the live and let live philosophy, but I'd be a little nervous if this happened with my 3 yr old daughter around. And it has nothing to with parental responsibility. I don't want to have to keep her in a bubble.
And while copperheads may not be fatal to adults, I would take that chance with a small child.
As far as relocating goes, I don't think it's quite as easy as "well, I'll just pick it up and move it". Trying to do that 5 times is likely to get you bit, unless you've got experience and the proper tools.
|
|
|
|
|
j_ung
Aug 1, 2005, 6:56 PM
Post #31 of 102
(10244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690
|
The location of the snake, i.e., Del's front yard vs. the middle of nowheresville has zero bearing on whether or not you should kill snakes. You killed snakes because three things happened:
1. Snakes showed up where people were playing.
2. You freaked at the unusual quantity of snakes. (This is giving you the benefit of the doubt, since you actually said that you would have killed the first one, had you a weapon at hand.)
3. You missed the fact that picking the snakes up with the end of the hoe and putting them in a trashcan or similar receptical would have removed the snakes from the equation as completely as killing them did.
There's only one logical conclusion to draw here and that's that killing things that scare you isn't the only way to stay safe. Your phobia -- an irrational fear -- of snakes made you kill them, when controlling them would have sufficed.
And those of you saying that a snake's geography is the deciding factor in whether the snake lives or dies are overlooking the fact that it's also pretty easy to change the snake's geography... instead of it's state of being.
Move the snake. Don't kill the snake. It doesn't matter where you are.
|
|
|
|
|
wjca
Aug 1, 2005, 7:15 PM
Post #32 of 102
(10244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 27, 2005
Posts: 7545
|
What if the snakes are really vengeful cobras like in that story Ricki Ticki Whatever? You can't relocate snakes like that, and who has a pet mongoose to take of them? Really? Sometimes, a hoe is the best thing.
BTW, cotton mouths are extremely agressive snakes, extremely. Anyone who disagrees, has not been chased by one. Unlike a copperhead, getting within a foot or so will be a strike, almost guaranteed. Cotton mouth bite on a three-year old's leg = dead three year old. In other words, dead snake. Trying to teach a three year old the difference between an extremely dangerous snake and one the ain't so bad is a lost cause. Kill the snake, and teach the child that all snakes are dangerous and to be avoided until they are old enough to be able to distinguish the difference. To do otherwise is like teaching a three year old to swim in a pool then letting them make the decision whether or not to swim down the Great Falls of the Potomac. Most normal parents teach the child to swim, but only with adult supervision and permission, until they are old enough to make the decision themselves as to when and where is safe to swim. I don't see a difference with anything that can be inherently dangerous, snakes included.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
j_ung
Aug 1, 2005, 8:08 PM
Post #34 of 102
(10244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690
|
In reply to: What if the snakes are really vengeful cobras like in that story Ricki Ticki Whatever? You can't relocate snakes like that, and who has a pet mongoose to take of them? Really? Sometimes, a hoe is the best thing.
Oh, yeah... those have to die, for sure.
In reply to: BTW, cotton mouths are extremely agressive snakes, extremely. Anyone who disagrees, has not been chased by one. Unlike a copperhead, getting within a foot or so will be a strike, almost guaranteed. Cotton mouth bite on a three-year old's leg = dead three year old. In other words, dead snake.
Kill it or move it far away -- either way the snake is gone and your spore is safe to walk the earth and propagate your genes. Why not let the snake live?
I repeat: other than laziness or irrational fear, there simply is no reason to kill snakes.
|
|
|
|
|
j_ung
Aug 1, 2005, 8:13 PM
Post #35 of 102
(10244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690
|
WOW! Now that... is strange. If you click and drag her, you can do all sorts of weird things. Twirl her around. Throw her. Strange, indeed.
|
|
|
|
|
elvislegs
Aug 1, 2005, 9:30 PM
Post #36 of 102
(10244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2002
Posts: 3148
|
In reply to: WOW! Now that... is strange. If you click and drag her, you can do all sorts of weird things. Twirl her around. Throw her. Strange, indeed.
that's just the kind of ho you want around when you are camping.
|
|
|
|
|
ajkclay
Aug 1, 2005, 10:48 PM
Post #37 of 102
(10244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 9, 2002
Posts: 1567
|
you know, the snakes were there for a reason other than to attack humans, and it would have had a lot to do with food...
so, there was something in the area attracting them.
Do you follow me so far?
Okay, so being the knowledgeable well-informed country person that you are (you made the distinction between city vs country folk), you kill four snakes in the area thereby making it safe for everyone to bring their young children and let them roam safely and without having to learn about the potential dangers that exist within nature right? I mean, heck, at this rate, 4 snakes per day per redneck, there won't be too much nature left to threaten them in a few years, will there? Thankfully, we are not alone in our endeavours, the Japanese are ridding the oceans of those dangerous whales that used to sink sooo many ships just like in Moby Dick, and Poachers in Africa are gettting rid of Elephants and Rhinos, those things have to be dangerous too huh?
Wrong! All you have done is make room for more snakes than you cleared. How I hear your country grown superbrain wonder? Well, while the gap left by your heroic deeds leaves a hole in the Circle of Life for a short time, the food stocks have a chance to replenish, or get fatter, increasing the attraction and number of snakes that the area can sustain. As food begins running out and snakes look for richer areas of food to stock up guess where they are likely to end up? hmmm, I wonder.
So, Mr I-am-from-the-country-so-I-know-better-than-everyone, unless you plan to kill all snakes then all your senseless act has done is make room for more snakes and perhaps even more poisonous varieties!
I'm confused about who exactly doesn't know shit about snakes, or how nature works. What, just because you consider yourself a country person and have maybe seen a lot of snakes, this qualifies you as an expert? That's like a city person claiming to be an expert on architecture because they see buildings a lot. I doubt this though, your tone suggests you are as much a city person as those you attack; a real country person would not think it strange to see wildlife.
And... snake country used to be where you live in the city, remember? You told us this in your first post, you found a snake when you got back to where your son was staying... It has been forced back by human settlement, but that's okay, we really should get rid of them from everywhere humans go, just in case huh?
I guess snake country must be in the zoo, where your daughter can't get bitten... or could she? hmmmmmm Maybe we should kill them too, just to be safe.
And the other arguement from someone about how it's pointless to try teaching your kids about avoiding snakes because if they had been cottonmouths they would have attacked is just weird: so you kill copperheads to protect your child from cottonmouths? No, you teach your child to be more aware of their surroundings so that they do not tramp around with their heads up their asses so that they can get within a few feet of a snake! Geez! It aint rocket science folks!
I dunno how you do things over there, but here in Australia where it's rare to actually find a snake that is not deadly, we just watch where we are going! But then, I guess, it would be easier to just kill them all.
I thought The Whacking Day episode of The Simpsons was fictional!
|
|
|
|
|
jv
Aug 2, 2005, 12:16 AM
Post #38 of 102
(10244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 26, 2003
Posts: 363
|
I like snakes, and I'm a tree hugger, and I have had encounters with many rattlesnakes (no copperheads out west) over the years and not seen fit to kill one. But I see nothing wrong with this guy's decision.
The owner of this dwelling concurred in the act of destroying the snakes. That is fairly common practice around places where people live, work and recreate on a daily basis because with lots of poisonous snakes around, the chances of being bitten are decreased by killing them.
Relocating doesn't really work for snakes that are instinctually confined to a fairly small range around their birth place. Unless you take them very far away, they'll turn up again in their wanderings.
Copperheads are not endangered, at least the last time I checked which was a very long time ago. Like all snakes their habitat has diminished, but they are nowhere near being an endangered species.
So I've got no problem with this guy's judgment, except when it comes to bragging about it in a forum like this.
JV
|
|
|
|
|
wjca
Aug 2, 2005, 12:56 PM
Post #39 of 102
(10244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 27, 2005
Posts: 7545
|
In reply to: No, you teach your child to be more aware of their surroundings so that they do not tramp around with their heads up their asses so that they can get within a few feet of a snake! Geez! It aint rocket science folks! I dunno how you do things over there, but here in Australia where it's rare to actually find a snake that is not deadly, we just watch where we are going! But then, I guess, it would be easier to just kill them all. I thought The Whacking Day episode of The Simpsons was fictional!
Try teaching that to a 2 year old, dickhead, all they do is run around with their heads up their asses. A child's head doesn't pop out of their ass until they are at least 5 or 6, then you can actually teach them something about personal awareness and responsibility. Until then, that job remains with the parent.
And you're right, you don't know how things work over here, so STFU.
|
|
|
|
|
taualum23
Aug 2, 2005, 1:07 PM
Post #40 of 102
(10244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 13, 2002
Posts: 2370
|
In reply to: WOW! Now that... is strange. If you click and drag her, you can do all sorts of weird things. Twirl her around. Throw her. Strange, indeed.
Same thing, someone I'd rather drag around like that....
http://www.big-boys.com/articles/georgerag.html
|
|
|
|
|
indigenousalien
Aug 2, 2005, 1:40 PM
Post #41 of 102
(10244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 29, 2005
Posts: 6
|
In reply to: The owner of this dwelling concurred in the act of destroying the snakes. JV
What if this guy's tent was pitched right on top of the snake's dwelling? How would you like it if a giant from outer space came and sat on your house, and then stepped on you when you ran out screaming because the roof caved in on you?
Do you think the snake knows this is a dwelling? Did the snake acceed to the local zoning laws and property taxes? I don't think the snake can read a survey map, so you should probably at least talk with it first so it knows where the property line is--then, next time, you can just bust it for tresspassing.
And no, snakes are not endangered yet, but neither was the dodo, until a bunch of white assholes just started killing them because they didn't like the funny way they walked.
|
|
|
|
|
ajkclay
Aug 2, 2005, 1:49 PM
Post #42 of 102
(10244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 9, 2002
Posts: 1567
|
In reply to: In reply to: No, you teach your child to be more aware of their surroundings so that they do not tramp around with their heads up their asses so that they can get within a few feet of a snake! Geez! It aint rocket science folks! I dunno how you do things over there, but here in Australia where it's rare to actually find a snake that is not deadly, we just watch where we are going! But then, I guess, it would be easier to just kill them all. I thought The Whacking Day episode of The Simpsons was fictional! Try teaching that to a 2 year old, dickhead, all they do is run around with their heads up their asses. A child's head doesn't pop out of their ass until they are at least 5 or 6, then you can actually teach them something about personal awareness and responsibility. Until then, that job remains with the parent. And you're right, you don't know how things work over here, so STFU.
my, touchy little redneck aren't we?
So, you want to let a 2 year old wander around in the woods unaccompanied? And you call me a dickhead? You don't deserve to be in charge of children, even if they are just going to end up being moronic killing machines.
No wonder you want to kill everything, it allows you to shirk your responsibilities as a parent and let your little shits run amok while you sit back on your big fat kentucky fried ass picking your nose while getting drunk with your wife/sister.
Sounds like I never could understand how things work in Hicksville, and if your way of thinking is anything to go by, I don't want to.
Yeeehaw! Kill 'em all!
Yeah, good on ya!
|
|
|
|
|
landgolier
Aug 2, 2005, 2:26 PM
Post #43 of 102
(10244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 3, 2005
Posts: 714
|
Yep, I'm a total city boy. 'Cept that I grew up in (what was then) rural florida, in the stomping grounds of the most poisonous snake in north america (the coral snake, though to be fair you have to damn near stick your finger down one's throat to get bitten), as well as two species of rattlers and the cottonmouths somebody on this thread is so excited about. I learned about snakes from the time I was little, and by the time I was 18 I knew how to deal with both venomous and nonvenomous snakes using a snake hook and all the other appropriate tools, as well as what to do in the backcountry when you don't have that crap around. I worked at a nature center, often doing educational snake programs aimed at reducing the irrational fear of snakes and teaching people that killing them is stupid, and for a long time I kept nonvenomous snakes at home.
The bottom line is that unless a snake is coiled to strike, you can't get away, and you have either a long, sharp tool or a pistol full of rat shot, it is never appropriate to kill a snake, and even then you are probably putting yourself in more danger by trying. People who kill snakes are just ignorant, like the fool who claimed to have been chased by one. No snake in the US can move faster than about 4 miles an hour, which means that my great grandma might get bit but my grandma could definitely outrun it. Snakebite kills less than 4 people per year in the US, and only about 1 out of every 2000 venomous snakebites is fatal. About half of snakebite deaths involve provocation (like freaking out and hacking at the thing with a hoe in the dark) or handling of the snake.
Bottom line, if you kill snakes, you are a dumbass. I don't care where you are or what the circumstances are, snakes simply aren't a meaningful threat to your safety unless you are doing stupid things. Your children are not going to die from snakebite; statistically, they are about 1000 times more likely to drown and 20 times more likely to be hit by lightning.
In reply to: This is a response to landgolier. People have just as much of a right in the woods as the copper heads. I can tell you are city boy and you don't know s--- about snakes. If I run up on a poisonous snake far out in the woods I avoid it b/c 9 out of 10 times you'll never see it again. Its a completely different story if its around your house or campsite. Killing them was the wise thing to do. Oh by the way where is snake country located on the map. |
|
|
|
|
matixa
Aug 2, 2005, 3:02 PM
Post #44 of 102
(10244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 7, 2004
Posts: 85
|
In reply to: In reply to: No, you teach your child to be more aware of their surroundings so that they do not tramp around with their heads up their asses so that they can get within a few feet of a snake! Geez! It aint rocket science folks! I dunno how you do things over there, but here in Australia where it's rare to actually find a snake that is not deadly, we just watch where we are going! But then, I guess, it would be easier to just kill them all. I thought The Whacking Day episode of The Simpsons was fictional! And you're right, you don't know how things work over here, so STFU.
:lol: The one statement in this thread that is DEAD ON CORRECT!! Thanks for the laugh!!
|
|
|
|
|
austinclmbr
Aug 2, 2005, 3:12 PM
Post #45 of 102
(10244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 2, 2005
Posts: 214
|
Hey I got an idea. Let's not even think about how much habitat WE have taken away from the snakes and thier prey species. Let's NOT THINK about how humans are a PART of evolution NOT IN CONTROL OF IT. Let's not bother with the conecptual idea that by killing off a few of anything may be mother natures intended occurance of events.
Perhaps we humans do not know best and would be better off just worrying about ourselves instead of others.
Notice the topic of this thread is STRANGE and not "should I kill a lot of snakes ?"
I for one back up the actions in this particular situation
|
|
|
|
|
motty
Aug 2, 2005, 3:51 PM
Post #46 of 102
(10244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 1, 2005
Posts: 10
|
in reply to those who said that killing snakes to protect those around you (kids in particular) is ok. well, looks like you're not ready for the wild. if you want to be out there, love it. respect it.
case not, i suggest the gentleman who posted this thread to stick to local gyms (along with the rest of his family), just for safety's sake.
and there was this post that said if you found snakes at your property, you'd kill it. well, don't forget, that place IS their property. How would you feel if you were slithering round your home and someone barged in to rip you a new asshole?
|
|
|
|
|
motty
Aug 2, 2005, 3:56 PM
Post #47 of 102
(10244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 1, 2005
Posts: 10
|
my, touchy little redneck aren't we?
So, you want to let a 2 year old wander around in the woods unaccompanied? And you call me a dickhead? You don't deserve to be in charge of children, even if they are just going to end up being moronic killing machines.
No wonder you want to kill everything, it allows you to shirk your responsibilities as a parent and let your little s--- run amok while you sit back on your big fat kentucky fried ass picking your nose while getting drunk with your wife/sister.
Sounds like I never could understand how things work in Hicksville, and if your way of thinking is anything to go by, I don't want to.
Yeeehaw! Kill 'em all!
Yeah, good on ya!
Ahahahaha. i gotta second you on that
|
|
|
|
|
indigenousalien
Aug 2, 2005, 3:57 PM
Post #48 of 102
(10244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 29, 2005
Posts: 6
|
In reply to: Try teaching that to a 2 year old, dickhead, all they do is run around with their heads up their asses. A child's head doesn't pop out of their ass until they are at least 5 or 6, then you can actually teach them something about personal awareness and responsibility. Until then, that job remains with the parent.
my three year old can already play Bach on the piano. And if i recall correctly, Herculeas took care of two snake when he was still in swaddling clothes. your kid must have been conceived with a weak sperm.
|
|
|
|
|
onsight_endorphines
Aug 2, 2005, 4:33 PM
Post #50 of 102
(10244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 14, 2004
Posts: 226
|
YOU WENT CAMPING, THERE WERE SNAKES, SO YOU KILLED THEM.
SouthernRidgeRunner, how do you justify this???
|
|
|
|
|
|
