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jabtocrag
Oct 24, 2005, 12:32 AM
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In reply to: Close counts in horse shoes, hand grenades and tactical nuclear weopens. It does NOT count in red point attempts 8^)
You're missing the point...a free climb is defined as:
To climb rock using only hands and feet to ascend (ie. without recourse to artificial aids).
This is exactly what Burke did!!
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curt
Oct 24, 2005, 12:39 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Close counts in horse shoes, hand grenades and tactical nuclear weopens. It does NOT count in red point attempts 8^) You're missing the point...a free climb is defined as: To climb rock using only hands and feet to ascend (ie. without recourse to artificial aids). This is exactly what Burke did!!
Exactly. For some strange reason it appears that only people who started climbing before "sport" climbing existed understand what the actual definition of free climbing is. How odd.
tradmanclimbs, please, once again, get it through your head that free climbing a pitch and leading a pitch free are two different things.
Curt
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fracture
Oct 24, 2005, 2:22 AM
Post #53 of 62
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In reply to: I get to the last pitch and for whatever reason be it weather , fatigue, aproacheing darkness, sudden lack of sac or whatever, I grab gear and haul my butt up past the two bolts at the crux, take a hang, cuss a bit and call myself a wimp. then i lower back down to the belay, shake out again and top rope back up past that pesky crux to the turkey ledge anchors. I DID NOT FREE CLIMB POD :roll:
Suggesting a free yoyo ascent is not free climbing is just nonsense.
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tradmanclimbs
Oct 24, 2005, 2:23 AM
Post #54 of 62
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Curt. top ropeing may be free climbing but it is not leading and does not count in the FA dept.. I have top roped all kinds of shit that i can't lead and I am sure you have as well unless you are a lying SOS. leading the great roof once is a whole lot different than leading it as part of a single or multi day single push. scott could not do it. he may be a thousand times harder than i am but he did NOT accomplish the same feat that Tommy and Lynn did. Beth Also accmplished a cleaner acent by being part of a TEAM that pulled it off. It's just like the superbowl. If you just sat on the bench for the whole game you get the ring but if you got cut or traded or whatever before the big game you don't. It ain't easy or nice or soft and fuzzy politicaly corect but it most definatly Fcking Is the hard cold truth. I would think a good republican like yourself would understand the black and white win lose factor represented in this argument?
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fracture
Oct 24, 2005, 2:23 AM
Post #55 of 62
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In reply to: For some strange reason it appears that only people who started climbing before "sport" climbing existed understand what the actual definition of free climbing is. How odd.
There are some exceptions.... ;)
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fracture
Oct 24, 2005, 2:28 AM
Post #56 of 62
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In reply to: Curt. top ropeing may be free climbing but it is not leading and does not count in the FA dept.
Ok, but you also have now claimed that yoyoing "does not count".
It's quite ironic for someone with "trad" in their user-name to have such a horrible misconception of such a fundamental part of free climbing tradition.
In reply to: I would think a good republican like yourself would understand the black and white win lose factor represented in this argument?
Are you drunk?
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curt
Oct 24, 2005, 2:30 AM
Post #57 of 62
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In reply to: Curt. top ropeing may be free climbing but it is not leading and does not count in the FA dept...
Unless you are trying to be particularly obtuse, this thread is not about who got the FFA of the Nose. Everyone knows that was Lynn Hill. The question asked was about who has climbed the Nose free. Scott has done that, whether it gets your panties in a bunch or not. However, since you still appear to not comprehend the true definition of free climbing, I am quite certain you will post something else to this thread that is incorrect.
Curt
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tradmanclimbs
Oct 24, 2005, 2:37 AM
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fractuer It may be free climbing but is it good enough to claim an FFA or a 2nd FA? I know it used to be by most peoples standards when i started climbing in 82. I am Shuer healyJ would dispute that statement :D acording to healyj NO ONE EVER GRABBED GEAR BEFORE 82 or 83 :roll: Supposedly these days you have to lead every pitch clean from the belay or the ground pulling the rope after each attempt. if you guys want to relax the rules back to where they were in the early eightys when i started climbing that is fine by me :D :D I am all for easy fun climbing 8^)
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tradmanclimbs
Oct 24, 2005, 2:42 AM
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I have only had 4 beers and 2-3? bourbons so i am not drunk i am just drinking 8^)
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stickclipper
Oct 25, 2005, 1:22 AM
Post #60 of 62
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In reply to: In reply to: Curt. top ropeing may be free climbing but it is not leading and does not count in the FA dept... Unless you are trying to be particularly obtuse, this thread is not about who got the FFA of the Nose. Everyone knows that was Lynn Hill. The question asked was about who has climbed the Nose free. Scott has done that, whether it gets your panties in a bunch or not. However, since you still appear to not comprehend the true definition of free climbing, I am quite certain you will post something else to this thread that is incorrect. Curt
Right on.
Frankly, Tradman, I find it amazing that you've not learned to distinguish between free climbing and lead climbing in your twenty years on the rock. And your attempt to impress through your drinking prowess... well... Actually, it's pretty impressive. Ahem.
And by the way, just because my name is Stickclipper doesn't mean I'm a sport climber. Ever consider that a name may be in jest?
I won't trouble myself with the difficulty of explaining the concept of irony to you.
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squish
Oct 25, 2005, 3:25 AM
Post #61 of 62
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In reply to: And by the way, just because my name is Stickclipper doesn't mean I'm a sport climber. Ever consider that a name may be in jest? I won't trouble myself with the difficulty of explaining the concept of irony to you.
You won't need to. See, here's the original irony: someone called "stickclipper" debating the nuances of what's more free on a big wall! ...It's cool, man. All in jest! No need to take this poke at your username as a personal affront!
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karlbaba
Oct 25, 2005, 5:57 AM
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Of course Climbing is a contrived game. The more you care about the style, the more you'll already know what Lynne or Scott or Beth/Tommy did or didn't do.
I give Lynne huge props for having the vision to pull off what so many strong guys couldn't pull off.
I give Scotty HUGE props because he isn't remotely in the league of talent that these other climbers have. He had to work hard to even free the easy 5.11 pitches. That's how he got in shape for the 5.12 pitches. The 5.12 pitches got him in shape for the 5.13 pitches. He lived up there. That's pretty determined.
I saw Beth in the El Cap Meadow a few years ago. I told her she should go for the Nose Free cause of her great ability and small fingers. She said it was hard! but I suspect she had it in mind. I guess Tommy blew that whole "finger's dependent" myth out of the water, props for seeing beyond that too.
Sure, if somebody does it with no falls, no hanging belays and whatever, that's great, but fundamentalist rules don't rule the spirit of climbing for me.
It is what it is cause that's what it is
Peace
Karl
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