The theory behind the intervention in Iraq was written a long time ago. I would think that you leftists that decried the paleocon and leftist dependence on Realpolitic would welcome a policy that was based on the idealistic notion that all peoples "including the brown ones" could participate in democracy and that women were really human beings and not chatell. That our security can only be secured when facistic, misogynous belief systems steeped in the hatred give way to the rule of law and democratic institutions.

But then maybe your partisainship, self hatred and antisemitisim prefers the wahabist approach to history.


Read some T. Barnett. Probably the real theoritician behind our involvement in Iraq, and as history will tell if the cowardice of the left doesn't prevent its conclusion the correct approach.



http://hnn.us/...ntfriendly/9212.html

That our security can only be secured when facistic, misogynous belief systems steeped in the hatred give way to the rule of law and democratic institutions.

The theory behind the intervention in Iraq was written a long time ago. I would think that you leftists that decried the paleocon and leftist dependence on Realpolitic would welcome a policy that was based on the idealistic notion that all peoples "including the brown ones" could participate in democracy and that women were really human beings and not chatell. That our security can only be secured when facistic, misogynous belief systems steeped in the hatred give way to the rule of law and democratic institutions.

There was no plan.

Bush thought he would waltz through the place (Iraq) like a ballerina.

As for this thread, I agree. Pull the troops out of Iraq, put Saddam and the Ba'ath back in power, resume the Syrian occupation of Lebanon, allow the Muslims and continue beating down Christians, get the Iraqi secret police back into action, and hold fundraising for Muslim terrori...er...militants who blow themselves up on buses and cafes (and hijack airplanes and crash them into buildings), and overall put Iraq back into desert wasteland poverty with palaces for the arms dealers and petrobillionares.

Insurgent: a person who rises in revolt against civil authority or an established government

Might I also suggest that you get them to look up "invasion" while they're there?

...The theory behind the intervention in Iraq was written a long time ago. I would think that you leftists that decried the paleocon and leftist dependence on Realpolitic would welcome a policy that was based on the idealistic notion that all peoples "including the brown ones" could participate in democracy and that women were really human beings and not chatell. That our security can only be secured when facistic, misogynous belief systems steeped in the hatred give way to the rule of law and democratic institutions...

Just a couple of observations:

1) If the above was actually the baseline--and we were told that the primary purpose for invading Iraq was to establish a democracy there, then the decision to either do that--or not do that would have been made on an entirely different basis.

2) I have not yet had anyone explain to me in a satisfactory way how a true democracy can be established in any country where the citizens hold their religious laws to be more binding on them than the secular laws of the land. The entire concept of establishing a true democracy in Iraq seems flawed to me.

Curt

I have not yet had anyone explain to me in a satisfactory way how a true democracy can be established in any country where the citizens hold their religious laws to be more binding on them than the secular laws of the land. The entire concept of establishing a true democracy in Iraq seems flawed to me.

When 70% of the population find those religious laws more binding. The answer is that you can't, although it's a very reasonable bet that this administration already knew that.

My exact words were, "there are different ways to serve one's country".

Yes, and having said it when Americans are giving their lives at war is offensive enough. Coming from a creep like you that has never given so much a 5 minutes for his country is flat out vulgar.

You may for the rest of your born days try to spin your way out of that one, hugepedro, but as long as I am here I will continue to remind you of what a jackass you are for having said it even as kids were/are dieing.

Yes, and having said it when Americans are giving their lives at war is offensive enough. Coming from a creep like you that has never given so much a 5 minutes for his country is flat out vulgar.

You may for the rest of your born days try to spin your way out of that one, hugepedro, but as long as I am here I will continue to remind you of what a jackass you are for having said it even as kids were/are dieing.

As to the rest of your tawdry, childish, schoolboy blatherings, either prove them or shut the hell up.


jpearl, excellent post.

jpearl, excellent post.

As for the soldiers, they are the pawns, because they believe in their corrupt commander in chief, but, unlike Vietnam, these soldiers weren't drafted. They volunteered.

You would like it... relatively devoid of any facts or reason and containing an abundance of straw men and exaggeration

Gee, iltripp, I'm away from this board for like six months and you don't even take the time to ask me where I've been or how I'm doing? I

consider you an entertaining, though not worthy advisery

but how about a little concern for my long absence. For the record, I'm fine, thank you, I've been away trading my climbing addiction for a cycling addiction, courtesy of a phat cyclocross bike, but now I'm slowly getting back into climbing.

And as for my response, as always I am right and you are wrong because I've lived in that general region of the world, and I've experienced a side of the Muslim Arab world that the world media either is afraid to report on or callously disregards, and that of course, is where you get your information to formulate your long, empty-winded diatribes.

The "insurgants" that you heartfully read about are the same people that would gladlly strap a bomb to thier bodies and blow it up on a bus full of civilians. I call those people terrorists.

BTW, great to hear from you again Danooguy. I've moved to Washington DC, I think you would like the politics here. Lemme know if you're ever in town and we'll climb (iltripp, if you're ever in town, lemme know and we'll also climb)

With all due respect, rufus, I think it is presumtuous of *you* to make such a broad and shortsighted statement. Do you know every single person serving in the military today? Have you discussed with them their political and moral beliefs?

Better yet, if you found out that the president of your company was having an affair on his wife, would you give up your lucrative salary and resign in protest? I doubt it.

Please think before you type.

Stop being such a fucking bully, Mr. Tough Guy PFFFFFFFTTTTTTTT!!!

I posted a thread to find out about the DC-area climbing scene, since I know nothing about it. Seems to be a lot of gyms, but also some numerous smaller crags and bouldering areas. I figure that once I get settled in I can do some climbing exploring. I'll let you know if I find some cool stuff that worth a trip to the capitol region. As for VA, I don't know of anything there yet, but I'm sure there's tons of info on RC.com