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collegekid


Jan 4, 2006, 5:19 AM
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Re: The Government Is Trying To F*** Us Over Again....
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This is my response to the aforementioned thread.

"Government of the people, BY THE PEOPLE, for the people" means that YOU have to govern our nation. I'm going to use JFK's famous quote: "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country".

The government is trying to f*** us over because you are allowing them to. What have you done up until now to make changes in the way our nation works? Does it take some direct negative impact on your daily lives to realize that you need to protect your rights instead of falling for the slick campaign of a multi-billionaire Oil company owner?

Take a look in the mirror. What have you done to stop our government from becoming controlled by corporations? When was the last time your purchases were influenced by the need to conserve natural resources, including purchasing a highly fuel efficient vehicle (or riding a bicycle instead)?

For the economy to run as smoothly as possible, resources need to be cheap and readily available. You didn't know this already? You didn't know that resources come from the ground you walk/climb on, the air you breath? The attitude of "not in my backyard" only works for so long...once the other backyards are emptied of resources, your backyard is next. The only long-term solution to the problem of limited natural resources is to use renewable resources, and CONSERVE HEAVILY. Sorry, but you can't have your gas-guzzling SUV without oil, and you can't have oil without drilling.

If you care about our country, and want to make changes, do as I have and get politically motivated. Join www.moveon.org and start making donations or volunteering if you have no money. Vote progressive in the very important upcoming senate race.

To quote GW: "We need an economic policy that promotes consumption." This implies he wants to increase the rate we use up precious natural resources, counter to our need to preserve for the future.


Partner csgambill


Jan 4, 2006, 5:55 AM
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Silly liberals, facts are for conservatives. :lol:


ein_berliner


Jan 4, 2006, 8:15 AM
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Let's not let them get away with it a third time, for god's sake.

Um...GW can only be elected twice, so I think that wish will be granted.

And besides, it's a bipartisan government for all intents and purposes. If it's not Dem or Rep, you're throughing votes away. :lol:


collegekid


Jan 4, 2006, 8:38 AM
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Edited out :)


sbaclimber


Jan 4, 2006, 8:48 AM
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Go fight in Iraq if you think Heir Bush is such a great guy.
Did you mean 'Herr Bush'? If you are implying that he is a Nazi, okay...(he may be an idiot, but I don't think he is a Nazi).....but do keep in mind that millions of Germans who are neither Nazis nor even like George W. still go by the 'Herr' title, and you should learn to at least spell your insults correctly.
Edit: actually, a more appropriate title to imply that Bush is a Nazi would be '...der Führer, Bush'.
Anyway, that aside, anything that anyone is doing to change the current government is probably a good thing. I still voted in the last presidential election (not for Bush of course), even though I haven't even lived in the states since 2000.


ein_berliner


Jan 4, 2006, 8:52 AM
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And remember that there are many military members that aren't super conservative that also go fight in Iraq. You're random insults aren't a convincing part of anything you are saying.


collegekid


Jan 4, 2006, 9:09 AM
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Edited out :)


collegekid


Jan 4, 2006, 9:20 AM
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Wow, that got me thinking...

Conservatives that support the war in Iraq should get together and create a huge fund to pay the medical bills and lost wages of soldiers killed/maimed in battle. That includes full child support for children that are father/motherless. Let's see...2000 dead soldiers, assuming 1/3 are parents, with child support going at about 5k a year for 18 years...54 million dollars, just for child support. Let's see...30,000 wounded, with hospital visits going around 200 dollars each just for checkups, and guessing 2 visits a year for 4 years each, =48 million dollars. Lifetime of lost wages for those severely injured: guessing 2000 severely injured time s life net worth of about a million dollars = 2 billion dollars.

So, Conservatives, I'll believe that you support our troops when you raise over 3 billion dollars for a "support our troops" fund.

IF YOU ARE A TRUE AMERICAN, AND TRULY, HONESTLY SUPPORT THE WAR IN IRAQ, YOU WOULD BE MORE THAN WILLING TO DO THE ABOVE TO FURTHER "SUPPORT OUR TROOPS."


ein_berliner


Jan 4, 2006, 9:43 AM
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Some of your statments are legitimate, some are just libel it seems. There are some limited funds for helping injured service members. The VA is an organization that helps out service members. Service members also don't pay for medical services performed on them, so anything that they receive as far as operations and medical attention while in the military is free.

There are problems for costs they will incur once they are separated from the armed forces and that has to be dealt with.

You seem to imply that the rich stay here in SUV's and that the underpriviledged go to war. One, they volunteered and are getting paid for their job. This is not a draft army and hasn't been since Vietnam. Two, I wonder if you know of anyone that has been forced to stay beyond their commitment. This can only happen in certain instances and only for limited periods of time.

I agree that more should be done for the troops including increased health benefits and compensation for injuries (though they do get that), a clear plan of withdrawl from the war, and increased body armor and vehicle armaments instead of overfunding the navy and air force.

You're statements assume that the majority of the armed forces and their families aren't conservative, which I think you woul find to be false.


collegekid


Jan 4, 2006, 8:38 PM
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I've strayed too far from the topic at hand...my goal was simply to motivate people to get politically active, hopefully on the progressive side of things.

Regarding the poor being targeted heavily by recruiters, they are. Also, military service is more attractive to people who can't afford college or don't have the grades to get scholarships. I know if I had the choice between working at McDonald's for the rest of my life or going to the military for a few years and getting paid, I'd probably do the military.


Partner cliffhanger9
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Jan 4, 2006, 8:55 PM
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In reply to:
I've strayed too far from the topic at hand...my goal was simply to motivate people to get politically active, hopefully on the progressive side of things.

Sorry but this is hardly the appropriate forum for that kind of 'motivation'...


Partner cliffhanger9
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Jan 4, 2006, 8:56 PM
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cliffhanger9 moved this thread from Access Issues & Closures to Community.


feanor007


Jan 4, 2006, 8:56 PM
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In reply to:
progressive
i'm gonna say that might be the most overused and meaningless political term ever. every side claims to be progressing towards somthing, the somthing is where the disagreement is.

also, why is this in access, shouldn't it be in community, as it no specific closures have been mentioned?


madriver


Jan 4, 2006, 9:13 PM
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I'm just sick of all the "support our troops" people driving SUV's from their high-paying job to their large home in the suburbs,


...what if we have (2) SUV's and (2) large homes....does it make it even worse? But I'm sure glad we are still consrcipting our armed forces....I mean hell... if it weren't for that we would probobaly have to cancel the draft....wait.....there is no draft....it's all voluntary....never mind....


thorne
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Jan 4, 2006, 9:18 PM
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My guess is this guy took his second dose about 11pm.

You go dog. Git on wit you bad self.


collegekid


Jan 4, 2006, 9:28 PM
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Madriver, were you planning on opening up one of your homes to a family that lost theirs in Hurricane Katrina?

If not, that's ok. Afterall, you gotta have your space, right? And you gotta have a car big enough for all of your Wal-Mart shopping needs, too. I mean, what if you wanted to buy a big screen tv, how could you possibly transport that to your house if you didn't have an SUV? And also, what if you wanted to have Two big screens, well I mean of course you'd need a second house to put the second one in. And that's not even including your kids into the equation! What if they wanted a large play set, I mean then obviously you need a very large vehicle to transport it in.


collegekid


Jan 4, 2006, 9:30 PM
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I need to get back to summarizing my research from the last 5 months, before winter quarter starts on monday. PM me if this thread gets interesting.


robbovius


Jan 4, 2006, 10:23 PM
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Thorne, can'tcha just wait until THIS one turns 50...has two kids in college, is carefully doling out the monthly household expenses, workin' his 9-to-5, bitchin' about how hiw wife doens't put out anymore...

...AND RAGGIN ON COLLEGE KIDS GETTING ALL HET UP ABOUT POLITICALLY LIBERAL ISSUES??

heh.

collegekid, you have no idea what you're in for. ;-) we were ALL politically liberal activists once. you're pretty fricken naive if you think that you can alter the course of the federal government juggernaut in any time span that doesn't measure in decades.

check the thread yourself, knucklehead. ;-)


reno


Jan 4, 2006, 11:07 PM
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Madriver, were you planning on opening up one of your homes to a family that lost theirs in Hurricane Katrina?

Safe to assume, then, that you've opened your home to a family and are currently living in the tent pitched in the backyard?

And an economy based on consumption is EXACTLY what we need. When people don't consume, they tend to call that a recession. If it goes on long enough, it's a depression. And those are typically bad (see: Great Depression, et al.)


madriver


Jan 4, 2006, 11:09 PM
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Madriver, were you planning on opening up one of your homes to a family that lost theirs in Hurricane Katrina?

If not, that's ok.


...so...it's O.K if I get my dog a Yacht too?....kool....!!

...now....since you obviously have a lot of time on your hands....put it to good use. While you're in school why not perfect Cold Fusion....or...tort reform....or.....Solve World Hunger....or.....predicting Eathquakes....see....there's lots to do.....back to work my young friend. In the meantime....I've got to get all my crap from my southern house to my northern digs and I need another SUV to do it.....dig?


love

MR


dingus


Jan 4, 2006, 11:17 PM
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Conservatives that support the war in Iraq should get together and create a huge fund to pay the medical bills and lost wages of soldiers killed/maimed in battle.

Those would be called 'taxes.' What college do you go to again?

DMT


dingus


Jan 4, 2006, 11:33 PM
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One person making a low consumption lifestyle change will not have any effect whatsoever, except on that person. The only reason to change to a low consumption lifestyle is if it benefits or otherwise suits the individual.

Personally I see no reason to change, it won't make any real difference at all. It would mainly effect my kids, make them stand out like Quakers at a mall in Atlanta. Kids don't need that kind of shit.

I'm all for the progressive vote. Too bad there aren't any. If its any consolation, I voted for the Green party for one seat last election (Gov.)! Does that get me into heaven?

DMT


wjca


Jan 4, 2006, 11:36 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
Conservatives that support the war in Iraq should get together and create a huge fund to pay the medical bills and lost wages of soldiers killed/maimed in battle.

Those would be called 'taxes.' What college do you go to again?

DMT


Wait a minute. Do you mean to tell me that the Department of Defense has a huge pile of money, originated from something called "taxes", that it uses to take care of the medical expenses of the soldiers that are injured fighting this bullshit war?

Okay, well, maybe the Conservatives that support the war should instead get together and create a huge fund to pay to all those soldiers (fighting in the bullshit war) some sort of stipend to live on later in life when they get older and retire. Maybe the same fund could pay some of the medical expenses of those elderly, ex-soldiers later in their lives as well.

What if they used some of that huge fund to do something that benefits all of us, like build some roads or something.


dingus


Jan 4, 2006, 11:44 PM
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What if they used some of that huge fund to do something that benefits all of us, like build some roads or something.

That would be something for sure!

DMT


madriver


Jan 4, 2006, 11:46 PM
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...heh...


...you bitter, sarcastic, old men.....it's people like you that make America the rotten, war mongering, hate fostering, place that it is. If you guys would get off your arses and till the earth, or plant a tree, or build a hut next to your mansions (for the Katrina victims), then maybe....just maybe....we can survive.....anyway......I'm gettin ready to watch USC vs. Texas on my 98" Plasma Mega Screen......I can hear the trees being cut down as I grab another cold brew from 5th beverage refrig....ahhhhhhhhh....



USC ....and I'll give you 6....


collegekid


Jan 5, 2006, 9:43 AM
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Heh Heh Heh...

Since you mentioned it, I am actually working on Inertial Confinement Fusion. My summer project was to develop a system that tracks deuterium/tritium spheres as they are shot at 100 m/s into a vaccuum chamber, where they are then shot by a massive array of lasers.

And my interest was recently piqued in the area formerly known as "cold fusion" (now known as "low-energy nuclear reactions"). Since the department of energy was too dense to see the potential implications of this phenomenon, most fusion scientists don't want to lose their funding, and most physicists don't like the idea that something can break their decade's old laws, the few visionaries that DO research the "cold fusion" phenomena do so quietly, away from the media. The only thing fake about cold fusion was the media that blitzed it. The only error the orginal scientists (Pons and Flieschman sp?) made was reporting the effect to the media before they were ready to defend themselves from the onslaught.

And to educate anyone who thinks "fusion is a pipe dream" or "cold fusion is junk science", the simple fact is, both of these areas are severly underfunded relative to older technologies. The net Department of ENERGY (emphasis is on energy, since most DOE funding goes to military purposes) Fusion research money is about 250 million a year...less than the cost of a single jet fighter. Kinda sad, that a technology that has the potential to solve all of our energy problems gets less funding than machines that destroy. But as people have said, that's just politics for ya.

But you see, I don't mind being underpaid and overworked, because I care more about what project I am working on than the amount of money I am making. Also, my tuition and (single bedroom, in a 5 bedroom house, shared between 6 people) rent is being paid by the DOE right now, so it's not all bad.

Although, if I had taken up my offer with Lockheed Martin, with whom I interned last year, I could probably be making 60 K right now and living the American Dream in San Jose, Ca, while the missiles I work on kill innocents in distant, unknown lands. But I made the choice to persue my dreams instead of working for one of the companies that is putting the most effort into (successfully) lobbying Washington, so that it's essentially useless products will have a place in our wealthy nation.


Partner tradman


Jan 5, 2006, 9:57 AM
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Since you mentioned it, I am actually working on Inertial Confinement Fusion.

Interesting!

What method are you working with? Are you using a hohlraum (you mentioned lasers)? Any results yet?

I've been interested in "cold fusion" for a while, and as you say, it's a crying shame that it's not better funded. There are (to my mind anyway) several promising avenues which could provide a workable solution, but no-one seems interested in their commercial potential. Have you come across pinch fusion systems? What are your thoughts on muon-catalyzed fusion?


robbovius


Jan 5, 2006, 1:44 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
Since you mentioned it, I am actually working on Inertial Confinement Fusion.

Interesting!

What method are you working with? Are you using a hohlraum (you mentioned lasers)? Any results yet?

I've been interested in "cold fusion" for a while, and as you say, it's a crying shame that it's not better funded. There are (to my mind anyway) several promising avenues which could provide a workable solution, but no-one seems interested in their commercial potential. Have you come across pinch fusion systems? What are your thoughts on muon-catalyzed fusion?

Fucking Troll... ;-)


robbovius


Jan 5, 2006, 1:53 PM
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Heh Heh Heh...
we're laughing too: at you, not with you ;-)

In reply to:
But you see, I don't mind being underpaid and overworked, because I care more about what project I am working on than the amount of money I am making. Also, my tuition and (single bedroom, in a 5 bedroom house, shared between 6 people) rent is being paid by the DOE right now, so it's not all bad.

freeloading hippie bastige. you just wait until that freebie dries up, THEN you'll care about how much money you make ;-)

In reply to:
Although, if I had taken up my offer with Lockheed Martin, with whom I interned last year, I could probably be making 60 K right now and living the American Dream in San Jose, Ca, while the missiles I work on kill innocents in distant, unknown lands.
c'mon, dude, all the lands where the various "innocents" are being killed are quite well known.


In reply to:
But I made the choice to persue my dreams

I pursues my dreams too, and when I catch them I hack them apart with an axe...and then hide the pieces in the crawl space...*sniff sniff*... hmm, needs more lime.


thorne
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Jan 5, 2006, 1:57 PM
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In reply to:
Since you mentioned it, I am actually working on Inertial Confinement Fusion. My summer project was to develop a system that tracks deuterium/tritium spheres as they are shot at 100 m/s into a vaccuum chamber, where they are then shot by a massive array of lasers.

And my interest was recently piqued in the area formerly known as "cold fusion" (now known as "low-energy nuclear reactions").

I used to think Val Kilmer was "all that", too. :wink:


madriver


Jan 5, 2006, 2:51 PM
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...South Park...

....Hippie Jam Fest episode..

....the writers..they probably lurk here for material....


dingus


Jan 5, 2006, 3:33 PM
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I could probably be making 60 K right now and living the American Dream in San Jose, Ca,

60 k in San Jose is more like an American nightmare.

DMT


collegekid


Jan 5, 2006, 6:48 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
Since you mentioned it, I am actually working on Inertial Confinement Fusion.

Interesting!

What method are you working with? Are you using a hohlraum (you mentioned lasers)? Any results yet?

I've been interested in "cold fusion" for a while, and as you say, it's a crying shame that it's not better funded. There are (to my mind anyway) several promising avenues which could provide a workable solution, but no-one seems interested in their commercial potential. Have you come across pinch fusion systems? What are your thoughts on muon-catalyzed fusion?

Answers to your questions:
1. Direct Drive, No hohlraum (at least, at the moment...it is still in the design stages. I'm working on a low-cost design study--my goal is to see if it's even possible to track something that's going 100 m/s to an accuracy of 10 microns--so far I believe it will work, using interferometric methods and "fringe counting", but time and funding will tell.) NIF (national ignition facility) is just getting started, so there's no way we could have any results yet--in order to have fusion, you gotta have the Petawatt lasers first!

2. My knowledge of cold fusion is pretty limited--obviously it's not taught in any of my classes, and no one at my university has worked on it directly. A chemist that works in my building at General Atomics spent several weeks trying to replicate the original experiment, with no luck, however he believes it is a real phenomenon. His knowledge is limited to that experiment. I know there are books on cold fusion out there, so maybe in the future I'll read up.

3. I know what a z and x pinch are, in fact worked in a lab that is studying x-pinches (and got to spend hours trying to insert stupid 5 micron wires into it, while they kept breaking and twisting around...) However, I have no experience or knowledge of pinch-fusion. My PhD will be in Plasma Physics...at the moment I'm trying to find a way to link that to cold fusion, so that I could run cold fusion experiments instead. I was thinking Plasma loading of metals...labeled as "plasma surface interactions"

4. I hardly know what a muon is, let alone muon-assisted fusion. I am starting my 2nd quarter as an Engineering Physics student, with my undergrad in Aerospace engineering. I'll be taking some general physics classes to round out my education, however I don't know squat about particle physics. In fact, I haven't even taken a class on Fusion yet, all of my knowledge is from my job or what I've taken the time to look up.


madriver


Jan 5, 2006, 6:57 PM
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....so...is the reason the USofA and or the rest of the world is so frukked up becuase of Bush and the Republicans?....or just a lack of smart people like you?....see ...I'm trying to figure out how you are paying for all that education? .....I'm sure if we were all as smart as you we would see the light and everything would be allright.....I think.....damn......


collegekid


Jan 5, 2006, 6:59 PM
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Tradman,

What are you studying/working on? How deep is your knowledge of cold fusion? I'm interested to know more.

Dingus,

Well, 60K may be a "nightmare" in San Jose, but 1500 per month in San Diego ain't exactly a dream come true.

In the future, I hope to become more financially secure by persuing my non-military related interests, just as many of my well-payed professors and PhD coworkers have done. I think it's sad, the number of graduating seniors from my class that truly felt they were worthless, and sought any job that would pay the bills, even if it was making missiles. There's always another way, though you might have to make some worthwhile sacrfices that pay off down the road. The Defense industry will likely drop out again once a democrat is in office, and military is no longer our priority. The aerospace industry is fickle like that, funding is based on who's in office. On the other hand, Fusion energy funding will only go up, once people realize that OIL IS RUNNING OUT, and hopefully by the time I'm in my 40's, I'll have a nice career in the fusion industry.


madriver


Jan 5, 2006, 7:13 PM
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In the future, I hope to become more financially secure by persuing my non-military related interests, just as many of my well-payed professors and PhD coworkers have done. I think it's sad, the number of graduating seniors from my class that truly felt they were worthless, and sought any job that would pay the bills, even if it was making missiles. There's always another way, though you might have to make some worthwhile sacrfices that pay off down the road. The Defense industry will likely drop out again once a democrat is in office, and military is no longer our priority. The aerospace industry is fickle like that, funding is based on who's in office. On the other hand, Fusion energy funding will only go up, once people realize that OIL IS RUNNING OUT, and hopefully by the time I'm in my 40's, I'll have a nice career in the fusion industry.


....see....making the world a better place is easy....you've got it all figured out. Why all the ranting? It's all the Republicans fault....and we should all work for companies that do NO HARM....ahhhhhhhhh....and I was worried about my kids future.


BTW.....Who is George Sorros and how did he make all that money to run Moveon.org?


thorne
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Jan 5, 2006, 7:20 PM
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In the future, I hope to become more financially secure by persuing my non-military related interests, just as many of my well-payed professors and PhD coworkers have done.
Are you talking about teaching to others the very thing you've found to be of limited use... outside of military applications?

In reply to:
I think it's sad, the number of graduating seniors from my class that truly felt they were worthless, and sought any job that would pay the bills, even if it was making missiles. There's always another way, though you might have to make some worthwhile sacrfices that pay off down the road.
You mean like staying in school? Who's funding your postponement of entering the workplace?


dingus


Jan 5, 2006, 7:30 PM
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and hopefully by the time I'm in my 40's, I'll have a nice career in the fusion industry.

Cheers!
DMT


collegekid


Jan 5, 2006, 8:22 PM
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Madriver:

Moveon.org is funded by private donors; I've contributed perhaps 40 bucks over the course of the year.

From moveon.org's donation website (https://political.moveon.org/donate/donate.html):
" This contribution does not exceed my personal contribution limit. (Contributions made to MoveOn.org Political Action are limited to $5,000 per individual per calendar year.)"

I suppose that would exclude individual donors, such as the oil industry, from donating several million at a time. It does not, however, limit the number of people that may donate--since there are 3.3 million members, that's not much of a limitation.

Madriver, I can sympathize with the fact that you've lost faith in the system and in the government. It's very easy to become depressed about it if you previously had any sort of faith in the system. That is not an excuse to give up though; one must push onwards, no matter what the odds.

And today is a better time than any to gather the people and create a movement; The internet was never before available as a means for individuals to communicate and join forces, politically, to achieve their goals. If everyone in the U.S. realized this, and decided to get active, we could potentially reorganize the system, such that it performs the way the forefathers had planned. No longer would we have to "settle for the lesser of two evils" in elections. Of course, if Bush gets the power to limit our access to freedom of speech on the internet, which I'm sure he would, then we're completely f***d. I'm sure this post is listed somewhere in the CIA's "free-thinkers to look out for" list.


collegekid


Jan 5, 2006, 8:32 PM
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Thorne:

My education is being funded by the same people that are funding Lockheed Martin; The American Public.

Now, I suppose I could have worked for Boeing or Lockheed's non-military sides, either making commercial jets or television satellites (in fact, I worked in the "Commercial Space" segment of Lockheed, where they put together and test $350million communications satellites), However I find those areas uninteresting. I didn't choose graduate school just to avoid entering the work force; I want to do something creative, new, and interesting, so I'm doing graduate school. Hopefully I won't get sucked into a 9-5 job at a given company, doing research that i'm uninterested in. I tend to fall asleep easily during the afternoon, so there's no way I could survive with that life :D

Just another thought--the satellites that beam television to your home cost more than the yearly budget of the United States Fusion program. And Lockheed puts up one or two of those satellites per year. Kinda puts our national priorities in perspective.

The sad, frightening, and extremely alarming fact is, that oil is running out very very quickly. We have perhaps a decade or two (maximum) left before the prices become in the 5-10 dollar range and our economy flops. This all depends on what we do before this happens; if we can learn to reduce our dependence, it won't be a big deal, but with Bush in office, we're f****d. We need to put large amounts of money towards energy research, fast. Very fast. The timescale that research works on is the order of decades, not years...the task at hand is monumental--the same order of magnitude as the mission to the moon. If the fusion research project was treated the same way as the moon mission, where the entire nation gets behind it, then in a few decades fusion could potentially power everything we do and the rich american lifestyle could continue as if nothing had happened.


danooguy


Jan 6, 2006, 12:03 AM
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....the writers..they probably lurk here for material....

danooguy buys a beer for madriver...


collegekid


Jan 6, 2006, 12:50 AM
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I swear, I feel like Lisa Simpson trying to convince her dad to become a vegetarian...


caughtinside


Jan 6, 2006, 1:54 AM
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You don't win friends with salad.


blondgecko
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Jan 6, 2006, 2:44 AM
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I think it's sad, the number of graduating seniors from my class that truly felt they were worthless, and sought any job that would pay the bills, even if it was making missiles. There's always another way, though you might have to make some worthwhile sacrfices that pay off down the road.
You mean like staying in school? Who's funding your postponement of entering the workplace?

Do you really think that doing a PhD is the lazy option?

Believe me, I've seen the other option. I could have left my undergraduate degree straight into a position that paid at least twice what my PhD scholarship paid, with days fixed at 7am-4pm and a really easy, non-taxing workload. The downside would be that I would be bored out of my mind, and feel like I wasn't really contributing anything meaningful to society.

Instead, I chose a position which paid not much more than a basic living wage, had unpredictable hours (round-the-clock monitoring of experiments, and often above 70 hours a week), and was incredibly mentally draining and stressful. In addition, taking this position actually reduced my likelihood of finding industrial employment at the end.

Why did I make this seemingly idiotic decision? Because it was the only way I could feel like I was contributing something meaningful to human progress, rather than just keeping the status quo.

PhD students may be referred to as students, but the research they do is of very real significance. Casting aspersions like that above is ignorant at best, and intellectually dishonest at worst.


reno


Jan 6, 2006, 3:35 AM
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You don't win friends with salad.

^^^ I don't care who you are, that's funny right there.


remi


Jan 6, 2006, 3:39 AM
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And today is a better time than any to gather the people and create a movement; The internet was never before available as a means for individuals to communicate and join forces, politically, to achieve their goals. If everyone in the U.S. realized this, and decided to get active, we could potentially reorganize the system, such that it performs the way the forefathers had planned. No longer would we have to "settle for the lesser of two evils" in elections. Of course, if Bush gets the power to limit our access to freedom of speech on the internet, which I'm sure he would, then we're completely f***d. I'm sure this post is listed somewhere in the CIA's "free-thinkers to look out for" list.

I don't see how people were being stopped from forming the 'movement' prior the internet. I think lots of people in the US are very politically active...they just happen to vote for Bush!

Now I remember why I got the hell out of uni after my undergrad & haven't looked back...


collegekid


Jan 6, 2006, 4:25 AM
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By uni, do you mean university?

There have been movements in the past. Not that I was alive then, but do you remember the 60's?

I guess in the cycle of American Politics, it's time for another revolution. People voted for Bush because things (the economy, mostly) were so good during Clinton, that they became lazy and forgot how bad things became with the last Republican in office. Also, the majority never voted for bush...both elections, there were numerous incidences of election fraud, and in most cases, the fraud was performed on electric voting machines that were easily and untraceably hacked.

If you think that Bush is a good president, please explain one thing that he has done that hasn't done any of the following: a) resulted in death of innocents, b) increased national debt, c) taken money from the poor and middle class and given to the wealthy d) given the United States a poor reputation among its international peers

During the 60's, people were rebelling against the conservative, war mongering older generation's way of life. Now, we need to "rebel" against the corporate and political corruption taking place, that has gradually increased until now, and that has come to a head with a fraudulent election.


danooguy


Jan 6, 2006, 4:35 AM
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During the 60's, people were rebelling against the conservative, war mongering older generation's way of life.

I thought we were just looking for a reason to buy more Boones Farm Apple wine.

Anyone else here attend the May Day rallies held in Washington DC every year in the late 60's?


reno


Jan 6, 2006, 4:42 AM
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Also, the majority never voted for bush...

Or fomer President Clinton.

(And, btw, it's President Bush.)


ein_berliner


Jan 6, 2006, 8:19 AM
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Maybe you should do some more work on your history. I doubt you will find that the 60's was focused against "war mongers".

I don't care about your ideas on giving people room to live in my house either. Read Ayn Rand. This nation isn't based on "to each according to his ability, to each according to his need". I am not compelled to help anyone else out because the NEED it. That's not a viable excuse and you can't impose need on me and get away with it. Any charity I supply will be based on my own desires not because I OWE it to anyone, which I don't.

Your real concerns appear to be physics. That's nice, a purely academic pursuit, with scholarships galore. Hurray! Like what was posted earlier. When you have a family or when you finally leave the institutions you may have a change of heart regarding who you dole money out to.

I don't care if you think you could get 60k, which won't be an astronomical amount if you're living in SoCal, and I don't care what you are majoring in. You're using tax payers dollars same as the soldiers and others.

I don't necessarily support Bush (beyond what I'm compelled to in my job) but it has been done and we need to remove ourselves from Iraq in such a manner that we don't destroy what we've worked on or allow our Iraqi allies (whether by choice or not) to be unfunded and poorly equipped to begin a new government. You want to speak about Vietnam? Then at least don't preach anything about immediate withdrawal of our troops. We learned lessons from Vietnam that need to be taken in consideration so we don't screw another country like we did the South Vietnamese.


thorne
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Jan 6, 2006, 1:57 PM
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People voted for Bush because things (the economy, mostly) were so good during Clinton, that they became lazy and forgot how bad things became with the last Republican in office.
What you're saying is that "things have gone quite well with a Democrat in the White House, so let's throw the bums out. I thought you engineers were taught to view things in a logical manner. :roll:

In reply to:
Also, the majority never voted for bush.
Do you have any proof of this? From a credible source? The Daily Kos doesn't count. I thought you engineering types were taught to look at tangible provable facts and not get caught up in unsupported conjecture. :roll:

You're not really getting a PhD in Engineering, are you?


dingus


Jan 6, 2006, 3:16 PM
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Read Ayn Rand. This nation isn't based on "to each according to his ability, to each according to his need".

It certainly isn't based on the most boring book of all time either. That bitch had no vagina, just a smooth plastic lump where her genitals belonged.

Which, not ironically, is exactly how her political views translate to the REAL WORLD. A fax of life, cold and inhuman at the core. I'm pretty sure she was a reptile.

DMT


thorne
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Jan 6, 2006, 3:21 PM
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Read Ayn Rand. This nation isn't based on "to each according to his ability, to each according to his need".

It certainly isn't based on the most boring book of all time either. That b---- had no vagina, just a smooth plastic lump where her genitals belonged.

Which, not ironically, is exactly how her political views translate to the REAL WORLD. A fax of life, cold and inhuman at the core. I'm pretty sure she was a reptile.

DMT

You sound bitter.


dingus


Jan 6, 2006, 3:37 PM
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Read Ayn Rand. This nation isn't based on "to each according to his ability, to each according to his need".

It certainly isn't based on the most boring book of all time either. That b---- had no vagina, just a smooth plastic lump where her genitals belonged.

Which, not ironically, is exactly how her political views translate to the REAL WORLD. A fax of life, cold and inhuman at the core. I'm pretty sure she was a reptile.

DMT

You sound bitter.

After 700 pages of Atlas Shrugged you're damned RIGHT I was bitter! Weren't you???

DMT


thorne
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Read Ayn Rand. This nation isn't based on "to each according to his ability, to each according to his need".

It certainly isn't based on the most boring book of all time either. That b---- had no vagina, just a smooth plastic lump where her genitals belonged.

Which, not ironically, is exactly how her political views translate to the REAL WORLD. A fax of life, cold and inhuman at the core. I'm pretty sure she was a reptile.

DMT

You sound bitter.

After 700 pages of Atlas Shrugged you're damned RIGHT I was bitter! Weren't you???

DMT

Never bothered. :wink: But I have a fair understanding of Objectivism and think it's an excellent philosophy, although it's pretty lacking in the compassion department.

Right now I'm reading this http://www.amazon.com/...18?v=glance&n=283155. I hope I'm not bitter afterwards.


degaine


Jan 6, 2006, 3:52 PM
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Read Ayn Rand. This nation isn't based on "to each according to his ability, to each according to his need".

It certainly isn't based on the most boring book of all time either. That b---- had no vagina, just a smooth plastic lump where her genitals belonged.

Which, not ironically, is exactly how her political views translate to the REAL WORLD. A fax of life, cold and inhuman at the core. I'm pretty sure she was a reptile.

DMT

Bolded by me.

Ironic you should write that. After tens of recommendations from friends to read one of her books, I picked up "Atlas Shrugged," fell asleep after page 2, and have never picked it up since.

Based on your post, I guess I consider myself lucky!


ein_berliner


Jan 6, 2006, 4:00 PM
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In reply to:
Read Ayn Rand. This nation isn't based on "to each according to his ability, to each according to his need".

It certainly isn't based on the most boring book of all time either. That b---- had no vagina, just a smooth plastic lump where her genitals belonged.

Which, not ironically, is exactly how her political views translate to the REAL WORLD. A fax of life, cold and inhuman at the core. I'm pretty sure she was a reptile.

DMT

Bolded by me.

Ironic you should write that. After tens of recommendations from friends to read one of her books, I picked up "Atlas Shrugged," fell asleep after page 2, and have never picked it up since.

Based on your post, I guess I consider myself lucky!

You philistines. I didn't find the book boring at all. Neither did I find the Fountainhead boring. Read more classic literature! Then you can act pompous and knowledgeable like me!

I reject anything about boring and Ayn Rand...her being a reptile, however...that may have been possible. She was cold and calculating, but then why not. How many tycoons have had hearts of gold anyway?


Partner tradman


Jan 6, 2006, 4:35 PM
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Neither did I find the Fountainhead boring.

That's interesting.

I found it deeply flawed, but interesting enough to finish it.

My main criticism of it was simply that Howard Roarke's personality (passive, bland and idle) is totally incompatible with creativity of any kind. The central character just wouldn't be capable of the work described.

This is in my mind just a bit of wish fulfillment on Rand's part: she desperately wanted to be seen as creative, passionate and charismatic, when in fact as has been note here she was rightly regarded as a lizard.


dingus


Jan 6, 2006, 6:26 PM
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Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again. Atlas shrugged, nay, all of Rands work, nicely made her central point in the first 50 pages or so. And then made the same point again and again and again, often with diatribes longer than the book itself. Then the next 50 pages started over, restating the same point and then made it again and again and again.

Sorta like that. I eventually shrugged.

DMT


robbovius


Jan 6, 2006, 6:55 PM
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"dingus shrugged, nay, ALL... of... ... dingus *yawn*.... work...zzzzzZZZZZZzzzzzzZZZZZzzzZZZZZzzzzzz*snort*..."


;-)


collegekid


Jan 6, 2006, 8:53 PM
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Oooo some more stuff for the conservatives among you to counter with various forms of illogic:

-I've noticed that a lot of people claim that if you believe in fairness, justice, and essentially communism, then you're a naive hippy with his head in his ass.

Though I may be a naive hippy, you must admit that you've gotta be at least a little naive to think that a president who doesn't respect your constitutional rights has your, or anyone's (i.e. iraqi's) best interests in mind by going to war. (I'm reminded of his open press conference the other day, where when asked how many Iraqi civilians have died, his reply was a nanchalant estimate of "Um, perhaps 30,000" as if he were estimating how much money he spent on his last car. No show of remorse, regret, or even the slightest hint of emotion: just business as usual. Would this frighten you if he was talking about American deaths?)

-I've also noticed that most people with republican viewpoints may be intellectually capable or even genius, but lack creativity and imagination to a large degree. They also can't imagine the hardships of other people, or have any empathy towards those that suffer; "as long as my hands are clean, it doesn't effect me". But then, when it comes to saving Iraqi's from the hardships of living in a country run by a dictator, they are all over it.

And I will refer to Bush as "president Bush" or "mr President" when you show me the COMPLETE recounts from the last two elections, and a FULL, UNINHIBITED, BIPARTISAN investigation into the electronic voting machine scandal.

Did you know that NBC is investigating the fact that Bush has been spying on news reporters? Of course, they will not be breaking the news until they finish the investigation.

Ever seen the movie "Wag the Dog"? Just wait until we invade Iran...Will you believe me then? Of course not, you'll still be accepting every word of Bush's bullshit.


thorne
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Jan 6, 2006, 9:08 PM
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ck,
You crack me up. It's not your leftward bias that gets my attention, but rather your seemingly ability to ignore so many obvious, relevant facts when you make your case.


wjca


Jan 6, 2006, 9:54 PM
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Wow! Dingus has a lot of free time.

I was thinking about the title to this thread, about the government trying to fuck us over again. When did they fuck us over the first time?


madriver


Jan 6, 2006, 9:56 PM
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wjca wrote:

In reply to:
Wow! Dingus has a lot of free time.

I was thinking about the title to this thread, about the government trying to f--- us over again. When did they f--- us over the first time?

....every April 15th....duh!!


schmidty06


Jan 6, 2006, 11:10 PM
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I have a feeling that a reason behind the economy being so "good" while President Clinton was in office was because he cut the military in half and put the extra money into welfare so nobody had to work for their money. And whether you like it or not, this war that we're in proves that such a cut back was a major mistake because now we're over working our military personnel.


remi


Jan 6, 2006, 11:10 PM
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In reply to:
-I've also noticed that most people with republican viewpoints may be intellectually capable or even genius, but lack creativity and imagination to a large degree. They also can't imagine the hardships of other people, or have any empathy towards those that suffer; "as long as my hands are clean, it doesn't effect me". But then, when it comes to saving Iraqi's from the hardships of living in a country run by a dictator, they are all over it.

you wield a very wide brush! :) How many Che Guevara t-shirts do you own?


collegekid


Jan 7, 2006, 9:01 AM
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There's always a way to twist facts such that they meet your personal viewpoints. If it makes you feel better about supporting Bush to blame Clinton for all of his problems, then go right ahead.

While your at it, why not blame the constitution for getting in Bush's way of saving us all from the terrorists that lurk on every roadside and airport of our nation? I definitely think that in times of war, every single Constitutional right should be considered null and void, all in the name of protecting us from ourselves.

THE WAR WAS NOT NEEDED IN THE FIRST PLACE, IT WAS ALL LIES. LET GO, MOVE ON, AND PERHAPS YOU MAY REDEEM YOURSELF BY HELPING GET RID OF THE ASSHOLE.

Honestly, I'm perfectly willing to forgive anyone that previously supported Bush, so long as they admit that THEY HAVE BEEN DEVEIVED and that it was not their fault. Oh yeah, they also have to pledge to NEVER VOTE IN ANY ELECTION, EVER AGAIN. (just kidding about the last one, but it's not a bad idea!)


ein_berliner


Jan 7, 2006, 10:27 AM
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For one, death counts for the "enemy" or even our allies has never registered much concern with the American public. Can you tell me the last time anyone was mad about Vietnam because of the ENORMOUS body count that piled up for the North Vietnamese. Nope, you can't. How about Korean war? no...??? Well, then WWII then. Surely we cared how many Japs and Krauts died... no?! Well, then Desert Storm must have been when the American people of all creeds and levels of liberalism were concerned. Not there either?!! That's CRAZY. How about Afghanistan? nope! Ah well, maybe Bush doesn't know exact numbers because the American concensus is that the population (i.e. YOU) don't really care.

It's never been a point of contention that we are killing too many Iraqis. There are tributes to our soldiers on CNN and we have a melodramatic mother wandering around the country wailing about her son and OUR troops, but no really too concerned about the Iraqis.

Most of the things you have said have been ideas that are not supported in any way. To say that Conservatives don't have imagination? What kind of an assertion is that?! And no war was necessary? Interesting, I bet you supported the invasion of Afghanistan! Even if you didn't, I doubt you were in the streets opposing it.

Now the allegations of misuse of the Executive power to spy or tap into American's lives...that may be a problem. I don't support large bends in our constitutional rights to ensure our safety. It just isn't worth it. But you will notice that that kind of thing took place with Nixon and others. Not saying it's right, just saying that we've been there.

As far as agreeing with Bush? No, I'm not thrilled with the war in Iraq, not thrilled to be headed over there. But you know, I will. Because it's what I said I'd do. AND, regardless of the beginnning there still has to be an ending put in place so we don't dick over our allies like we did to the South Vietnamese.


ein_berliner


Jan 7, 2006, 10:33 AM
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On Ayn Rand. The poster that gave the full length reply...I think he said he didn't finish the book...which makes his views rather suspect. Yes she reiterates her ideas multiple times, but the only unbearable chapter is toward the end of the book, and I doubt you got that far.

As far as Roarke being unable to handle the creativity he wielded in the book, I doubt that's true. I am, and have met many other very logical, math based people that have great aesthetic talents in art and designing. To say that his character prohibits him from accomplishments is rather ridiculous. The reptilian qualities of Rand were directed at her philosophy presented mainly in Atlas Shrugged. She's a humanist in large part (part of the objectivism slant). I think much of her characters's personalities are a reflection only of her philosophy. They are symbolic representation of people. Someone like them may exist, but they are extremes. That's what makes characters interesting. I wouldn't read a book based off of the majority of the people that post on this forum.....just saying.


dingus


Jan 7, 2006, 2:36 PM
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I read like 700 pages unbelievably. Its just, I kept wading through these long winded diatribes, waiting for a shoe to drop, anything! She paints a vivid image of her cold, sterile downward spiraling world. But unfortunately, she uses all those words to guild the image; as a story teller? Yawn....

I picked it up, looked at it and realized I didn't care if that gray and dreary world ground to a halt or not. I lost all empathy toward the characters, much as Ayn Rand herself lost all empathy toward humans, lol.

Its been that way with a few other novels, I get most of the way through only to say, anyway.

I'm pretty much done with an author when that happens.

Cheers though
DMT


crankinv9


Jan 7, 2006, 5:52 PM
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In reply to:
ck,
You crack me up. It's not your leftward bias that gets my attention, but rather your seemingly ability to ignore so many obvious, relevant facts when you make your case.

Doesn't your statment apply to most posters here? Just interchange leftward/rightward and you have a whole host of characters that spend their cubicle time in this forum.


collegekid


Jan 7, 2006, 7:42 PM
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Thank you, Crankin.

If people on the extreme right can twist facts and use whatever non-evidence they want to support their views, then so can I.

The only difference is that there are people on television that do this (on the right), but I'm not aware of any extreme left television shows (although Jon Stewart is close, but I wouldn't say he's an extremist in any way).

I'm reminded of Bill Oreilly and his "war on Christmas".


robbovius


Jan 7, 2006, 10:41 PM
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In reply to:

Though I may be a naive hippy, you must admit that you've gotta be at least a little naive to think that a president who doesn't respect your constitutional rights has your, or anyone's (i.e. iraqi's) best interests in mind...

...period.

dude, see, your frame of reference betrays your youth, and for those of us who's voting career can be measured in multiple decades, it's sorta funny to read the points you're making, as though they were original ideas, or somehow not a constant and established political gestalt, that can be argued to be common to all political eras, and administrations, only varying by small degrees.

Now, this doesn't mean your attitudes aren't arguably valid, (though they ignore the immense and intractible entrenchment of the american two party political system...for your ideas to work, that has to be dismantled. Good luck) it just means that we've heard them all before, rehashed and hashlike. also, there is some truth to the aphorism regarding a person being politically liberal as a student, and one in the working, adult world, winding up being pressured into political conservatism. If that happens to you, you certainly wouldn't be the first.

Calling you a hippy for it, has nothing to do with whether I am personally politically conservative or liberal, and more to do with just guiving you shit for blathering on about a stereotypical political attitude...because you're young. ;-) BTW, one of your funnier assertions is that so many of useresponding are "conservatives" HAW. you have NO idea how wrong you actually are.

we're just giving you shit. because you're young.

you smelly hippy. actually, you're not even a real hippy, I grew up with real hippies, and you sir, are no hippy.

see, it just makes me laugh. you smelly hippy.


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