Forums: Climbing Information: Regional Discussions:
Potter Climbs Delicate Arch
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for Regional Discussions

Premier Sponsor:

 
First page Previous page 1 ... 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 Next page Last page  View All


roy_hinkley_jr


May 11, 2006, 6:56 PM
Post #201 of 322 (41671 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 8, 2005
Posts: 652

Re: Potter Climbs Delicate Arch [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/..._073955_05112006.jpg


hugepedro


May 11, 2006, 7:30 PM
Post #202 of 322 (41671 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 28, 2002
Posts: 2875

Re: Potter Climbs Delicate Arch [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I sent a letter to Patagonia. I also sent a letter to Arches N.P. expressing my disgust with Potter's actions and my support for Park rules.


Partner cracklover


May 11, 2006, 7:40 PM
Post #203 of 322 (41671 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10162

Re: Potter Climbs Delicate Arch [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I agree with Dingus in this: I'm psyched that there are people like Potter out there pushing the limits. Pushing limits is what we all do as climbers, so I think he's a fair ambassador in that way.

I agree with others in this: I think the way he went about it was wrong. I don't know if he deserves to lose his job or not. I have no desire to influence that decision one way or another.

Here's my take on the whole situation: As climbers we need to balance our desire to "go for it" with our self-regulating instinct, or we'll take a bad fall. I think Dean Potter has taken a bad fall - he just may not know it.

GO


roy_hinkley_jr


May 11, 2006, 10:33 PM
Post #204 of 322 (41671 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 8, 2005
Posts: 652

Re: Potter Climbs Delicate Arch [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
From the Access Fund:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
May 10, 2006

Contact:
Robb Shurr, Access Fund
robb@accessfund.org
303.545.6772 x100
Access Fund Condemns Delicate Arch, UT Climb

A recent ascent of Delicate Arch in Utah’s Arches National Park has fueled a firestorm of media coverage and interest from federal land managers, politicians and the climbing community. See Park tweaks rules after Delicate Arch climb in the May 10 edition of the SALT LAKE TRIBUNE (http://www.sltrib.com/ci_3804296). Many individuals—both climbers and non-climbers—have expressed outrage at this event, and the climb has received both statewide and national media attention.

The Access Fund does not condone the climb of Delicate Arch and the actions of this individual are not representative of the climbing community.

The Access Fund supports justifiable climbing restrictions which protect natural and cultural resources and works towards effective and reasonable climbing management policies is cooperation with land managers and the greater climbing community. This process of discussion limits unnecessary restrictions, results in climbing management policies based on mutual agreement, and helps to ensure cooperation and effective enforcement of climbing policies.

We trust the public will understand that the actions of one person should not condemn the larger community of climbers who are equally appalled by this event. The Access Fund urges all climbers to recognize and limit the impacts of their climbing practices on the environment and other users of the land and to respect existing closures. If questionable restrictions arise, climbing advocacy efforts opposing such unreasonable restrictions should follow proper administrative procedures.

Climbers pride ourselves on respect for the environment and the Access Fund’s stewardship efforts around the country speak directly to the greater climbing public taking responsibility for climbing resources.

They sent out a revised press release today. Same as above but with one extra paragraph.
In reply to:
On May 10, Access Fund policy director Jason Keith met with Arches National Park Supervisor Laura Joss to address these incidents as they relate to future climbing access in Arches National Park. At this meeting the Access Fund was told that while no immediate additional restrictions are planned, future climbing access in Arches and other national parks may be restricted as a result of the Delicate Arch incident. Utah’s US Congressional delegation has also weighed in but the possibility of additional restrictions is not known at this time.

Thanks Dean! You're a true inspiration to climbers everywhere.


od


May 11, 2006, 10:43 PM
Post #205 of 322 (41671 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 27, 2005
Posts: 3

Re: Potter Climbs Delicate Arch [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

if you're gonna do something like this, do it for yourself, not for the camera or video .... and then repeating it several times! I guess he thinks it supports the patagonia 'dirtbag' badboy image -- it would ... if you didnt have it photographed! I dont think Croft had someone take photos of him soloing Astroman. what a promo homo ....


jaybro


May 11, 2006, 11:07 PM
Post #206 of 322 (41671 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 2, 2005
Posts: 441

Re: Potter Climbs Delicate Arch [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

"Plenty of negative press outside the climbing community."

I'll take your word for it, but, I just read through this list (posted above the above quote) and there is really nothing as critical as what is written on this thread; only one blanket condemnation.

Hasn't it been fifteen minutes already?


crimpandgo


May 11, 2006, 11:21 PM
Post #207 of 322 (41671 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 15, 2004
Posts: 1005

Re: Potter Climbs Delicate Arch [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
"Plenty of negative press outside the climbing community."

I'll take your word for it, but, I just read through this list (posted above the above quote) and there is really nothing as critical as what is written on this thread; only one blanket condemnation.

Hasn't it been fifteen minutes already?

So, you don't think the NPS considering closures of climbing areas based on DP's recent activities is critical enough?


rhythm164


May 11, 2006, 11:44 PM
Post #208 of 322 (41671 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 28, 2005
Posts: 964

Re: Potter Climbs Delicate Arch [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
I guess he thinks it supports the patagonia 'dirtbag' badboy image .

Is that the same dirtbag badboy image that embodies one of the most environmentally aware companies in business today? I can think of more than a few adjectives to describe Patagonia, 'badboy' doesn't make the list. Dirtbag however, does. :D


c-dub
Deleted

May 12, 2006, 12:51 AM
Post #209 of 322 (41671 views)
Shortcut

Registered:
Posts:

Re: Potter Climbs Delicate Arch [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Access issues are always touchy. On the one hand, people are always fighting to keep their favorite climbing area open. On the other hand, there is a healthy debate over what to keep open and what to designate off limits. My question is this: what makes a rock more beautiful than the next? Why should someone not be allowed to FREE SOLO - the purest form of climbing that is widely considered by the climbing community as a clean, responsible way of climbing - one rock formation that is in a national park, but be allowed to bolt the hell out of another rock formation that happens to be a little “off the map”? Why is delicate arch any more off limits than any other rock? Just because it’s more cool looking than the other rocks in the park?

I would say that dean potter should not have climbed delicate arch, solely because it was against park rules and is bad for a sensitive access area. However, access issues in arches, I feel like, should focus more on the delicate ecosystem surrounding the rocks than focusing on the rock itself. How many climbers tromp all over the desert within the park to climbs with blatant disregard of the delicate ground on which they walk? I’ve seen plenty myself. I don’t condone putting bolted anchors on delicate arch, but as long as potter climbed the arch in a clean and ethical way (publicity aside) I don’t feel that he deserves all of this criticism.

Oh, and as for the white chalk: whatever, that shit’ll buff out.

People are a bit too uptight about things like this...park service included. If they want to start closing climbs down because of this, they need to check themselves.


roy_hinkley_jr


May 12, 2006, 1:44 AM
Post #210 of 322 (41671 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 8, 2005
Posts: 652

Re: Potter Climbs Delicate Arch [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
My question is this: what makes a rock more beautiful than the next? Why should someone not be allowed to FREE SOLO - the purest form of climbing that is widely considered by the climbing community as a clean, responsible way of climbing - one rock formation that is in a national park, but be allowed to bolt the hell out of another rock formation that happens to be a little “off the map”? Why is delicate arch any more off limits than any other rock? Just because it’s more cool looking than the other rocks in the park?

Sounds like you haven't spent much time there. Hang out for a while and pay attention to who shows up. Yeah, there's the typical fastfoodfed tourons showing up in droves...who might not have otherwise gotten off their butts for a hike (is that a bad thing?). There's also an polyglot of tourists (lots of Germans IME) from around the world who paid the fee and make the trek to that specific rock because there are no others like it on the planet. At most dawns and sunsets when it isn't cloudy, you'll find serious photographers who drag a lot of heavy equipment to get an icon shot.

NONE of these people want to see selfish punks standing on top of that rock. That particular rock stands out like no other (only Landscape, Rainbow and a couple others even come close). A climber on ElCap, a Zion wall, or almost anywhere else you can name is insignificant. On top of an arch, they are a visual blight with far greater impact. Climbers seem to think they have more rights than anyone else. Potter thinks he's above all others...just another pissant who'll be forgotten in a decade, only he leaves a legacy of more regulation.


threefox


May 12, 2006, 4:11 AM
Post #211 of 322 (41671 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 1, 2002
Posts: 111

Re: Potter Climbs Delicate Arch [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
You guys really need to get a life.

Fuk the police.

Ya you're about intelligent.

Actually, I think your post took some considerable thought and preparation. It's of a quality that we seldom see. Thanks so much for showing us how well public education is preparing the leaders of tomorrow..

Adam


dudemanbu


May 12, 2006, 5:20 AM
Post #212 of 322 (41671 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 3, 2005
Posts: 941

Re: Potter Climbs Delicate Arch [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Honestly, idiots doing things like this are the reason that we have access problems.


areyoumydude


May 12, 2006, 7:16 AM
Post #213 of 322 (41671 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 28, 2003
Posts: 1971

Re: Potter Climbs Delicate Arch [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
You guys really need to get a life.

Fuk the police.

Thanks so much for showing us how well public education is preparing the leaders of tomorrow..

Adam

You're welcome.


areyoumydude


May 12, 2006, 7:18 AM
Post #214 of 322 (41671 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 28, 2003
Posts: 1971

Re: Potter Climbs Delicate Arch [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
You guys really need to get a life.

Fuk the police.

Thanks so much for showing us how well public education is preparing the leaders of tomorrow..

Adam

You're welcome.


azrockclimber


May 12, 2006, 12:46 PM
Post #215 of 322 (41671 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 28, 2005
Posts: 666

Re: Potter Climbs Delicate Arch [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
I agree with Dingus in this: I'm psyched that there are people like Potter out there pushing the limits. Pushing limits is what we all do as climbers, so I think he's a fair ambassador in that way.

I agree with others in this: I think the way he went about it was wrong. I don't know if he deserves to lose his job or not. I have no desire to influence that decision one way or another.

Here's my take on the whole situation: As climbers we need to balance our desire to "go for it" with our self-regulating instinct, or we'll take a bad fall. I think Dean Potter has taken a bad fall - he just may not know it.

GO

I think he went about it in a selfish manor. It was stupid..yes.. Why film it? ego? I dunno...not cool though.

I am not pissed enough about it that I want to try and get the guy fired :wtf: by writing a letter to patagonia and the NPS and shit. Thats a little extreme. Get you panties out of a bunch and suck it up all of those who are all butt sore about it.

A letter to the NPS touching on how you do not support his actions and that he is one rogue among many who do obey the rules there.

Next time you see him tell him it was f'ed up. He knows it already...Trying to get him fired or his spnsorship canceled is F'ed up... Fine him $2000.00 or whatever figure would be appropraite. ( I have no idea how much those guys make??)
...something like that would be pretty normal I would say.


fitzontherocks


May 12, 2006, 3:16 PM
Post #216 of 322 (41671 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 11, 2003
Posts: 864

Re: Potter Climbs Delicate Arch [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

C-dub, it's called DELICATE Arch for a reason. Look at the photo. One of the legs on the arch narrows to about 3-4'. And it's sandstone, not granite. It is, um, how you say-- delicate! Probably had something to do with why they put it off limits. It's not out of the realm of possibility that a 200-pounder could do some damage to it.


dingus


May 12, 2006, 4:02 PM
Post #217 of 322 (41671 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398

Re: Potter Climbs Delicate Arch [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
Honestly, idiots doing things like this are the reason that we have access problems.

Can you cite examples? I can't think of any frankly, where the actions of a sole climber caused the loss of access for an entire area.

Please advise, thanks
DMT


rockprodigy


May 12, 2006, 4:06 PM
Post #218 of 322 (41671 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 10, 2002
Posts: 1540

Re: Potter Climbs Delicate Arch [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

OK, I can't take it any more. The reason it is called "Delicate Arch":

The arch in question was originally called "Landscape Arch" becuase of it's dramatic position in front of an expansive desert. Another arch in the park was named "Delicate Arch" because it is very narrow (perhaps 3-4 feet), while covering a large (120ft?) span. This arch would never purposely be called "Landscape Arch" because the scenery is actually quite dull. Behind the arch is just a wall of red entrada sandstone...no landscape whatsoever. Sometime in the "olden days" a mapmaker screwed up a map, and switched the names of Landscape and Delicate Arch, so now we call Landscape Arch "Delicate Arch" and Delicate Arch "Landscape Arch".

That said, the arch is delicate (which anyone who has climbed in Arches and seen the damage should understand), but that's not why it's called "Delicate Arch". It's called that because someone made a mistake once upon a time.


dingus


May 12, 2006, 4:10 PM
Post #219 of 322 (41671 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398

Re: Potter Climbs Delicate Arch [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
Next time you see him tell him it was f'ed up. He knows it already...Trying to get him fired or his spnsorship canceled is F'ed up... Fine him $2000.00 or whatever figure would be appropraite. ( I have no idea how much those guys make??)
...something like that would be pretty normal I would say.

This is where I'm coming from too. The off with his head crowd, quien sabe, perhaps one day they'll be drinking their own koolaide for some stupid thing they did too. Not that I wish it on them either.

It would appear that he isn't going to be fined however. The missing pound of flesh, from whence will it be carved?

DMT


fitzontherocks


May 12, 2006, 4:13 PM
Post #220 of 322 (41671 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 11, 2003
Posts: 864

Re: Potter Climbs Delicate Arch [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Someone made another mistake on Sunday.


helios


May 12, 2006, 4:20 PM
Post #221 of 322 (41671 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 3, 2005
Posts: 56

Re: Potter Climbs Delicate Arch [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Rockprodigy condescended:
In reply to:
OK, I can't take it any more. The reason it is called "Delicate Arch":

The arch in question was originally called "Landscape Arch" becuase of it's dramatic position in front of an expansive desert. Another arch in the park was named "Delicate Arch" because it is very narrow (perhaps 3-4 feet), while covering a large (120ft?) span. This arch would never purposely be called "Landscape Arch" because the scenery is actually quite dull. Behind the arch is just a wall of red entrada sandstone...no landscape whatsoever. Sometime in the "olden days" a mapmaker screwed up a map, and switched the names of Landscape and Delicate Arch, so now we call Landscape Arch "Delicate Arch" and Delicate Arch "Landscape Arch".

Oh RRY?

From Wikipedia:

Because of its distinctive shape, the arch was known as "the Chaps" and "the Schoolmarm's Bloomers" by local cowboys. It was given its current name by Frank Beckwith, leader of the Arches National Monument Scientific Expedition, who explored the area in the winter of 1933-1934. (The story that the names of Delicate Arch and Landscape Arch were inadvertently exchanged due to a signage mixup by the National Park Service is false.)


roy_hinkley_jr


May 12, 2006, 4:32 PM
Post #222 of 322 (41671 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 8, 2005
Posts: 652

Re: Potter Climbs Delicate Arch [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
Because of its distinctive shape, the arch was known as "the Chaps" and "the Schoolmarm's Bloomers" by local cowboys. It was given its current name by Frank Beckwith, leader of the Arches National Monument Scientific Expedition, who explored the area in the winter of 1933-1934. (The story that the names of Delicate Arch and Landscape Arch were inadvertently exchanged due to a signage mixup by the National Park Service is false.)

Yep. According to the USGS web site (http://geonames.usgs.gov), other early names included: Bloomers Arch, Mary's Bloomers, Old Maids Bloomers, Pants Crtoch, Salt Wash Arch, School Marms Pants, Schoolmarms Bloomers, and The Chaps.


roy_hinkley_jr


May 12, 2006, 4:47 PM
Post #223 of 322 (41671 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 8, 2005
Posts: 652

Re: Potter Climbs Delicate Arch [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
This is where I'm coming from too. The off with his head crowd, quien sabe, perhaps one day they'll be drinking their own koolaide for some stupid thing they did too. Not that I wish it on them either.

Sponsored athletes are on annual contracts. There is no guarantee it will be renewed automatically. That decision comes down to many factors including performance, behavior, exposure, etc. A company has to evaluate how and where it's limited advertising dollars are best spent. In this case, a paid spokesperson has single-handedly managed to get an entire activity (dumb as it is) banned from a national park and focused negative attention on the brand. Perhaps when dangling from a string, you should think twice about cutting it.


dingus


May 12, 2006, 5:02 PM
Post #224 of 322 (41671 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398

Re: Potter Climbs Delicate Arch [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

A quick point and a question:

In reply to:
Sponsored athletes are on annual contracts. There is no guarantee it will be renewed automatically. That decision comes down to many factors including performance, behavior, exposure, etc. A company has to evaluate how and where it's limited advertising dollars are best spent.

Understood. What patagonia does or doesn't do with respect to Potter is obviously their perogitive. I wasn't calling on them to fire or not fire Potter. I am talking about those who contact Patagonia in a specific effort to get Potter fired, at least some of whom have never even set foot in Arches NP.

In reply to:
In this case, a paid spokesperson has single-handedly managed to get an entire activity (dumb as it is) banned from a national park and focused negative attention on the brand. Perhaps when dangling from a string, you should think twice about cutting it.

Question (sincere): Earlier in this thread you made the point that Potter parsed the existing regulations to create his loophole (I agreed with that assessment btw). The park reacted the next day by rewording the existing reg. You stated uis said basically the same thing. Then I guess that two days later additional rock climbing regulations were published as well. I read through it and thought it again stated climbing was prohibited on named arches? And too, there is the prohitition against new routing... is THAT the banning you speak of? Cause the way I read that post... existing routes can be climbed and even maintained so long as power tools don't come into play.

Please advise (and peace be upon you my brother)

DMT


killclimbz


May 12, 2006, 5:18 PM
Post #225 of 322 (41671 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 6, 2000
Posts: 1964

Re: Potter Climbs Delicate Arch [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
This is where I'm coming from too. The off with his head crowd, quien sabe, perhaps one day they'll be drinking their own koolaide for some stupid thing they did too. Not that I wish it on them either.

Sponsored athletes are on annual contracts. There is no guarantee it will be renewed automatically. That decision comes down to many factors including performance, behavior, exposure, etc. A company has to evaluate how and where it's limited advertising dollars are best spent. In this case, a paid spokesperson has single-handedly managed to get an entire activity (dumb as it is) banned from a national park and focused negative attention on the brand. Perhaps when dangling from a string, you should think twice about cutting it.

I don't remember seeing that climbing has been banned because of this. I've seen the Park Service threaten a ban. Which is something they love to do as a scare tactic to try to keep from others pulling the same stunt.

Am I wrong???

First page Previous page 1 ... 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 Next page Last page  View All

Forums : Climbing Information : Regional Discussions

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook