|
dbrayack
Oct 20, 2006, 3:01 PM
Post #1 of 42
(6550 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 1260
|
Just looking to see what thoughts are, but I heard that someone took photos of some young guy soloing a super hardcore route.
If the dude would have fallen, it would have been certain death, the following lawsuits likely leading to the closure of some of the best climbing in the region.
Do you think that is being irresponsible? I can't really think of anything NOT irrepsonsible about it, both encouraging someone to throw away their life for a spotlight and at the same time jeopardizing access to an already fragile-acces area.
|
|
|
|
|
atpeaceinbozeman
Oct 20, 2006, 3:53 PM
Post #2 of 42
(6548 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 17, 2002
Posts: 478
|
I really need more details than that.
How young?
How hard of a route?
Did the photographer encourage, or mearly photograph something that would have been done anyways?
Not sure if I can respond about the access issues.
I've shot photos of people soloing; they are usually more comfortable about it that I am....
|
|
|
|
|
dbrayack
Oct 20, 2006, 3:55 PM
Post #3 of 42
(6548 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 1260
|
The dude was old enough to know better, and said that he'd solo the route whether the photographer took photos of him doing it or not.
So the said photographer ascended and took photos.
It was a hard and very commiting route (13 range)
|
|
|
|
|
olderic
Oct 20, 2006, 4:00 PM
Post #4 of 42
(6548 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 17, 2003
Posts: 1539
|
You are implying that the climbing was done for the sake of the camera at the request of the photographer - is that the case?
Of course it has been done. One of the more gripping climbing moments was 30+ years ago when Hot Henry Barber free soloed a route (10+ equivalent grade I think) for live TV in England. His biography account of it is interersting with the insights he had into the reasons for soloing.
|
|
|
|
|
atpeaceinbozeman
Oct 20, 2006, 4:02 PM
Post #5 of 42
(6548 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 17, 2002
Posts: 478
|
Well, I guess that's that. More of a personal choice then.
It's still a bit wierd to think about/or shoot photos of people soloing hard, or at all.
I have a few shoots lined up that both give me the willies; a 9 and a 12...
I still feel I should shoot them, but watching a fall would be horrible.
|
|
|
|
|
dbrayack
Oct 20, 2006, 4:03 PM
Post #6 of 42
(6548 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 1260
|
The individual soloed the route so he could have photos taken of him. The photographer didn't encourage the climbing, though only half heartedly tried to discourage him.
|
|
|
|
|
krusher4
Oct 20, 2006, 4:06 PM
Post #7 of 42
(6548 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 17, 2005
Posts: 997
|
We all chose our own lives, but this was a minor. Regardless I think this is a troll. Is it against the law to die soloing???
|
|
|
|
|
8flood8
Oct 20, 2006, 4:16 PM
Post #9 of 42
(6548 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 1436
|
a friend of mine solod a .10d the other week.
he solo'd it twice for a HD camera, then he posted it on youtube and then posted that to his myspace.
he did it for the camera and the chicks.
i gave him no props and asked him why he clipped in on his daisy after he got to the top. heh, he used a rope to lower
if you ask me, that ain't soloing
|
|
|
|
|
krusher4
Oct 20, 2006, 4:35 PM
Post #10 of 42
(6548 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 17, 2005
Posts: 997
|
In reply to: a friend of mine solod a .10d the other week. he solo'd it twice for a HD camera, then he posted it on youtube and then posted that to his myspace. he did it for the camera and the chicks. i gave him no props and asked him why he clipped in on his daisy after he got to the top. heh, he used a rope to lower if you ask me, that ain't soloing
I'd like to see that, you should post a link?
|
|
|
|
|
8flood8
Oct 20, 2006, 4:45 PM
Post #11 of 42
(6548 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 1436
|
http://profile.myspace.com/...13-9591-186abeadab37
btw its a 5.10d not a 10+/11-
the guy who made edited the film put that in i guess so my bro could feel cooler when all the 13 year olds check him out on myspace hehe
(all this said with all the love in my heart for my bro)
|
|
|
|
|
olderic
Oct 20, 2006, 5:05 PM
Post #12 of 42
(6548 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 17, 2003
Posts: 1539
|
In reply to: btw its a 5.10d not a 10+/11-
There is a difference?
|
|
|
|
|
dbrayack
Oct 20, 2006, 5:08 PM
Post #13 of 42
(6548 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 1260
|
Can you direclty link the photo? I cannot view myspace at work.
|
|
|
|
|
kostik
Oct 20, 2006, 5:09 PM
Post #14 of 42
(6548 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 26, 2005
Posts: 275
|
Last night a 17-old young man showed me his picture of climbing 5.13b solo in Rock & Ice taken by certain D. Brayack. I sincerely congratulated him on his achievement and made a remark that if I were his parent, I would start a lawsuit against the photographer for endangering minors. My reason was that a photo and an article in R&I and $300 for candies from sponsor, which that kid had received, was inadequate incentive to risk his life.
G.K. is a great climber. One of the strongest in the US and in the world. The photographer had better taken pictures of him sending another 5.14 instead of encouraging him to solo 13b for the second time.
Think what you'll tell his parents and his big brother in case you meet them sometime. Besides, I need this kid around for some time to show me beta on some bouldering problems.
|
|
|
|
|
dbrayack
Oct 20, 2006, 5:13 PM
Post #15 of 42
(6548 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 1260
|
Well...now that that cat's out of the bag...
|
|
|
|
|
csproul
Oct 20, 2006, 5:20 PM
Post #16 of 42
(6548 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 4, 2004
Posts: 1769
|
In reply to: Last night a 17-old young man...
In reply to: The dude was old enough to know better
I'm not so sure these two go together.
|
|
|
|
|
karma
Oct 20, 2006, 5:24 PM
Post #17 of 42
(6548 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 4, 2005
Posts: 95
|
Personally, I feel that publishing photos of someone soloing a route is supporting self destructive behaviour. I've read about why people solo but I think it is all bunk. The act is nothing more than ego massage and a means of being disgustingly self serving. I have never once heard a good reason for soloing a route. Have you?
Just because a climber has "wired" a climb does not mean that something could go wrong, that a hold has changed, loosened or that moisture has seeped into a pocket or crack. Maybe I don't get it, like modern art, but the act of willfully foregoing protection in a sport that is known for biting back hard just seems ridiculously ignorant.
I raced motorcycles for years and never once heard a rider say that they want to go racing in the nude because it will be more pure than racing in full leathers and gear. You protect yourself as much as you can because when you are the most comfortable, the most wired, that is when you are most likely to loose the front, brake a little too deep or crack the throttle a little too early.
|
|
|
|
|
piton
Oct 20, 2006, 5:31 PM
Post #18 of 42
(6548 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 11, 2002
Posts: 1034
|
i once had sex without a condom.
|
|
|
|
|
dbrayack
Oct 20, 2006, 5:48 PM
Post #19 of 42
(6548 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 1260
|
Piton Wrote:
In reply to: i once had sex without a condom.
You know what that leads too right??????????? Now that is irresponsible.
|
|
|
|
|
8flood8
Oct 20, 2006, 5:58 PM
Post #20 of 42
(6548 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 1436
|
In reply to: In reply to: btw its a 5.10d not a 10+/11- There is a difference?
the move is BARELY 5.10d
the route is a one move wonder and it can be made staticly, not with all the hype of the 2 hand dyno.
anyway. the film i posted is pure hype especially putting the /.11a rating next to it.
i'd call the route .10d for onsight and
10- for any subsequent attempts. That is the difference i was inferring.
***edit
watching the video again you can hear him say" .10d - .11a ... i'm gonna solo it." So it wasn't the editor who added that in, it was my bro, hyping up the hype.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
clarki
Oct 20, 2006, 6:17 PM
Post #22 of 42
(6548 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 24, 2004
Posts: 192
|
DOOOOD, that was SOOOO badass! all points off dyno? I almost crapped my pants! And when he did the "hang-loose" thingy at the top, well..... 'nuff said.
Dan Osman lives again.
|
|
|
|
|
glyrocks
Oct 20, 2006, 6:37 PM
Post #23 of 42
(6548 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 614
|
In reply to: Personally, I feel that publishing photos of someone soloing a route is supporting self destructive behaviour. I've read about why people solo but I think it is all bunk. The act is nothing more than ego massage and a means of being disgustingly self serving. I have never once heard a good reason for soloing a route. Have you? Just because a climber has "wired" a climb does not mean that something could go wrong, that a hold has changed, loosened or that moisture has seeped into a pocket or crack. Maybe I don't get it, like modern art, but the act of willfully foregoing protection in a sport that is known for biting back hard just seems ridiculously ignorant. I raced motorcycles for years and never once heard a rider say that they want to go racing in the nude because it will be more pure than racing in full leathers and gear. You protect yourself as much as you can because when you are the most comfortable, the most wired, that is when you are most likely to loose the front, brake a little too deep or crack the throttle a little too early.
Well, with all due respect, the beauty of doing an egotistical sport solo, is no one else needs to understand.
|
|
|
|
|
8flood8
Oct 20, 2006, 6:52 PM
Post #24 of 42
(6548 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 1436
|
In reply to: DOOOOD, that was SOOOO badass! all points off dyno? I almost crapped my pants! And when he did the "hang-loose" thingy at the top, well..... 'nuff said. Dan Osman lives again.
that is exactly why i didn't give him any props.
He idolizes Dano.
I don't need any more similarities between my bro and Dano because we all know how that story ended. (albeit, it wasn't soloing)
|
|
|
|
|
dbrayack
Oct 20, 2006, 7:08 PM
Post #25 of 42
(6548 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 1260
|
Man, Peter Croft has always been my hero. When I solo stuff, I always make sure people are there in case i get jacked, but its not to show off to anyone but myself.
it helps with comfidence, for example, I'm a much better SPort/Tard climber because I solo stuff and have face my fear. Compared to soloing, tard climbing and sport climbing are a lot more mellow.
I guess that I just de-sensitized myself.
-Danno
|
|
|
|
|
joe
Nov 11, 2006, 12:05 AM
Post #26 of 42
(3560 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 22, 2003
Posts: 897
|
In reply to: I have never once heard a good reason for soloing a route. Have you?
yes, many. unfortunately, you're a gym climbing wanker so i'll not waste anymore bandwidth trying to splain it to you.
In reply to: Maybe I don't get it.
ps. "hiring" someone to photograph you soloing is the weakest shit ever. it'd been funny to see that myspace fruitcake deck from his Stalloney dyno on that sport route. fucking kook.
(This post was edited by joe on Feb 24, 2007, 2:58 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
kostik
Feb 23, 2007, 6:44 PM
Post #27 of 42
(2101 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 26, 2005
Posts: 275
|
Btw, dbrayack, did the aforementioned kid arrange with you recently for a new photo session of himself soling another 5.13?
(This post was edited by kostik on Feb 23, 2007, 6:46 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
zeke_sf
Feb 23, 2007, 7:04 PM
Post #28 of 42
(2077 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 28, 2006
Posts: 18730
|
Soloing: the hot button topic of all time. Well, that and dogs at the crag.
I believe if you are soloing, you probably know why. If you are so light as to get socially pressured into soloing, then an extended stay at the hospital or a nice, long dirt nap is a just dessert. R.I. to the mothurfuckin' P., dumbass.
|
|
|
|
|
trenchdigger
Feb 23, 2007, 7:05 PM
Post #29 of 42
(2072 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 9, 2003
Posts: 1447
|
[quote "dbrayack"]Well...now that that cat's out of the bag...[/quote]
Shocker... I'm sure nobody here would have guessed.
|
|
|
|
|
reg
Feb 23, 2007, 7:06 PM
Post #30 of 42
(2070 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 1560
|
that sure as hell dosen't look like a 10 unless the jump is the 10. the rest looks 7ish
|
|
|
|
|
guangzhou
Feb 25, 2007, 8:54 AM
Post #31 of 42
(1976 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 27, 2004
Posts: 3389
|
Climbing is wonderful and full of personal choices.
|
|
|
|
|
petsfed
Feb 25, 2007, 1:56 PM
Post #32 of 42
(1929 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 25, 2002
Posts: 8599
|
In reply to: Just because a climber has "wired" a climb does not mean that something could go wrong, that a hold has changed, loosened or that moisture has seeped into a pocket or crack. Maybe I don't get it, like modern art, but the act of willfully foregoing protection in a sport that is known for biting back hard just seems ridiculously ignorant.
Then you never will get it. The point of soloing has never been to just increase the risk. The point was to force you into that mental stance where you had to focus 100% on what you were doing at all times. The experience is very similar to a meditative trance. People make mistakes when they convince themselves that they have a route wired because they get careless. They remember a hold differently, they act more dynamically when a static move has a lower chance of failure (or vice versa). When people operate like they were on-sighting a route, they tend to climb more carefully and conservatively.
I don't really see how a 17 year old could somehow be less aware than an 18 year old (since we're making the minor differentiation) of where that limit is, especially if either is capable of sending 13b. If the photographer didn't encourage the soloing, its not really the photographer's fault if the person dies whilst soloing.
To use an anology that panders directly to the soloing=selfish-suicide crowd, you can't sue a rope maker for making rope readily available for hanging oneself, so long as the rope manufacturer doesn't endorse the hanging. It was stated that the person would solo the route whether a photographer was there or not, so I don't see what difference it makes.
(This post was edited by petsfed on Feb 25, 2007, 1:57 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
sausalito
Feb 25, 2007, 3:38 PM
Post #33 of 42
(1893 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 20, 2005
Posts: 155
|
I could care less if someone solos but I think the same of someone that rides a motorcycle without a helmet. If you get hurt your insurance should not have to take the brunt of the costs and if you have no insurance? Well then I think the hospital should only be obliged to keep you pain free until you pass on. No invasive surgery at all.
People talk this idividual reasons for taking all sorts of risks.... as a trauma RN it maddens me to see EASILY avoidable situations. However I am not for telling someone what to do... but if you take those risks I think you should have to live or die with the consequences. That also goes for people that take the risk of smoking, eating poorly and so on.....
|
|
|
|
|
marckylove
Feb 26, 2007, 2:19 AM
Post #34 of 42
(1821 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 27, 2006
Posts: 44
|
[quote "karma"]Personally, I feel that publishing photos of someone soloing a route is supporting self destructive behaviour. I've read about why people solo but I think it is all bunk. The act is nothing more than ego massage and a means of being disgustingly self serving. I have never once heard a good reason for soloing a route. Have you?
Just because a climber has "wired" a climb does not mean that something could go wrong, that a hold has changed, loosened or that moisture has seeped into a pocket or crack. Maybe I don't get it, like modern art, but the act of willfully foregoing protection in a sport that is known for biting back hard just seems ridiculously ignorant.
I raced motorcycles for years and never once heard a rider say that they want to go racing in the nude because it will be more [i]pure[/i] than racing in full leathers and gear. You protect yourself as much as you can because when you are the most comfortable, the most [i]wired[/i], that is when you are most likely to loose the front, brake a little too deep or crack the throttle a little too early.[/quote]
You simply cannot understand it until you do it yourself. If you have not done it, you cannot bash it.. it's that simple.
|
|
|
|
|
kostik
Feb 26, 2007, 3:13 PM
Post #35 of 42
(1788 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 26, 2005
Posts: 275
|
I have no doubt that the young man in question can solo 5.13b. He is a very strong climber and he is fearless. I also agree that for some people soloing has enormous zen value. However, the real, legal world is rather dull.
What may happen to a photographer if a teenager dies during his commercial photosession? Waiver or no waiver. Will the editors continue doing business with this photographer? Not to mention a possible lawsuit from kid's parents and a prospect of meeting with his two big brothers.
The young man wants to get his picture in a magazine and make a few hundred bucks along with it. There is nothing wrong about it. Why don't you show him the ways to do this without risking his life, like doing 20 5.14s during the summer or something like that? You are an adult, you are a pro in publishing business, you have his ear. It's like an old soldier preventing a young one from needlessly risking his life. Think about it.
|
|
|
|
|
j_ung
Feb 26, 2007, 3:58 PM
Post #36 of 42
(1756 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690
|
kostik wrote: I have no doubt that the young man in question can solo 5.13b. He is a very strong climber and he is fearless. I also agree that for some people soloing has enormous zen value. However, the real, legal world is rather dull. What may happen to a photographer if a teenager dies during his commercial photosession? Waiver or no waiver. Will the editors continue doing business with this photographer? Not to mention a possible lawsuit from kid's parents and a prospect of meeting with his two big brothers. The young man wants to get his picture in a magazine and make a few hundred bucks along with it. There is nothing wrong about it. Why don't you show him the ways to do this without risking his life, like doing 20 5.14s during the summer or something like that? You are an adult, you are a pro in publishing business, you have his ear. It's like an old soldier preventing a young one from needlessly risking his life. Think about it.
1. The kid said he would solo the route with or without the photos.
2. Regardless of whether or not he's underage, dbrayack isn't his parent and wasn't acting as his guardian at the crag.
3. There was no prior arrangement to sell the photo to Rock & Ice. dbrayack, came home and said, "I got shots of somebody soling Bohica. Hey, I wonder if R&I might be interested."
4. Climbers don't get paid for their photos in mags. Photographers get paid for selling them afterward.
So, before you continue to argue (in writing and in public) that dbrayack endangered a minor's life for money, I suggest you, in turn, consider the legal ramifications of libel, which might make the real, legal world a bit less dull for you.
|
|
|
|
|
dbrayack
Feb 26, 2007, 4:22 PM
Post #38 of 42
(1731 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 1260
|
karma wrote: Personally, I feel that publishing photos of someone soloing a route is supporting self destructive behaviour. I've read about why people solo but I think it is all bunk. The act is nothing more than ego massage and a means of being disgustingly self serving. I have never once heard a good reason for soloing a route. Have you?
I solo stuff alot...especially at my previos home crag; I don't really tell anyone about it, however, except for my close friends. Its a good way to get in a lot of mileage, + it helps to desensitive Tard and Sport leading...
(This post was edited by dbrayack on Feb 26, 2007, 4:23 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
j_ung
Feb 26, 2007, 4:59 PM
Post #39 of 42
(1705 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690
|
dbrayack wrote: karma wrote: Personally, I feel that publishing photos of someone soloing a route is supporting self destructive behaviour. I've read about why people solo but I think it is all bunk. The act is nothing more than ego massage and a means of being disgustingly self serving. I have never once heard a good reason for soloing a route. Have you? I solo stuff alot...especially at my previos home crag; I don't really tell anyone about it, however, except for my close friends. Its a good way to get in a lot of mileage, + it helps to desensitive Tard and Sport leading...
Don't bother, Dan.
|
|
|
|
|
dhaulagiri
Feb 26, 2007, 8:08 PM
Post #40 of 42
(1663 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 29, 2003
Posts: 236
|
Or what do you tell all the other young kids standing around at the very popular crag if their friend falls and kills himself right in front of them.
|
|
|
|
|
j_ung
Feb 26, 2007, 10:32 PM
Post #41 of 42
(1633 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690
|
"Avoid the loose block below the anchor"?
(This post was edited by j_ung on Feb 26, 2007, 10:33 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
petsfed
Feb 27, 2007, 1:30 AM
Post #42 of 42
(1587 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 25, 2002
Posts: 8599
|
j_ung wrote: "Avoid the loose block below the anchor"?
LOL!!
So hilariously cynical it needs to be quoted
|
|
|
|
|
|
