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dylan1
Oct 12, 2007, 3:49 PM
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I just bought a new set of Black Diamond cams from r.e.i. 20% off sale. They are "Made in China" I would of never thought that the cams were not made in Salt Lake City.
I am going to return them. China can't seem to make a toy right...trust a cam?
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kmc
Oct 12, 2007, 3:58 PM
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You can send them to me if you dont trust them.
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dylan1
Oct 12, 2007, 4:02 PM
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o.k....you can have them. But shipping cost will be $500.00
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microbarn
Oct 12, 2007, 4:12 PM
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dylan1 wrote: I just bought a new set of Black Diamond cams from r.e.i. 20% off sale. They are "Made in China" I would of never thought that the cams were not made in Salt Lake City. I am going to return them. China can't seem to make a toy right...trust a cam?
You're silly
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shrug7
Oct 12, 2007, 4:31 PM
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Maybe just the ones at REI...
and to add...maybe just the ones 20% off....
and...been reading the "luke warm deals thread?"
And another edit.... Just spoke with a friend.
"this is how it works: there are small buyers and large buyers, large buyers want it cheep and things are bade in bulk typically in overseas factories (China). Small buyers only get a few of each thing and don't qualify for the bulk ordering so they typically get goods from local plants"
(This post was edited by shrug7 on Oct 12, 2007, 4:47 PM)
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fitzontherocks
Oct 12, 2007, 4:50 PM
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From BD's web site:
"All of our protection, Camalots, Stoppers, Micro Stoppers and Hexes are designed, manufactured and rigorously tested at Black Diamond, meaning you have one less thing to worry about when you’re runout, pumped and gunning for the anchors."
And from REI's web site description of BD C4s:
"Manufactured, inspected and individually tested in USA
Made in USA."
So what's the real deal? I think I'd raise hell with REI and find out what the deal is. Not that "Made in China" is necessarily bad, but this is a misrepresentation. Unless you're just making all this up, of course.
(This post was edited by fitzontherocks on Oct 12, 2007, 4:53 PM)
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blueeyedclimber
Oct 12, 2007, 4:51 PM
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dylan1 wrote: I just bought a new set of Black Diamond cams from r.e.i. 20% off sale. They are "Made in China" I would of never thought that the cams were not made in Salt Lake City. I am going to return them. China can't seem to make a toy right...trust a cam?
I think you'll be fine as long as you don't put them in your mouth.
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reverse_dyno
Oct 12, 2007, 4:56 PM
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I think we should all email black diamond to complain. I just did.
Lets think, lets send personal safety gear manufacturing to a country where the people are not highly education and have a hard time understanding English.
Then lets send them the designs for the life saving equipment so that they can try and make it. Do not the many recent recalls due to lead paint make it clear that the company over cite in China is lacking?
DB US:
bdmo@bdel.com
DB International:
international@bdel.com
DB china:
http://www.bdel.com/china/index.php
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dylan1
Oct 12, 2007, 5:00 PM
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Under the barcode on the back page of the little book attached to each cam is printed Made in China by Black Diamond...
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the_climber
Oct 12, 2007, 5:01 PM
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reverse_dyno wrote: *snip*Lets think, lets send personal safety gear manufacturing to a country where the people *snip* have a hard time understanding English.
They live in CHINA, Would you expect them to have a good understanding of English? English is a prominant language, but not he end all be all world language.
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dylan1
Oct 12, 2007, 5:02 PM
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omg...i was sucking on one yesterday!
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caughtinside
Oct 12, 2007, 5:06 PM
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the_climber wrote: reverse_dyno wrote: *snip*Lets think, lets send personal safety gear manufacturing to a country where the people *snip* have a hard time understanding English. They live in CHINA, Would you expect them to have a good understanding of English? English is a prominant language, but not he end all be all world language.
HAHAHAHA!!! They don't speak english. Clearly, they're too fucking dumb to make gear. I love it.
Anyway, it's been no secret for a while now that BD has moved its camalot production to china. REI probably just hasn't updated their website.
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powair
Oct 12, 2007, 5:06 PM
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BD moved prodction over there sometime late last year i belive. The majority of the cams are now being made over there. Even local climbing shops have the china cams now. They're exactly the same...
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scottb
Oct 12, 2007, 5:15 PM
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fwiw, I ordered two C4s direct from BD earlier this year and one of them had the "Made In China for BD" label, so it's not just REI. I've gotten most of my cams direct from BD (it's been a few years) and a few were gifts from REI (about a year ago). This was the first one with the "made in china" label. I was like "WTF?", then I forgot about it and went climbing. It hasn't exploded yet.
Those of you who email BD, be sure to post their response if you get one.
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c4c
Oct 12, 2007, 5:34 PM
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What is the issue? Companies that manufacture their cams in the US don't necessarily have better QC --ie: aliens
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cameltoe
Oct 12, 2007, 5:51 PM
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... and I for one would like to point out tha americans don't speak english properly either, they speak american...
In fact when I speak english I often find americans also have difficulties understanding it..
(I feel this is about the same level as commeting on BD cams being made in china)
CT out
(p.s. for those who didn't work it out already I am actually English)
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sthcrag510
Oct 12, 2007, 6:08 PM
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To calm everyone down. The black diamond plant in China is run by black diamond united states employees. They go through the same manufacturing process there as over here from i understand. Check this thread out it explains it alot better than i can.
http://www.mountainproject.com/...e_in_china/106015512
This is pretty reassuring if you ask me. This is an Email received by a fellow climber who email'd BD to ask questions about the China Plant or whatever you want to call it.
Thanks for your thoughtfully composed questions. In addition, I have
just read the thread on MountainProject and I am expanding upon your
questions so as to set the record straight for all those there. Everyone
is entitled to their own opinion, however it helps when they have the
facts vs. rumors to develop those opinions from.
Before addressing the more itemized claims it is important to note that
BD is 100% committed to building the finest climbing gear on the planet.
We go to great lengths to evaluate our processes in house and gain third
party certification to the extent that we lead the industry in this
regard. As a growing global brand, when we evaluate our production we
must be unbiased as to the best overall course of action in terms of
quality, cost and location. Our aim is to constantly improve our systems
and compromise nothing.
First off, it is important to understand that our manufacturing of
goods, specifically pro, is being done in OUR factory in China. This is
not an outsourced vendor operation. This is a Black Diamond built,
owned, and managed facility that is operated and staffed by Black
Diamond employees.
The BD team that got the operation going and is managing it has and/or
does include the former head of engineering and manufacturing of BD SLC,
the second in command of our QA department, our senior special project
guy, one of our lead process engineers and a host of other BD employees
(including myself) who have shuttled back and forth between BD Asia and
BD North America. For that matter, we have had BD Europe employees there
helping out as well. Conversely, we have had a steady flow of BD Asia
employees coming here to SLC to train.
Secondly, please understand that the testing equipment, testing
standards, and training have all come from BD USA and are managed by BD
SLC people at this time. For that matter, our BD facility just passed
its ISO-9001 audit that was performed by the same French Senior Auditor
from APAV-ASCERT that has been certifying our SLC operation for the past
half dozen years. He had nothing but compliments and we are THE first
company in our industry to have certification via a European certified
body.
Thirdly, understand that the supply chain of components and parts is the
same as it has been. The cams going onto the Camalots are made from
USA-produced7000 series aluminum, that are machined on our CNCs overseen
by our engineers; the anodizing is done by Easton Alumuinum here in SLC
and then they are shipped to our Asian facility. Cable, springs, and
other parts still come from here or from the same suppliers that we were
using when we were assembling them here. The supply chain is not
changed.
The Asian employees at BD's operation are well trained, dedicated, adult
professionals who work in a new, very modern facility that is the envy
of people in SLC. All of them who have worked for us get out climbing on
company trips and we have built a very large, climbing wall at the
facility that allows employees to climb at lunch and after work. Our
training and their dedication is nothing less than inspiring.
As you know, when you order an iPod or a PowerBook directly from Apple
it comes directly from their facility in China. If you are living in
Asia and purchase an Audi A4 or A6 it is being made in China and some of
the Euro luxury manufacturers are preparing to export their first
Chinese-made cars. Having climbed and worked in China, I can assure you
that the Chinese are a joy to climb with; take great pride in their
work; and are capable of great things. The question simply comes down to
management and ownership and the vision and commitment of those in
charge.
BD Asia shares BD's ethos, commitment to high quality, and they share
our passion for the life-defining activity of climbing. It is truly the
world's universal Esperanto a language we all not only speak but feel.
BD is a very global brand just like climbing and skiing are global
endeavors. For that matter, some of our fastest sales growth has been in
China and Asia as a middle class emerges and has time to explore the
beauty and challenge of Asia's crags and mountains. The marketplace
feels much like the U.S. felt like in the very late 60s and early 70s.
BD is committed to being global and to being an intimate and
contributing member of each climbing/ski community that we are a part
of. That is true in Europe as well.
So, this is not about shutting down BD SLC as a manufacturing facility,
to the contrary we have expanded our SLC facility this past year by 50
employees and we are fully maxed out, even with two full shifts. It's
about the right products in the right places with the right skill sets
and expertise, all by BD employees. We view this expansion very much as
an extension of what we are already doing. The processes, materials,
quality assurance are all the same. It's still Black Diamond.
Over the past year we have been assembling a large percentage of our ice
tools at BD China. Technical tools are done at both facilities currently
though they may shift fully to BD Asia. In addition, we are assembling
ATCs there and plan to slowly shift C3s there over time as well as some
other products. Many products will remain here while some will be done
at both facilities in future years. It is a work-in-process. It's
"generally"labor intensive assembly that is done at BD China. Quality
assurance is performed both in Salt Lake City and Asia by BD employees.
Regardless, it's still BD, and still being made by BD.
Finally you should be aware that the majority of our competitors are
having climbing hardware products made for them at OEM facilities in
Taiwan and China but they neither control nor manage these and most seem
to avoid country of origin labels by bringing the goods in via Europe or
claiming them as "sub-assemblies" (i.e. two carabiners that are clipped
to a draw are a sub-assembly and hence don't say they are made in China,
Taiwan or wherever and you are left thinking they are made in Europe).
As stated~WBD is proud to have created our own ISO-certified, owned,
staffed, managed and trained operation in Asia. Our customers are the
big beneficiaries here.
Thanks for the opportunity to state the facts,
THE EMPLOYEE OWNERS OF BLACK DIAMOND EQUIPMENT
Peter Metcalf
CEO/Co-Founder
(This post was edited by sthcrag510 on Oct 12, 2007, 6:16 PM)
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eastvillage
Oct 12, 2007, 6:27 PM
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Everyone should check the controversy that has been raging regarding this over on Mountain Project:
http://www.mountainproject.com/v/climbing_gear_discussion/black_diamond_gear_protection_made_in_china/106015512
BD is full of it.
EMS in NYC has the same new China cams, they are probably all from China now.
The BD CEO has a long winded defense about what they are doing.
Basically, BD is happy to keep prices the same as ever, while killing off US manufacturing and they are proud of it. I wonder if the BD CEO will be calling Chinese cops or the Chinese military to protect him if some bad guy comes after him.
(This post was edited by eastvillage on Oct 12, 2007, 6:36 PM)
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jeff_m
Oct 12, 2007, 6:49 PM
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Yep, it's officially Friday...
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sgauss
Oct 12, 2007, 6:50 PM
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eastvillage wrote: Everyone should check the controversy that has been raging regarding this over on Mountain Project: http://www.mountainproject.com/v/climbing_gear_discussion/black_diamond_gear_protection_made_in_china/106015512 BD is full of it. EMS in NYC has the same new China cams, they are probably all from China now. The BD CEO has a long winded defense about what they are doing. Basically, BD is happy to keep prices the same as ever, while killing off US manufacturing and they are proud of it. I wonder if the BD CEO will be calling Chinese cops or the Chinese military to protect him if some bad guy comes after him.
Okay, Mr. Principles, let's have a list of manufacturers and retailers you're boycotting these days because they don't do everything in America.
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docjacen
Oct 12, 2007, 7:47 PM
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oooh,yeah, I'm gonna not ever buy any more BD because chinese people make it and I'm sure they want me to die.
and I'm not gonna buy any more OP because inmates and convicted felons make it and I'm sure they want me to die.
and I'm not gonna buy any more DMM cause the Brits make it and they want me to die.
And any German and Italian and Hungarian and Austrian companies, well, we had a war with them this one time, and I'm sure they want me to die too. Looks like I'll be using only HOME MADE gear. Retarded thread.
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Gmburns2000
Oct 12, 2007, 7:49 PM
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eastvillage wrote: Everyone should check the controversy that has been raging regarding this over on Mountain Project: http://www.mountainproject.com/v/climbing_gear_discussion/black_diamond_gear_protection_made_in_china/106015512 BD is full of it. EMS in NYC has the same new China cams, they are probably all from China now. The BD CEO has a long winded defense about what they are doing. Basically, BD is happy to keep prices the same as ever, while killing off US manufacturing and they are proud of it. I wonder if the BD CEO will be calling Chinese cops or the Chinese military to protect him if some bad guy comes after him.
I'm not sure the original issue was about the killing of American manufacturing. I think the question was within the context of the various, recent recalls from China; most notably from the recall of toys with too much lead in them, among other items.
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AZrockclimber1988
Oct 12, 2007, 8:06 PM
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Gmburns2000 wrote: eastvillage wrote: Everyone should check the controversy that has been raging regarding this over on Mountain Project: http://www.mountainproject.com/v/climbing_gear_discussion/black_diamond_gear_protection_made_in_china/106015512 BD is full of it. EMS in NYC has the same new China cams, they are probably all from China now. The BD CEO has a long winded defense about what they are doing. Basically, BD is happy to keep prices the same as ever, while killing off US manufacturing and they are proud of it. I wonder if the BD CEO will be calling Chinese cops or the Chinese military to protect him if some bad guy comes after him. I'm not sure the original issue was about the killing of American manufacturing. I think the question was within the context of the various, recent recalls from China; most notably from the recall of toys with too much lead in them, among other items.
I guess we all are going to be sand bagging ourselfs with them lead cams.
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dylan1
Oct 12, 2007, 8:33 PM
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If the factory is maxed out, why not expand or build another facility in SLC to increase production or has manufacturing been moved to increase profits. If it a lot cheaper to make them overseas, lower the price.
That is a big problem in America, corporations send jobs to s.e. asia forcing people to work jobs without benefits or decent pay by eliminating blue collar skilled jobs unless you can afford to go to a university
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omalavet
Oct 12, 2007, 8:46 PM
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everything you use in usa is made in china... you gringo guys think... that only the usa stuf works... usa is no the only country in the world dude.... get out there
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