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CaptainPolution
Mar 13, 2008, 6:54 AM
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Just need to make sure this is correct before I try and use protection on a real climb. Do I need the whole cam in the crack or can it just be part of it?
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norushnomore
Mar 13, 2008, 8:07 AM
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Dude, that's a hard one. We gonna need some big guns like Majit or JT to help you here
All I can say is you are on the right track: cam goes into crack and part of it being in is a good start 
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grover
Mar 13, 2008, 8:08 AM
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Minimalism is in these days.
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bobruef
Mar 13, 2008, 10:08 AM
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Hey, is that one of those "NOT SUITABLE FOR CLIMBING" little pieces. I think you have to use a real cam when you're leading. That would be a good start.
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socalclimber
Mar 13, 2008, 10:53 AM
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Like, totaly bomber dude!
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chossmonkey
Mar 13, 2008, 11:26 AM
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socalclimber wrote: Like, totaly bomber dude!
Its an Alien!!!
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swaghole
Mar 13, 2008, 11:27 AM
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Troll?? That might hold you water bottle. Not much more.
Here's a good link just in case you are serious
http://www.bdel.com/...Cam%20Info%20Tag.pdf
Look at illustration 10 and 11 in the PDF above - that's exactly what you are doing and it's bad.
(This post was edited by swaghole on Mar 13, 2008, 11:32 AM)
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bizarrodrinker
Mar 13, 2008, 12:16 PM
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swaghole wrote: Troll?? That might hold you water bottle. Not much more. Here's a good link just in case you are serious http://www.bdel.com/...Cam%20Info%20Tag.pdf Look at illustration 10 and 11 in the PDF above - that's exactly what you are doing and it's bad.
Full or empty?
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blueeyedclimber
Mar 13, 2008, 12:54 PM
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It's fine as long as you back it up with another cam. Just remember, though, that the backup cam must be opposite and opposed and tied together with a munter-mule knot. Remember SERENE. That means you must be plenty calm when placing it. No need to get hysterical!
Josh
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bobruef
Mar 13, 2008, 1:03 PM
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I think that piece of gear is meant to function as a load limiter device... like a screamer 
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j_ung
Mar 13, 2008, 1:07 PM
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TROLL STATUS: Failed
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swaghole
Mar 13, 2008, 1:43 PM
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Doesn't matter. This Alien cam will break before it pull, won't it??
Please don't flame me!
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binrat
Mar 13, 2008, 1:54 PM
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chossmonkey wrote: socalclimber wrote: Like, totaly bomber dude! Are you kidding!!! Its an Alien!!!
Chossy
Thats totally bomber..................for a chipmunk
binrat
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markc
Mar 13, 2008, 2:15 PM
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Anybody remember the Splitter Gear 4cams? IIRC, they could be placed with only two lobes engaged. I recall seeing a video for another cam which had loops for clipping into one pair of lobes or the other. Clipping the main sling engaged both.
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shoo
Mar 13, 2008, 2:29 PM
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markc wrote: Anybody remember the Splitter Gear 4cams? IIRC, they could be placed with only two lobes engaged. I recall seeing a video for another cam which had loops for clipping into one pair of lobes or the other. Clipping the main sling engaged both.
That would be the totem cams, and as far as I know, they aren't commercially available.
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cchas
Mar 13, 2008, 2:33 PM
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Looks totally bomber to me, but to be sure, you should fall test it. I suggest going about 10ft above it and taking a good winger.
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markc
Mar 13, 2008, 2:41 PM
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shoo wrote: markc wrote: Anybody remember the Splitter Gear 4cams? IIRC, they could be placed with only two lobes engaged. I recall seeing a video for another cam which had loops for clipping into one pair of lobes or the other. Clipping the main sling engaged both. That would be the totem cams, and as far as I know, they aren't commercially available.
Thanks! Here's the product site. They do some light bounce testing in the video. It would be interesting to see how they hold up in similar placements in an actual fall.
Edit: I found a brief interview on Spadout from March of last year. They were anticipating releasing these last fall.
(This post was edited by markc on Mar 13, 2008, 2:46 PM)
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dingus
Mar 13, 2008, 3:38 PM
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C3. It gets worse.
DMT
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majid_sabet
Mar 13, 2008, 4:21 PM
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CaptainPolution wrote: Just need to make sure this is correct before I try and use protection on a real climb. Do I need the whole cam in the crack or can it just be part of it? [image]http://www.rockclimbing.com/images/photos/assets/9/370849-largest_cossumnes_007.jpg[/image]
Do not listen to these n00bs. Placing upward copper head works fine just hammer it little more to jam it in to the crack.
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CaptainPolution
Mar 13, 2008, 7:27 PM
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swaghole wrote: Doesn't matter. This Alien cam will break before it pull, won't it?? Please don't flame me!
actually all of my aliens have been whip tested except for my new gray one. no failing for me! :):):):)
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cchildre
Mar 13, 2008, 8:15 PM
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The problem will appear due to the irregular forces being applied here. That cam was designed to have the force divided between the four lobes. Loading one side, as seen in the photo, can result in the primary axle rotating down toward the pulling force, and the more the stem bends the more irregular the force. Presenting the possibility the axle breaks, or the cam lobes shearing off the end.
Here is a weightlifting example: A lifter grips the bar (axle) of a dumbell in the central area to perform say a 50 pound curl with relative ease. Now imagine if we moved all the 50 pounds of weight to one end of the bar and asked that same lifter to perform the same curl using the same grip point and bar orientation. Decidely more difficult. Further, rotating the weighted end toward the floor causes the weights to slide off the end if they are unsecured, reguardless, it is a demonstration of the shearing force that is generated.
The ends of the axle are pressed to flare, or have clips, or whatever so as to keep the lobes from slipping off the end. Never-the-less, they were not intended to withstand the sort of forces generated during a fall. Hope this makes some sense.
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ja1484
Mar 13, 2008, 8:46 PM
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Knew there was a reason I killfiled this dingus.
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markc
Mar 13, 2008, 8:55 PM
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CaptainPolution wrote: j_ung wrote: TROLL STATUS: Failed it wasnt a complete failure. there are some serious answers, sadly.
Well don't blame me. I went off on a tangent, but very few followed.
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