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Valarc
May 20, 2008, 4:02 PM
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shockabuku wrote: Adrian_Falcus wrote: I imagine the most obvious reason is that you have no right to simply kill a creature for no discernible reason. The snake bit you because the snake obviously felt threatened, big deal. Your life, or any other humans for that matter, is not more important than the life of any other creature. So then apparently it's okay to kill snakes if you feel threatened by them? That's the obvious conclusion from your statement.
AGREED!
I will kill any stupid animal that I feel threatens me in any way. The snake isn't going to argue with the other snakes about the responsible thing to do, it's just going to bite the shit out of me.
I am allergic to hornets - if hornets build a nest within a thousand yards of my house I will douse that motherfucker in gasoline and kill every last one of those bastards. If a copperhead crosses my path it's shovel-bait.
But even more than that - I will kill animals to serve my own purposes. I will gladly kill a rabbit to eat it, and if I'm not in the mood to eat it, I will kill it for its fur. And maybe I might just kill it because the little asshole keeps eating the strawberries in my garden. I will kill a thousand animals if it ensures my survival in any way, shape, or form.
And you know what? I consider myself an environmentalist. I try to limit my consumption of mass produced goods, I recycle and use compact fluorescent light bulbs. I generally try to not contribute to the wholesale raping of our environment which goes on daily.
But if it comes down to it, I will gleefully take the life of any creature that I feel inhibits my quality of life in any way, shape, or form. I'd rather murder a hundred cute little kitties than spew thousands of tons of CO2 into my environment. Anything that isn't on the verge of extinction is fair game.
Edit: I will also PTFTW the hell out of anyone who disagrees with me
(This post was edited by Valarc on May 20, 2008, 4:05 PM)
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snowboardercolo
May 20, 2008, 4:16 PM
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I see an easy solution here! 
"my cat won't stop peeing in my basement. "
Take your cat for a walk in the canyon and then defend your property/pet with a 12 gauge. Two or three trips through the canyon should pretty much clean it out?
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j_ung
May 20, 2008, 6:49 PM
Post #53 of 89
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Johnny_Fang wrote: I've read that over the last couple of dozen years or so, rattlesnakes have become less prone to rattling. I guess that people are more likely to find and kill a rattling rattlesnake than one sitting quietly under the brush or in a rock that they never see. So those that are genetically less prone to rattling before they strike are surviving, while those genetically prone to warn us first are being killed off. The irony is that, in our attempt to make things safer, humans have unintentionlly bred a more dangerous, stealthy snake. So. That's a reason to not kill rattlers.
I can't speak to the veracity of your cause and effect, but I certainly have thought before that rattlers seem to rattle a lot less than they used to.
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shanz
May 20, 2008, 9:27 PM
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yet another post that has digressed into an "I am smarter than you" post. how sad 
good thing i graduated college now i can be dumb again
(This post was edited by shanz on May 20, 2008, 9:29 PM)
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chadcummings
May 20, 2008, 10:29 PM
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i didn't state that but i did try to imply that the king snake and bull snake are better for the control and harmless to humans, pets, and live stock.
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knieveltech
May 20, 2008, 10:58 PM
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Adrian_Falcus wrote: I imagine the most obvious reason is that you have no right to simply kill a creature for no discernible reason. The snake bit you because the snake obviously felt threatened, big deal. Your life, or any other humans for that matter, is not more important than the life of any other creature.
People be people. Food be food. Only very silly people get the two confused.
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crimpandgo
May 20, 2008, 11:29 PM
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chadcummings wrote: i didn't state that but i did try to imply that the king snake and bull snake are better for the control and harmless to humans, pets, and live stock.
Interestingly enough, the kingsnake is one of the few threats to the rattlesnake as well. They perform there own rattlesnake control.
You must be a little careful to say other snakes are better than the rattler at control. nature has a way of balancing itself. If the rattler didn't have a purpose it would not survive very long. You wont really know til you succeed at killing all of them off now will you?
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jon06
May 20, 2008, 11:33 PM
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Valarc wrote: shockabuku wrote: Adrian_Falcus wrote: I imagine the most obvious reason is that you have no right to simply kill a creature for no discernible reason. The snake bit you because the snake obviously felt threatened, big deal. Your life, or any other humans for that matter, is not more important than the life of any other creature. So then apparently it's okay to kill snakes if you feel threatened by them? That's the obvious conclusion from your statement. AGREED! I will kill any stupid animal that I feel threatens me in any way. The snake isn't going to argue with the other snakes about the responsible thing to do, it's just going to bite the shit out of me. I am allergic to hornets - if hornets build a nest within a thousand yards of my house I will douse that motherfucker in gasoline and kill every last one of those bastards. If a copperhead crosses my path it's shovel-bait. But even more than that - I will kill animals to serve my own purposes. I will gladly kill a rabbit to eat it, and if I'm not in the mood to eat it, I will kill it for its fur. And maybe I might just kill it because the little asshole keeps eating the strawberries in my garden. I will kill a thousand animals if it ensures my survival in any way, shape, or form. And you know what? I consider myself an environmentalist. I try to limit my consumption of mass produced goods, I recycle and use compact fluorescent light bulbs. I generally try to not contribute to the wholesale raping of our environment which goes on daily. But if it comes down to it, I will gleefully take the life of any creature that I feel inhibits my quality of life in any way, shape, or form. I'd rather murder a hundred cute little kitties than spew thousands of tons of CO2 into my environment. Anything that isn't on the verge of extinction is fair game. Edit: I will also PTFTW the hell out of anyone who disagrees with me
The other day I walk up to a boulder at one of my local spots. As the base of the problem comes into view I notice a five foot rattler at the base. She immediately moved back into a nook. We bouldered for about fifteen minutes wither her about three feet way. Then we walked away. Sure I was cautious, but I never felt threatened.
If you're killing something for a purpose, like for food or if it is genuinely threatening you're life. I have no problem with that.
Unfortunately, you and our other Darwin award hopeful have no real reason for killing venomous snakes, other then what you perceive as a threat to yourself. If your going around killing snakes you have a far greater chance of being bitten then if you leave them alone.
Its like planes and cars. Most people are far more afraid of flying then driving even though flying is statistically safer then driving. Go figure.
Would you really like to be rid of venomous snakes from you're neck of the woods. How about the world?
You are a shitty environmentalist.
(This post was edited by jon06 on May 20, 2008, 11:42 PM)
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drljefe
May 21, 2008, 1:00 AM
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jeeez loouise- I just wanted to show this amazing shot of a rattlesnake I got recently. Nobody seemed to notice...Waaaaaaaaaaa
Crazy how this thread morphed first into a debate on semantics and then to whatever it is now.
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Valarc
May 21, 2008, 1:58 AM
Post #61 of 89
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jon06 wrote: You are a shitty environmentalist.
No, I'm just not naive enough to think the "senseless killing" of a few animals that cross my path is going to have any impact on the environment.
I guess the usual image one connects with environmentalism is delusional fanatics who base opinions more on knee-jerk gut reactions than any practical sense of reality. In that sense, I am indeed a shitty environmentalist.
Also note, in your knee-jerk hippie response, you assume I want to remove all poisonous snakes from the world. I never said such a thing. I am a big fan of protecting our wilderness and not letting suburbia swallow up all of the natural surroundings. But I will damn sure kill any dangerous critter that comes anywhere near my home or in general if it crosses my path. And I might kill a couple of completely harmless ones, just to spite dirtfeet like yourself.
And you know what? The environment will go on just fine. You wankers need to wake up to the reality that some guy with a shovel chopping off a snake's head is of minuscule importance compared to the real problems in the world. You've probably killed more animals typing out your very indignant reply, on your expensive computer manufactured from hazardous chemicals, using power from a dirty grid that spews out toxic fumes at a rate that would make my ass after a chili cookoff envious, than I will ever kill, even if I dedicate my life to it.
My ancestors didn't scratch and claw their way to the top of the food chain for me to sit back and let some slithering fucker take me out because I believed some hippie bullshit that "nature is in harmony" and "the snake just wants to be left alone".
I'm the one seeking the darwin award? Hardly.
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Valarc
May 21, 2008, 2:00 AM
Post #62 of 89
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drljefe wrote: jeeez loouise- I just wanted to show this amazing shot of a rattlesnake I got recently. Nobody seemed to notice...Waaaaaaaaaaa Crazy how this thread morphed first into a debate on semantics and then to whatever it is now.
I actually loved the picture. I sure as hell wouldn't have stood around long enough to snap that - even a snake-bashing, woman-pleasing, killing machine such as myself knows when he's outnumbered.
Edit - just realized you were talking about a picture later in the thread and not the original snake orgy shot. My bad. I was a little distracted by all the baby seals I have to club.
(This post was edited by Valarc on May 21, 2008, 2:04 AM)
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drljefe
May 21, 2008, 2:06 AM
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dude, you're gnarly.
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clausti
May 21, 2008, 3:03 AM
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chadcummings
May 21, 2008, 3:29 AM
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was that your finger by chance?
ironic thing is that its more likely that one of you pro-life snake lovers will get struck by one long before i do.
and who said that rattlers were not rattling as much?
what area and what type of rattle snake? eastern, pigmy, what?
now don't take what i said wrong i'm not wanting anyone to get bit by anything
just you got to learn that shit like this is different for every person. I'm fine with how i am, i'm not going to change. I know what i say won't change how you feel. doesn't make a fuck if its about this or someother bullshit topic. Everyones view is different.
i do alot of things worthy of a darwin, but i guess i know enough to avoid getting one.
edit; just noticed that snake has been de-fanged which kills them by starving them. cant brake down the food.
(This post was edited by chadcummings on May 21, 2008, 3:56 AM)
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Adrian_Falcus
May 21, 2008, 5:06 AM
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shockabuku wrote: Adrian_Falcus wrote: shockabuku wrote: Adrian_Falcus wrote: I imagine the most obvious reason is that you have no right to simply kill a creature for no discernible reason. The snake bit you because the snake obviously felt threatened, big deal. Your life, or any other humans for that matter, is not more important than the life of any other creature. So then apparently it's okay to kill snakes if you feel threatened by them? That's the obvious conclusion from your statement. Incorrect. You misinterpreted for your own conclusions. A snake would lack the capacity to understand that (in most cases) the human is not attempting to kill the snake. There is a difference between feeling threatened and being attacked. As with many other creatures in the animal kingdom, it is often kill or be killed. There is a difference between defending yourself and rounding up animals to be killed. You're so deep in your own hole that you can't see out. First, I wasn't talking about a round-up, second, most of the world disagrees with you about the relative value of human life vs. other life forms. Go to the grocery store, you can see that.
The reason I brought up the round up comment was due to the fact that I wasn't initially talking to you, and my comments were towards chadcummings. You interjected your own comments so that would be where the confusion came from.
As for the second part, it really makes no difference what the majority of the world comes to a consensus on when speaking about my individual point. I don't plan on compromising my views either way. It's a moot point. This is really just going in circles, as you and a few others are really just continually missing my points. Feel free to respond but please do not anticipate a response.
But, the jokes on me anyway. I should have known better than to attempt to rationally arguing anything on this site.
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Adrian_Falcus
May 21, 2008, 5:09 AM
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knieveltech wrote: Adrian_Falcus wrote: I imagine the most obvious reason is that you have no right to simply kill a creature for no discernible reason. The snake bit you because the snake obviously felt threatened, big deal. Your life, or any other humans for that matter, is not more important than the life of any other creature. People be people. Food be food. Only very silly people get the two confused.
Color me silly then, and adopt a modest proposal. I have yet to hear anyone give me a rational reason for why human life takes precedent over other creatures aside from "duhh, only teh retards hippys likes animals better!"
I would honestly love to hear some rational opinions on the matter.
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clausti
May 21, 2008, 12:43 PM
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Adrian_Falcus wrote: knieveltech wrote: Adrian_Falcus wrote: I imagine the most obvious reason is that you have no right to simply kill a creature for no discernible reason. The snake bit you because the snake obviously felt threatened, big deal. Your life, or any other humans for that matter, is not more important than the life of any other creature. People be people. Food be food. Only very silly people get the two confused. Color me silly then, and adopt a modest proposal. I have yet to hear anyone give me a rational reason for why human life takes precedent over other creatures aside from "duhh, only teh retards hippys likes animals better!" I would honestly love to hear some rational opinions on the matter.
geez, dude.
the rational opinion is that if something is going to kill you, and you'd rather not die, you kill it. otherwise, you adhere to the higher moral good of not hurting other creatures.
obviously this is not the stone tablets- if you see a breeding pair of copperheads in the backyard where you 2 year old plays, you should probably get rid of it. (move far away/kill it).
i dont think that saying "you shouldn't go out of your way to kill something that isn't at the moment harming you" is tantamount to a judgment on the worthiness of respective lives. and besides, who judges "worth" of someone's life? each person is "worth" a diff amount to diff people. in the abstract, some people are worth more than a rattlesnake to me, some less. luckily i dont have to walk around putting that value judgment into practice.
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knieveltech
May 21, 2008, 12:43 PM
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Adrian_Falcus wrote: I would honestly love to hear some rational opinions on the matter.
I don't believe you would, actually. If human life isn't inherently precious to you above all other considerations then you are clearly suffering from profound mental/emotional problems. Seek therapy.
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Adrian_Falcus
May 21, 2008, 2:44 PM
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knieveltech wrote: Adrian_Falcus wrote: I would honestly love to hear some rational opinions on the matter. I don't believe you would, actually. If human life isn't inherently precious to you above all other considerations then you are clearly suffering from profound mental/emotional problems. Seek therapy.
So do you have an answer for me then? I assure you I'm not trolling here. I'm pretty content and happy with myself thank you. And once again if that's your position on this issue, you can feel free to call me whatever you wish to make yourself feel comfortable in your justification, but please don't hide behind the facade that you have actually answered the question. Danke Schoen!
(This post was edited by Adrian_Falcus on May 21, 2008, 3:02 PM)
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Adrian_Falcus
May 21, 2008, 3:01 PM
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clausti wrote: geez, dude. the rational opinion is that if something is going to kill you, and you'd rather not die, you kill it. otherwise, you adhere to the higher moral good of not hurting other creatures.
That's not what I'm really getting at here. I'm speaking in a broad general sense now, and looking for reasoning why in the grand scheme of things a human has more right to live on this planet than a snake or any other creature.
Of course the survival of the fittest rule takes precedent with humans as with any other animal, we are not exempt. I am not dreaming of some harmonious utopia where all creatures get along. Nature is cruel, harsh and unforgiving.
In reply to: i dont think that saying "you shouldn't go out of your way to kill something that isn't at the moment harming you" is tantamount to a judgment on the worthiness of respective lives.
Perhaps, but I suppose I have deviated from the original point to bring up mine. I was merely curious to some opinions, and of course stirring the pot a little helps at times.
In reply to: and besides, who judges "worth" of someone's life? each person is "worth" a diff amount to diff people. in the abstract, some people are worth more than a rattlesnake to me, some less. luckily i dont have to walk around putting that value judgment into practice.
Correct, who does judge the worth of any life? In a general sense I do not believe one persons life holds more value over another's. But who am I to say that I do not value to lives of loved one's over that of strangers? After all, I am only human. 
I realize that it seems quite easy, and widely accepted to simply dismiss the argument I have submitted as "insane." This is not a deterrent for me though, sorry. This is merely an attempt to engage a few people in a discussion, one that I have had many times in the past few years with many groups of people. I am encouraging people to not only think outside of the box, but outside of their perceptions of reality as well. Please do not confuse my statements as some radical eco-terrorist attempting to convert a few new elves for his army.
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knieveltech
May 21, 2008, 3:11 PM
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Adrian_Falcus wrote: knieveltech wrote: Adrian_Falcus wrote: I would honestly love to hear some rational opinions on the matter. I don't believe you would, actually. If human life isn't inherently precious to you above all other considerations then you are clearly suffering from profound mental/emotional problems. Seek therapy. So do you have an answer for me then? I assure you I'm not trolling here. I'm pretty content and happy with myself thank you. And once again if that's your position on this issue, you can feel free to call me whatever you wish to make yourself feel comfortable in your justification, but please don't hide behind the facade that you have actually answered the question. Danke Schoen!
On second though, nevermind.
(This post was edited by knieveltech on May 21, 2008, 3:12 PM)
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stymingersfink
May 21, 2008, 3:57 PM
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knieveltech wrote: Adrian_Falcus wrote: I would honestly love to hear some rational opinions on the matter. I don't believe you would, actually. If human life isn't inherently precious to you above all other considerations then you are clearly suffering from profound mental/emotional problems. Seek therapy.
THere's a lotta fuckers out there I'd rather see dead than a single rattlesnake. You probably feel the same way too, whether you admit/realize it or not.
We'll start with the mother-killers and father-rapers, move on to the mother-rapers and father-killers. Where it goes from there, IDC, but you see my point. Some people should be killed for the good of the human race, the only reason they're still alive is 'cause it's against the law to kill 'em.
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shockabuku
May 21, 2008, 4:03 PM
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Adrian_Falcus wrote: I should have known better than to attempt to rationally arguing anything on this site.
Yep, I can't contest that statement.
Adrian_Falcus wrote: knieveltech wrote: Adrian_Falcus wrote: I imagine the most obvious reason is that you have no right to simply kill a creature for no discernible reason. The snake bit you because the snake obviously felt threatened, big deal. Your life, or any other humans for that matter, is not more important than the life of any other creature. People be people. Food be food. Only very silly people get the two confused. Color me silly then, and adopt a modest proposal. I have yet to hear anyone give me a rational reason for why human life takes precedent over other creatures aside from "duhh, only teh retards hippys likes animals better!" I would honestly love to hear some rational opinions on the matter.
Here's the answer: because I get to decide. I decide whether or not to kill the snake (or at least try) or to leave it alone. Because I can. That's nature. It's (somewhat) random. I get to use my biases, my own sometimes good, sometimes faulty decision making, etc. to decide on life and death. It's beautiful, it's horrible, it's life. No other reason. Nothing has any "value" outside of what it's given. If I assign no value to the snake life, well, it gets none.
You, on the other hand, get to make the same decisions with your own outcome.
I don't like people overly much, but I don't really "like" snakes at all. So, if I see a reasonable situation/reason to kill the snake, I will (even though I generally don't). There are some people I might treat the same way if there wasn't the threat of going to jail.
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JTree Nov Apr 162.jpg
